40S&W Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 Why doesn't USPSA eliminate major and just go to one minor load 125+ PF. Eliminate the gaming & the sky is the limit for the best guns & equipment and start putting an emphasis on accuracy & less on speed and gaming the system. No extra points regardless of your power factor. You want to shoot a higher power factor that's your choice and you should not get any extra consideration. Also they should look at requiring that a club run at least one full classifier match per year. I think this would bring more shooters to this sport. IMHO I think that the way things are presently going there will be a decline in membership and clubs offering USPSA/IPSC matches. What do you THINK! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leas327 Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 Going to one power factor won't stop gaming. It will never stop because it is a game and people will do anything to win. If you are shooting matches chances are you are a competitive person too. All you need is two people and a timer and one person will think of some little trick to win. I am a noob to this sport but I have seen a few GM's and M's shoot. An A zone counts the same shooting minor or major and to beat those guys you had to shoot A's real fast. I like that production is set up all minor with a 10 round limit. I feel that division is one that really puts factory guns to the test. Minor in open won't change anything except how many ports are on the comp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a.roberts Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 So DC? Terrible idea IMO. Two-legged stools don't stand so well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 I THINK you are a little skewed on your thought process. First off, you don't compete with anyone outside your division. Hell, you really don't even compete outside your class within said division. Gaming comes with experience NOT from equipment. Production was a great place to start for me but I soon got tired of changing mags with every step I took. I decided to move to a different division where I typically only reload once per stage. That is just me. I like shooting more than I like the "real world" aspect of it. Being able to shoot a stage a certain way because I have 29 rounds in a mag is not gaming it is maximizing the equipment I use. Gaming is more about finding a way to shoot a stage faster than the next guy regardless of what division. Now I get to shoot Open against a lot of really fast shooters so I have actually gone way down in match standings. That is how competition works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raz-0 Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 I think you are looking for the "heads up, why did we ever even introduce limited" curmudgeons. Except you'd have to argue with them that the one true power factor is 125 rather than 175. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
40S&W Posted July 23, 2011 Author Share Posted July 23, 2011 I'm not saying change any divisions, just do away with major power factor. Shoot whatever division you want, no cosideration because of power factor. You can still shoot open with 30 round mags, you just don't get extra consideration for higher power factor, same goes for any other division where you now have a major of minor scoring consideration. Just meet the minimum PF of 125. If you want to shoot 175 PF fine; your just not going to be given extra consideration when it comes to points. My 9mm open gun & 29 round mags functions just fine at 129 PF so do my 9mm SS & Production gun. Much lower power factors are available for 40 S&W & 45 ACP to make them competitive with 9mm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeorgeInNePa Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 Why doesn't USPSA eliminate major and just go to one minor load 125+ PF. Eliminate the gaming & the sky is the limit for the best guns & equipment and start putting an emphasis on accuracy & less on speed and gaming the system. No extra points regardless of your power factor. You want to shoot a higher power factor that's your choice and you should not get any extra consideration. Also they should look at requiring that a club run at least one full classifier match per year. I think this would bring more shooters to this sport. IMHO I think that the way things are presently going there will be a decline in membership and clubs offering USPSA/IPSC matches. What do you THINK! Learn how to shoot and learn how to read a stage. Stop worrying about everyone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluenite Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 D V C D V C D V C D V C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waktasz Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 (edited) I'm not sure what gaming has to do with it. Are you saying people are cheating by declaring major but not making PF? If you lower the PF the same people will do the same thing, only at minor. You could also go shoot IDPA or steel or any of the other sports without a power factor. You will have better luck doing those things than you will have changing a rule in USPSA that would make obsolete basically every current Limited gun today. I also don't know why you are saying major/minor scoring is sending people away from the sport. Can you explain that part? Edited July 23, 2011 by waktasz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Miles Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 Why doesn't USPSA eliminate major and just go to one minor load 125+ PF. Eliminate the gaming & the sky is the limit for the best guns & equipment and start putting an emphasis on accuracy & less on speed and gaming the system. No extra points regardless of your power factor. You want to shoot a higher power factor that's your choice and you should not get any extra consideration. Also they should look at requiring that a club run at least one full classifier match per year. I think this would bring more shooters to this sport. IMHO I think that the way things are presently going there will be a decline in membership and clubs offering USPSA/IPSC matches. What do you THINK! I'm at a loss trying to link power factors to gaming. I am at even more of a loss trying to figure out why gaming is a bad thing. There are shooters who can look at a stage or situation and find a better, quicker solution to the challenge. Why should they be chastised or looked down upon. Let's not look at gaming as cheating which is easy for some folks to do. Heck, let's do away with 170mm magazines, comps, lightened slides, Ghost holsters. If and when this happens we'll all be shooting squirt guns loaded with soft water. We don't need to become our own worst enemy. Pat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jman Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 Eliminate gaming? Isn't that a shooting range? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
