Steve Koski Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 If you load clean, tumbled, not on it's "death bed" brass, polish your chambers, and find a Safe Handling area to brush them every 35 rounds or so during a match, you shouldn't have a problem with sticky cases messing up your reload. Half of the reload, that few consider, is getting the six SSR rimmed (no moon clip) cases out of the gun before you can ram six new ones in. It kinda sucks to hit the ejector rod, grab a Comp III, bring it to the cylinder, and find a dangling case still in there. A dexterious pinky is then well advised. If you polish, scrub, and load clean brass, that shouldn't be a problem... even with a 2.5 inch barrel. Prior preparation.... GOF Dude, the makes me never want to get a revolver. That much effort to get a gun to run reliably SUCKS!!! Thanks for the warning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jar Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 He is allowed to do this according to the rules (if this 105 PF thing is true): Chronograph three (3) rounds at a distance of ten (10) feet using a gun of MAXIMUM barrel length for the DIVISION of the same gun type. As for loading dutch, what if he got a "hot one" that snuck through the press and just happened to come up while he was engaging the popper? I never said he couldn't load down according to the rule you cite. And I said seriously consider in my post for a reason. It set off my "Is assessed for any attempt to circumvent or compromise the spirit or rationale of any stage by the use of inappropriate devices, equipment or techniques." spidey sense. Usually I'm the last person to get pissy at 'gamers' (I proudly consider myself one), but I was in a bad mood and this felt like it crossed some sort of line. Thinking about it further, I can't really support a penalty from the rulebook. The time and effort spent managing multiple loads is probably counter-productive anyway. Also, you pretty much have to use them for the whole stage any time there's steel. It's not like you're going to get a speedloader full of ammo in the gun in the right chambers to time where it's going to get used like you can with a magazine, at least without wasting far more time than you save. Re calibration loads, IDPA doesn't have any popper calibration or challenge rule. That's a separate issue that's probably worth its own thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOF Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 (edited) Hey Koski... Dude.. love ya Dude! It does take a lot of work and dedication to make a revolver work really good in IDPA/USPSA. Some shooters do the work, some don't. But, if it was easy, then everybody would do it. You have to REALLY WANT TO run a revo. But, if you win HOA at a IDPA club match (done that three times), or even just finish in the top 10 in a 80 shooter match (done that a bunch of times).... then the look on the young hard-chargin'... high speed, low drag... bottom feeder kid's faces that ya just whupped with a six shooter wheelgun is PRICELESS! I love it... but then I'm just a twisted old guy who likes to shoot antiques. To each his own. GOF -- also a IDPA SSP Master, but prefers revo for fun & games Edited January 10, 2011 by GOF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe4d Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 Didnt the original IDPA power factor rule have an exception for standard factory ammo ? Specifically to address the 38 special issue ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Koski Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 That would be some serious bragging rights. "You just got your ass handed to you by an old man with a wheelgun!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOF Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 Joe4D Not aware of any specific rule (past or present) regarding SSR 125 PF requirements being relaxed involving specific factory ammo. 125 PF was it. There are only three or four current factory loads that can make that PF, and they can be hard to find, and use a bullet profile that does not load as smoothly as a RN. Most handloads that will achieve a 125 PF will exceed ALL recommendations in every CURRENT loading manual I have seen for .38 Spl +P loads by about 2,000 CUP over the 20,000 SAAMI standards for .38 +P. ICORE does have a factory ammo exception for their 120 PF, but ICORE ain't IDPA. KOSKI...Yes, braggin' rights are sweet, when the wheelgun rolls... and ya don't flub reloads, screw the pooch, etc. The great thing about shootin' them new fangley 11 shooters is that ya got extra bullets to make up shots ya know ya muffed. With a revolver, ya ain't got no extra shots, so ya better not muff any. Like I said, it takes work and dedication to make a wheelgun work really well. But, when you do put it all together; SWEET!!! GOF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chills1994 Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 lugnut wrote on the first page: If this happens- clubs need to make sure we have calibration oads (ie revo) for steel. Are they keeping the classification times the same? Master here I come! AFAIK, there is NO popper calibration procedure outlined/specified in the IDPA rulebook. I probably really do need to take a gander at the IDPA rulebook. I think if a shooter hits in the circular bulb area of the popper or higher and the popper doesn't fall, it is considered a REMF. And the shooter gets a reshoot. as far as forward falling poppers go, it depends on which style you have. the Tom Drazy 2 spring style are adjustable. you can screw the springs higher or lower. the other style with the hook and spring....jeesh...I don't know if you can change