New SSR power factor

[CRDB]

Me thinks you have been misinformed....

What do you think now

Dean

[jlweems]

I like it because I should be able to buy some factory standard pressure ammo now for a match rather than +p stuff.

[Ahab]

The other thing I like about it, for purely selfish reasons is that 130gr FMJ ball is super fast loading compared to say, 125gr JHP (my current load). It's a lot harder for a pointy-nose ball round to slam into the cylinder face and just stop.

Be careful which brand you buy.

WWB 130 gr FMJ is cataloged at 800 fps, f= 104,000; UMC at 790 fps, f= 102,700

AE is better, claims 890 fps, f= 115,700.

Real gun velocities will vary but not usually higher than advertised.

Yep - I had actually looked into this a while back to see if any factory 130 grain FMJ was legal. Independence Ammo claims their load is making 1050 FPS which puts it in the same ballpark at the 125 grain JHP from BVAC I shoot now, which is making 1050. When I was checking around, I settled on the American Eagle because it has Federal primers and I've got a bit more wiggle room in making PF with it.

To GOF, I really don't like shooting lead bullets. Shooting lead means I have to clean more, and I really hate cleaning guns.

[Merlin Orr]

Me thinks you have been misinformed....

What do you think now

Dean

[lugnut]

Soooo... my regular loads with VV 320 are 4.8/4.9gr with 158gr Berrys at 1.500" COL. What do you think I can go down to? I need to chrono them for sure. Oh yeah, I'll take advantage of the 20pf reduction for sure! I figure I can go from about 130 to about 110-115 and be good with that.

[Wild Gene]

Quite the discussion here.

Cripes the 105PF would be a step up in the Cowboy world. I know guys that loaded 32-20's with a magnum primer and a grain of Bullseye. I don't know, maybe they have one now.

Nothing wrong with making it so people could shoot their .38 special with factory ammo and be legal. It would make it easier for more people to play. These games have to be set up so people have the option to bring what they have if they are going to survive. Each new shooter is a feather in the founding father's hats.

WG

[oldfrank]

I am glad they finally changed it for several reasons. One I can fly to a match and pick up legal ammo at most any store once I get there.

Also I can shoot a model 10 .38 and not worry about being over max loads to make PF.

I don't think the rule had any intention of bringing in new SSR shooters but it will make it a lot easier if they don't reload.

[John Z Sr]

Now that the PF has been lowered, why can't we use .45 AR in 625's ? Why not lower the PF for .40S&W in guns marked 10MM or lower the PF for .44 Spec in guns marked .44Mag, and why can't we use .38 Short Colt in guns marked .38 Spec, if you can use .38 Spec in guns marked .357 Mag. Caliber is bullet diameter, not lenght of brass. Can't wait to see the 105 PF's on steel poppers !!!!!

[eisenhow]

Be careful which brand you buy.

WWB 130 gr FMJ is cataloged at 800 fps, f= 104,000; UMC at 790 fps, f= 102,700

AE is better, claims 890 fps, f= 115,700.

Real gun velocities will vary but not usually higher than advertised.

FYI: I chrono'd some WWB out of my 686SSR yesterday. All 12 rounds were 110-115PF.

[lugnut]

Now that the PF has been lowered, why can't we use .45 AR in 625's ? Why not lower the PF for .40S&W in guns marked 10MM or lower the PF for .44 Spec in guns marked .44Mag, and why can't we use .38 Short Colt in guns marked .38 Spec, if you can use .38 Spec in guns marked .357 Mag. Caliber is bullet diameter, not lenght of brass. Can't wait to see the 105 PF's on steel poppers !!!!!

I think you can use 45 AR with speed loaders in 625s for SSR... but I get your point.

Besides- I still shoot my 686 in USPSA sometimes- so I still need to make 125pf.

[Ahab]

Now that the PF has been lowered, why can't we use .45 AR in 625's ? Why not lower the PF for .40S&W in guns marked 10MM or lower the PF for .44 Spec in guns marked .44Mag, and why can't we use .38 Short Colt in guns marked .38 Spec, if you can use .38 Spec in guns marked .357 Mag. Caliber is bullet diameter, not lenght of brass. Can't wait to see the 105 PF's on steel poppers !!!!!

As far as steel goes, MDs will just have to set the poppers correctly to be knocked down with the light loads. This will make stages where the popper triggers a drop turner interesting, as my 110 PF load is going to take the steel down a lot slower than my 177 PF .45 ACP load for ESR.

And speaking of .40s, does anyone have a 610 they want to sell? I want a new USPSA gun...

[waktasz]

Soooo... my regular loads with VV 320 are 4.8/4.9gr with 158gr Berrys at 1.500" COL. What do you think I can go down to? I need to chrono them for sure. Oh yeah, I'll take advantage of the 20pf reduction for sure! I figure I can go from about 130 to about 110-115 and be good with that.

wow, I guess case capacity really reduces pressure and velocity ? I make 140 pf with 3.6 grains of n320 in my 9mm.

[Duane Thomas]

This will make stages where the popper triggers a drop turner interesting, as my 110 PF load is going to take the steel down a lot slower than my 177 PF .45 ACP load for ESR.

That just makes it easier to shoot other stuff before the drop turner appears, yes?

[Bill Nesbitt]

This will make stages where the popper triggers a drop turner interesting, as my 110 PF load is going to take the steel down a lot slower than my 177 PF .45 ACP load for ESR.

That just makes it easier to shoot other stuff before the drop turner appears, yes?

Duane, thanks. Another trick to put in my Gamer bag.

[jmorris]

I think you can use 45 AR with speed loaders in 625s for SSR...

Not if it reads 45 ACP on the barrel. Its not in the rule book but is in the ones they added online.