40S&W Posted July 23, 2011 Author Share Posted July 23, 2011 The point seems to be missed. No extra consideration for POWER FACTOR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singlestack Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 The point seems to be missed. No extra consideration for POWER FACTOR. I get it! You bought a 9mm Open gun that you are having trouble making Major with and your getting beat by guys who can make major. My 9mm open gun & 29 round mags functions just fine at 129 PF so do my 9mm SS & Production gun. Much lower power factors are available for 40 S&W & 45 ACP to make them competitive with 9mm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EkuJustice Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 Eliminate the PF and you have ALOT of guns obsolete overnight. Eliminate the pf and the 40 cal is obsolete for limited. On the same level as a 9mm im going 9mm with the extra rounds over a 40 with less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Keen Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 i think Singlestack hit the nail on the head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 The point seems to be missed. No extra consideration for POWER FACTOR. Those shooting major power factor ammunition should be rewarded for shooting fast and accurately. DVC. Three legs on this stool and that is the way we like it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inkman Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 I think we should also eliminate anybody under the age of 40 from competing. It's just not fair that those younger ladies and gents who are in better shape than me and have better eyesight should be able to go up against us older, slower guys Al Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inkman Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 Yes.....i'm just joking, but eliminating PF is no different that setting up stages geared to one specific set of skills. Just go out there, shoot and have some fun with probably the best friends you'll ever make participating in a sport together. Al Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juan Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 your backwards major is not rewarded but minor is penalized Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 I think this would bring more shooters to this sport. IMHO I think that the way things are presently going there will be a decline in membership and clubs offering USPSA/IPSC matches. I think your thoughts don't match the realities of membership growth and participation in USPSA during the last decade, both nationally and on the local level.... The game is growing..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Stevens Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 i think Singlestack hit the nail on the head. Well thank you:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lensman Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 I think we should also eliminate anybody under the age of 40 from competing. It's just not fair that those younger ladies and gents who are in better shape than me and have better eyesight should be able to go up against us older, slower guys Al I like this idea! My poor old knees! But, never give up, never surrender. I'll keep shooting as long as I can. And until they run out of calendars to time me with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schutzenmeister Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 I think we should also eliminate anybody under the age of 40 from competing. It's just not fair that those younger ladies and gents who are in better shape than me and have better eyesight should be able to go up against us older, slower guys Al I like this idea! My poor old knees! But, never give up, never surrender. I'll keep shooting as long as I can. And until they run out of calendars to time me with. Calendars? You're still too fast. Heck, of late they time me with Carbon-14 dating! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singlestack Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 i think Singlestack hit the nail on the head. Well thank you:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HI5-O Posted July 23, 2011 Share Posted July 23, 2011 Not a good idea. Figuring out a better way to shoot a stage than someone else is gaming? If I wanted to shoot every stage the same way as other shooters I would be in a different shooting sport "I..." . It (this idea) is like trying to "level the field of competition" for everyone. That's like trying to make a newcomer (to any sport) equal with those who have invested time/money/sweat learning how to get better. I'm glad USPSA/IPSC has different divisions and major/minor scoring, it gives me and everyone choices on what they like or the equipment they already have. This is why when I spend my money to travel to major matches I will choose to shoot in the Open division. At home we have to shoot 10 round everything (except rifle/shotgun) Also, I don't believe this idea will bring in more shooters to the sport. Most of the new guys I've seen coming in already have some type of pistol that will qualify for a or multiple divisions. Another thing is if everyone were to download their .40's to make minor, there is an added risk of double charging their minor loads and blowing up. Majority of reloaders I know are very careful but I have seen guns damaged due to poor reloads. Just my thoughts, thanks for letting me express them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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