the calibration on those??? a regular rearward falling popper might have to be set so lightly that a light breeze will knock them over. that could get aggravating. what did most factory .38 Special ammo PF at when 5 inch barrels were allowed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 Didnt the original IDPA power factor rule have an exception for standard factory ammo ? Specifically to address the 38 special issue ? No. And I say that as someone who has a copy of every IDPA Rule Book, including the little 16-pager that really was the first Rule Book that most people don't even know existed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steel1212 Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 That would be some serious bragging rights. "You just got your ass handed to you by an old man with a wheelgun!" The best I got was all but 1, I.E. I was second with a 625 I was pretty happy that day . I'm not sure that 15PF would make that big of a difference would it? I don't know as I don't shoot a lot of real minor as I don't like the way my 1911s feel when they are in the 130 PF range. I prefer the upper 130s and even then I would almost rather shoot major. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe4d Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 Didnt the original IDPA power factor rule have an exception for standard factory ammo ? Specifically to address the 38 special issue ? No. And I say that as someone who has a copy of every IDPA Rule Book, including the little 16-pager that really was the first Rule Book that most people don't even know existed. Can you check again in the pre 2000 or maybe 2000 version ? I keep trying to put my finger on it but something keeps telling me there was some kind of exemption from chronograph for factory ammo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve_P Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 Didnt the original IDPA power factor rule have an exception for standard factory ammo ? Specifically to address the 38 special issue ? No. And I say that as someone who has a copy of every IDPA Rule Book, including the little 16-pager that really was the first Rule Book that most people don't even know existed. Can you check again in the pre 2000 or maybe 2000 version ? I keep trying to put my finger on it but something keeps telling me there was some kind of exemption from chronograph for factory ammo. I believe you are thinking about ICORE.... While I am not a revo shooter, I seem to remember hearing something along the lines of no chrono for factory ammo..... Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Koski Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 At times, ICORE and USPSA have had language allowing certain factory ammo. Not IDPA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOF Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 Steel1212 I can't see where the PF reduction from 125 to 105 is of any real use to someone already downloading .40 or .45 to Minor... a .45 would feel weird. It is a big deal to .38 shooters. They can stop beating up their .38 chambered guns with upper pressure loads, and they can now buy legal loads over the counter. For those that do reload, it means they don't have to stick with 158, 180 and even 200 grain bullets. 125/130 grain slugs will now make the PF at standard pressures. GOF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samuel Adams Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 If you load clean, tumbled, not on it's "death bed" brass, polish your chambers, and find a Safe Handling area to brush them every 35 rounds or so during a match, you shouldn't have a problem with sticky cases messing up your reload. Half of the reload, that few consider, is getting the six SSR rimmed (no moon clip) cases out of the gun before you can ram six new ones in. It kinda sucks to hit the ejector rod, grab a Comp III, bring it to the cylinder, and find a dangling case still in there. A dexterious pinky is then well advised. If you polish, scrub, and load clean brass, that shouldn't be a problem... even with a 2.5 inch barrel. Prior preparation.... GOF Dude, the makes me never want to get a revolver. That much effort to get a gun to run reliably SUCKS!!! Thanks for the warning. Come over to the Dark Side. We have cookies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RePete Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 (edited) I would think the reduced ejection stroke of a 2-1/2" wheelie would not be effective for IDPA. I would think the reduced ejection stroke of a 2-1/2" wheelie would not be effective for IDPA. Good point. I have enough trouble with what I have to work with on the larger frame guns.... With that being said I have not tried a 2.5 yet so ....... The 2.5s are a pain if you get a sticky case. I sometimes (alright often) use a 686 w/2 1/2" barrel and have never had one/some stick in the cylinder, usually caused by shooting lead which I quit using, although I have just found 500 that I'm going to blow off. I use a Hoppes Tornado brush in .38 caliber to remove the lead ring and in general keep the cylinder clean and sticky free. Forgot to add that it doesn't matter if the ammo makes PF (125000) from a snubby, only that it makes it from the longest legal barrel length (4"). Edited January 11, 2011 by RePete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steel1212 Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 Steel1212 I can't see where the PF reduction from 125 to 105 is of any real use to someone already downloading .40 or .45 to Minor... a .45 would feel weird. It is a big deal to .38 shooters. They can stop beating up their .38 chambered guns with upper pressure loads, and they can now buy legal loads over the counter. For those that do reload, it means they don't have to stick with 158, 180 and even 200 grain bullets. 