BillChunn Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 OK, here was the situation. Shot a match at a club that does not have a large support staff (like any of us really do). The match must be setup, shot and tore down within a few hours as the facility is a retail business, so time is of the essence. There were some obvioius new shooters at the match. When they were reloading their finger was on the trigger. No, not laying outside the trigger guard, not along the side of the weapon but first knuckle deep on the trigger, as in half of the finger could not be seen. This is not my club and for those shooters, I was not the range officer, just a competitor on another squad that saw the situation. What does the collective expertise of the Forum recommend on how to pass along safety violation information to the new shooter? Do you tell the guy that he "broke" one of our rules? How do you do that without coming off as an a$$hole and chasing him away? In one instance, it was a father and son. Both were doing the same thing during their reloads, turn the gun sideways to see the magazine well and then inserting the fresh mag with their finger on the trigger. Handling this, especially in front of the kid, was causing some concern on my part. I didn't want to embarrass the father but they both have to learn safe firearms handling under match conditions. Actually, let me rephrase that. They have to learn firearms handling under any and all conditions. Suggestions? HH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbbean Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 Option one: Pull the RO aside and tell him he might want to have a word with the shooters. Option two: Pull the father aside and tell him that "I'm not the RO, and everything's worked out today, but I noticed that when you and your son do your reloads, your fingers look like they're on the trigger. At most matches, the RO would catch that and you could be disqualified. You should probably get in the habit of taking your finger off the trigger when you move or reload." It's been my experience that 90% of new shooters (and ROs, for that matter) are pretty receptive to these sort of observations if you're discrete about it and do it in a non-confrontational manner. The other 10% are way too smart to need advice from the likes of you. Most of the time, it's not hard to tell which group a shooter is in. FWIW, I know I've taken it to heart when a fellow shooter or RO pulled me aside to let me know I was pushing the 180 or making some other mistake. That's how we learn, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkCO Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 Option one: Pull the RO aside and tell him he might want to have a word with the shooters. Option two: Pull the father aside and tell him that "I'm not the RO, and everything's worked out today, but I noticed that when you and your son do your reloads, your fingers look like they're on the trigger. At most matches, the RO would catch that and you could be disqualified. You should probably get in the habit of taking your finger off the trigger when you move or reload." It's been my experience that 90% of new shooters (and ROs, for that matter) are pretty receptive to these sort of observations if you're discrete about it and do it in a non-confrontational manner. The other 10% are way too smart to need advice from the likes of you. Most of the time, it's not hard to tell which group a shooter is in. FWIW, I know I've taken it to heart when a fellow shooter or RO pulled me aside to let me know I was pushing the 180 or making some other mistake. That's how we learn, right? I concur. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jman Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 I "might" handle it like this. Bring this to the shop owner/manager attention. Simply state that you wish to shoot here regularly. You also hope to bring several shooting acquaintances with you. Then insist that they monitor and enforce safe gun handling practices. I "might" handle it like this as well. Since I can bare a tragic resemblance to Charlie Manson, I would personally and politely request that they keep the booger hook off the bang button or "next time" I will relieve myself in their range bag. I've seen this work. "Might" being the operative word here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corey Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 If someone doesnt tell them, they will never know. They'll either get DQ'd a match down the road, or worse, touch off a round with the gun pointed in a weird direction and send a round who-knows-where. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Hefta Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 This happens all to much at some clubs, we are not rules nazi's thing! Then a shooter attends a club that runs their matches by the book and they get DQed and tell all of there friends that those weekend shooters are a bunch of jerks. If some of these clubs don't take better control of their matches, it's just a matter of time until something bad may happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
centermass Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 Does this club have a "new shooter briefing"? When I first joined my current club it was a mandatory walk-thru of the basic commands and rules of the range & game. It wasn't a rule book review of your knowledge, but more an insight for the safety/range officers that you understand the most basic concepts of what are safe actions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flack jacket Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 I agree with the new shooter briefing. We do it at our club. In fact we offer a "FREE" 1 hr Practical shooting orientation. That's way you can cut all bad habits... and if you address it during match, they won't be upset/offended by correcting them. We follow some NRA rules.. etc.. Here's a link for ideas. http://www.shootnrg.com/latest-news/free-shooting-workshop Good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Hefta Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 (edited) We are going to have a new shooter mentorship program that we are starting this year. Each new shooter will be asigned to an experienced shooter (mentor) and the new shooter will squad with the mentor. Another thing that we are doing is the first match is free for newbs, the shooter will be coached during the COF and no score will be posted. www.mapsa-uspsa.com Edited February 28, 2011 by danscrapbags Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Team Amish 1 Posted March 2, 2011 Share Posted March 2, 2011 The mentoring approach sounds like a very good idea. The local clubs here do all insist on a "new shooter briefing" in which USPSA and range-specific safety rules and general etiquette are explained. This usually includes, "New shooters are always welcome if they help paste and set steel." I've been meaning to put a complete safety briefing in writing and laminate it, to keep in my range bag. What do you guys address when briefing a new shooter? I'd appreciate any new ideas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillChunn Posted March 29, 2011 Author Share Posted March 29, 2011 Great ideas. Thanks. HH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seancswife Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 We are going to have a new shooter mentorship program that we are