[Bubber]

Didnt the original IDPA power factor rule have an exception for standard factory ammo ? Specifically to address the 38 special issue ?

ICORE addreessed this issue by allowing certain manufactuers ammo to compete regardless of Chrono. This is an exert fomr Rule 5 paragraph 2........ A competitor, using a revolver chambered in .38 Special and/or .357 Magnum and using factory new UMC 158 grain, Remington 158 grain, Blazer 158 grain, or Federal American Eagle 158 grain ammo, may compete without regard to power factor. .... These were tested and were making it with the 6 inch barrel of a smith Revo.

I don't shoot IDPA as there are no clubs close that do not cover an USPSA, Steel Challenge or ICORE match. Just throwing it out there if you are interested. later rdd

[JorDanO]

I like the change. I've had a 686 for quite a while and only shot a match with it maybe once a year since I don't reload 38 special. Now that I can use regular off the shelf bulk ammo I'll be more inclined to pull it out of the safe. I think I'll shoot the local regional match we're having in a few weeks with it.

[lugnut]

I think you can use 45 AR with speed loaders in 625s for SSR...

Not if it reads 45 ACP on the barrel. Its not in the rule book but is in the ones they added online.

I'm pretty sure this was cleared up by HQ that it was allowed.... maybe on the IDPA forum? I see what you are saying in the addendum though.

I couldn't find the exact report from HQ but here is what someone said:

"I wrote Robert about it. The /45acp/.45LC/.454Casull combo just did not occur to HQ. But he did confirm it would be legal if the gun makes weight."

I don't think he was lying as my friend shoots AR in his 625 as well and said it was legit. I guess I could research some more but I'm using 38s right now anyway.

Edited January 18, 2011 by lugnut

[Forrest Halley]

Sorry for the late entry in the post and addressing multiple points.

To the shooters with the idea of having a hotter shell available to use for poppers:

I recently competed at a BUG match running a scandium Jframe .357. I loaded a fullpower .357 in to make the one popper fall down and then the other four were ultra light handloads as there is no power floor in BUG. The good natured folks got the intended laugh out of it, but quite a few wanted a FTDR assessed for this. As SO's and MD's vary in reasoning ability it's probably a great way to start all kinds of discussion and interpretations that will affect your scoresheet. Bottom line is the shooter has the option to use different shells in their weapon practically, especially in a revolver where a spin of the cylinder is all that is required to change the first shot.

Never mind what I said here MIX SIX! MIX SIX! MIX SIX!

About shorter brass and different calibers:

The addendum tried to cover this but the proof is in the wording. Caliber was used instead of chambering. They seem to want you to use the same chambering as the chambering listed on the barrel. So to be hairsplittingly correct one could make a proper argument for the use of .38 super brass with .357 bullets in an ESR or like wise the .38 short colt in SSR. Anyone who has a model of 1988 or 1989 625 with a 4 inch barrel could shoot GAP as it is written 45 CAL on the barrel. You'd think more careful word choice would have been employed here to avoid jockeying for position.

Bottom line for me is thanks for dropping the power factor. It's not going to make me a better shooter, but it might provide me with more opportunities to loan out equipment to new shooters. That's the best part of competing; the fellowship. Otherwise noone would be there to laud your accomplishments and rag you about your failures.

Edited January 18, 2011 by Forrest Halley

[Shadowrider]

Well Bubber sort of beat me to it. I was going to ask why they didn't just state that factory ammo was allowed and call it good?

It's not an issue for me because I reload and I do make my loads meet USPSA PF because I don't want to have different loads for different matches. Because Murphy will always be lurking and the night before a match reveal to me that what I thought were USPSA loads are in fact IDPA loads.

I've just started IDPA shooting a 4" S&W 66 in SSR and I'm liking it alot. Just started dabbling in ICORE too. Revos are fun! So I might be trying the round guns in USPSA at some point too.

[Forrest Halley]

It's not an issue for me because I reload and I do make my loads meet USPSA PF because I don't want to have different loads for different matches. Because Murphy will always be lurking and the night before a match reveal to me that what I thought were USPSA loads are in fact IDPA loads.

This is why I only load major 45's, but you could deliniate easily enough with short colt brass being for USPSA and 38 spec for IDPA....since they've got that add on wording.

[John Z Sr]

Forrest, careful with ALL major for a long time. I shot almost 20K .45 230 majors in my 625 last year and the elbow was sore for at least 2 days after a match, add in the Wed night match and every Sat/Sun and the elbow always hurt. Switch to 38 every once in a while and go easy on the body, oh wait I forgot, you are young, go ahead and do what you want, you will anyway !!!! Shoot well my revo brother

[Forrest Halley]

My practice regimen sometimes goes into the threes. I can handle it fairly well. I have mostly muscle soreness from holding up old heavy all day. Tendons aren't bugging me. I'm excited about the miniminor though because I can really play with the reset weight and drop out the strain on .38s so it's on for stitching some targets. Model 10 is outta time so new hand there, but between that and the 581 I will be having some fun at the few IDPA matches I go to. No locks no spurs no problems. If I can get them cut I'll run some super brass in the 581 for zombie six and maybe a little Major uspsa.

[John Z Sr]

Sounds like a plan, we have 2 shooters in our area with 8 shot S&W revos coming out to play Wed night, they will be in 8 division against the 1911's but at least they can use the gun.

[Ahab]

This will make stages where the popper triggers a drop turner interesting, as my 110 PF load is going to take the steel down a lot slower than my 177 PF .45 ACP load for ESR.

That just makes it easier to shoot other stuff before the drop turner appears, yes?

Actually, yeah. The 177 stuff that I use for ESR and USPSA takes poppers down like the righteous hand of god. A 107 PF .38 load is going to trigger poppers really, really slow and let me shoot a bunch of other junk before the turner exposes itself.