125/130 grain slugs will now make the PF at standard pressures. GOF I never think of factory ammo as I never use it . Also I'm new to revo and when I think of this I don't think of the older 38 special only guns out there I just think in 357 mag chambered guns. I guess it will be a good thing for that. I guess what I'm really asking is about the shooting part. Will 15PF really make a difference in your performance? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrBorland Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 I guess what I'm really asking is about the shooting part. Will 15PF really make a difference in your performance? I'm curious, too. More to the point, I'm wondering if the difference might make a negative difference in one's overall revolver shooting, i.e. that USPSA major or ESR load's gonna feel like a howitzer. Once it's official, I'll likely stick with my current SSR load for now (makes 129pf). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RePete Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 I guess what I'm really asking is about the shooting part. Will 15PF really make a difference in your performance? I'm curious, too. More to the point, I'm wondering if the difference might make a negative difference in one's overall revolver shooting, i.e. that USPSA major or ESR load's gonna feel like a howitzer. Once it's official, I'll likely stick with my current SSR load for now (makes 129pf). I think it will make a negative impact eventually. Ask yourself if the lower PF (assuming 105000) will knock down a popper that's used to activate a swinger/turner etc. - forward or rearward falling - at 25 - 35 meters. I don't think it will. Must try that. Lowering the PF will eliminate a lot of shooter from using the ammo that it was supposed to allow. Reloading equipment will end up getting used/bought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOF Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 I can't speak for anyone but myself, but going from a 130 PF to a 110 PF in my .357 gun does make a difference to me. I have played with "bunny fart loads" and on close range targets (10 yards and in) splits are about .06 -.08 faster with the same Down 0 hits. In a 180 round Sanctioned match, if you have 60 double taps within that range and you save .08 per double tap you gain 4.8 seconds - place standings have come down to a lot less than that. Transisitions on close targets are also a bit smoother/quicker... especially on the Mozambique Drill. At longer range the split difference is a bit less, but still less than with a 130 PF load. I will gain on the score. There is also the cummlative fatigue factor if I shoot the entire match in one day. I'm not a spring chicken, and 180 130 PF rounds is a lot for me in one day, and the lesser recoil can help me not to get sloppy and start tossing 3s at the end of the day. For me, it's a plus. YMMV. GOF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom D. Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 If this does come to be a published rule, it is a good thing for me, anyway. I dabble in .38 Sp & really didn't want to set up to reload for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Watson Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 I use a Hoppes Tornado brush in .38 caliber to remove the lead ring and in general keep the cylinder clean and sticky free I had a .410 Tornado that was the best .38 chamber brush I ever saw. A shotgun to pistol rod adapter, turned down to reach into the chamber, on one of the little rods that used to come with S&Ws worked very well. I could run it six times easier than I could horse one of those 6 in 1 jobs through. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 I can't see where the PF reduction from 125 to 105 is of any real use to someone already downloading .40 or .45 to Minor... There is no such thing as Minor power factor in IDPA. We are talking about Stock Service Revolver here, not Enhanced Service or Custom Defensive or Stock Service Pistol. In SSR it's not legal to use rimless auto pistol cartridges since the guns must feed out of speedloaders.Those using a .40 or .45 in Enhanced Service Revolver must load to at least a 165,000 power factor. No one in IDPA is downloading .40 or .45 to 125,000 anywhere other than Enhanced Service Pistol and Stock Service Pistol - and that's just a handful of people - and we're not talking about ESP or SSP here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steel1212 Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 (edited) So you don't thing anybody is down loading 40 and 45s in ssp? If there is no minor pf then why is there a random chrono? Edited January 12, 2011 by steel1212 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ahab Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 Ask yourself if the lower PF (assuming 105000) will knock down a popper that's used to activate a swinger/turner etc. - forward or rearward falling - at 25 - 35 meters. I don't think it will. When was the last time you saw a popper at 25 yards in an IDPA match? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 When was the last time you saw a popper at 25 yards in an IDPA match? That would be about four months ago. Every Washington State IDPA Champsionship I've ever shot - and I've only missed one, due to injury, since 2002 - has had poppers at 30 and 35 yards. Admittedly this is not something that's common, but it does happen occasionally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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