starting this year. Each new shooter will be asigned to an experienced shooter (mentor) and the new shooter will squad with the mentor. Another thing that we are doing is the first match is free for newbs, the shooter will be coached during the COF and no score will be posted. www.mapsa-uspsa.com that sounds great! Is this something you are already doing or some thing you are going to do? I didn't catch the date on the post. Also would love to hear feed back on how you think the new shooters respond. I had a mentor bring me to my first couple of matches and it was great. Now that I have a little more experience, I do notice the lost look on the new folks. Giving them a mentor would be very helpful I would expect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe4d Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 I would still post the score maybe with a "coach through" asterisk beside it, This is a game, We keep score people wanna know how they did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steel1212 Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 I'm running a lot of indoor matches now and see it quite often with the new influx of shooters. Basically I just let them know what they are doing as politely as I can. They seem to get the idea. Like somebody said if you don't tell them typically they don't know. Most don't read the rule book front to back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlamoShooter Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 This happens all to much at some clubs, we are not rules nazi's thing! Then a shooter attends a club that runs their matches by the book and they get DQed and tell all of there friends that those weekend shooters are a bunch of jerks. If some of these clubs don't take better control of their matches, it's just a matter of time until something bad may happen. OR... you keep hearing -Finger Finger Finger- all through the day Warning warning after warning all day long on most fo the stages Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Holman Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 I always take the aside and explain what I saw, and why they need to be mindful. Nobody wants to get DQ'd... they have always been receptive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jadeslade Posted May 17, 2011 Share Posted May 17, 2011 Doesn't really matter where you are. Unsafe is unsafe. Finger on the trigger is really unsafe. Address the issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DinosaurMikeGolf Posted May 19, 2011 Share Posted May 19, 2011 Doesn't really matter where you are. Unsafe is unsafe. Finger on the trigger is really unsafe. Address the issue. I agree. Everybody is a Safety Officer. Correct the issue immediately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom D. Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 I want to attend the one hour orientation that cures all bad habits, like yesterday!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Norman Posted May 27, 2011 Share Posted May 27, 2011 We run two 'practice' matches each month. We do a 1 to 1-1/2 hour class session and then a live fire safety check and THEN they get to shoot the match. Or they don't if they fail. We invite them to stay, watch and we invite them back and we talk to them about the why. At our outdoor we do a rules brief and then a live fire check. After that they get squadded with a group that will work with them and mentor them. It seems to work well. Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EkuJustice Posted May 30, 2011 Share Posted May 30, 2011 Do it privately as not to embarriss the shooter. Just let him know to watch it and suggest ways to work on it ie pick a spot for the finger on the gun etc. Just word it as your trying to help him out as opposed to look how bad and unsafe you are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M1911 Posted July 13, 2011 Share Posted July 13, 2011 I've taken new shooters aside after they have finished their stage and give them some advice. At a recent match, a new shooter was using both hands to reholster, possibly muzzling his support hand. I went over to him and said something along the lines of: "Can I give you a suggestion? I noticed that you had your left hand near the holster while holstering. That makes it really easy to cover your left hand with the muzzle. Instead, you should keep your left hand on your stomach when holstering and drawing, that way you never cover your support hand." I then did a pantomime of holstering and drawing (while leaving my gun in the holster since we were not at a safe area). Most new shooters realize that they have a lot to learn and in my experience they are receptive to advice, provided that you present it reasonably. Use the tone of trying to be helpful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rlc9194 Posted July 15, 2011 Share Posted July 15, 2011 Ok Guys as a new shooter, I expect and appreciate any coaching when my gun handling or any other issues with my performance are not up to standards at a match. I don’t take it in a negative light but as a learning curve. The last thing I want is accidental discharge. Send a round over the burm or injury someone. Just tell me, I don’t care if you’re the RO or another shooter in the squad If I make the same mistake more than once then you have my permission to be a Big of an A@@ as you wanna be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38superman Posted July 15, 2011 Share Posted July 15, 2011 "Excuse me, I hope you don't mind a bit of advice". "I watched your last run and I noticed something you may want to pay some attention to". "There are various rules that all clubs follow for safety and violations can get you disqualifiied". "For example, breaking the 180, dropping the gun, things like that". "One of those rules is that you have to keep the finger out of the trigger guard whenever you are reloading or moving". "Its only allowed to touch the trigger when you are actually engaging the target". "It looked to me like that's something you might want to work on". And that's how I handle it. Make it known that there is an issue, but be polite about it. Tls Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim/GA Posted July 17, 2011 Share Posted July 17, 2011 (edited) I don't see a reason not to give them a score even if a new shooter does get help. Rule book says: 8.6.2.1 When approved by the Range Officer, competitors at Level I matches may, without penalty, receive whatever coaching or assistance they request. For some other experienced shooters the problem they have is the requesting part and they feel the person has to ask for the help. By the rules that is true so at the new shooters brief we tell the new ones to inform the RO (who already know who is new but a reminder is good) that they are new and that takes care of the requesting part. I have only seen this backfire one time while at our sister club, a new shooter got upset with some coaching, but that is rare. We do the new shooters brief as well, but I find it hard to get enough across without giving to much info. It really comes down to letting the new shooters)know the safety rules and consequences, to let the ROs know they are new and to get their hits and not worry about time on this first match. And of course to have fun. Edited July 17, 2011 by Tim/GA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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