Jesse Tischauser Posted October 27, 2011 Share Posted October 27, 2011 (edited) That's more like it guys! I knew we could keep it going. Nothing like rules and money to get the blood flowing. The safety rules are all relatively the same JJ. Since this has turned into a bitch fest I figure I'll dive in and say I'd much rather shoot anywhere but in Vegas. It's WAY expensive and I was so tired I couldn't even enjoy any of the temptations the city has to offer after the match. Oh and the prize table arrangement was not so good. I picked up a certificate for a Stag 15 rifle. That's all it said which doesn't say anything. No model number to tell what type of Stag 15 rifle. Same goes for the DPMS certificates. Then I call the FFL yesterday to get the rifle shipped and I have to pay a $25 transfer fee and $19.95 for shipping? Sorry but that is unacceptable! Considering your statement in post #161 it doesn't seem like that bad of a deal. Oh I was being facetious in post #161. Or squad was nuttin' but safe. We would never do anything like take off a belt that had a holster with an EMPTY pistol in it. Nor would we unbag anywhere but the safe area or the line. Heck I am now convinced that our squad's only DQ wasn't a justified DQ. The shooter wasn't in the process of unloading and showing clear when her gun went off she was mearly engaging a chip of a clay that caught her eye at the same time the RO was saying something that she probably couldn't hear about being finished. Jesse, The chicken or the egg??? I think SOF was doing 3gun (multigun) long before USPSA multigun. USPSA (or some early form of it) probably started doing "action pistol" before that. range commands, BSRs, etc probably were developed mostly by USPSA (or some early form of it). I have no clue, and don't really care "where it all began". But! USPSA is mostly STILL using their basic PISTOL rule set for the core of USPSA multigun. IMGA and other outlaw matches are free to choose what they want from whatever rule set they want AND add whatever they want. So I suppose some of the generic stuff in the IMGA rule set (and most outlaw matches) has come from the USPSA PISTOL rule set. SO??? What I was trying to say was, its long past time for USPSA to get a new rule set for multigun. AND I was also saying that when a rule call comes up at our match, I use OUR rules to guide me, not USPSAs. But it seems I am reminded/bantered quite often (by the afore mentioned) that I use USPSA rules to make calls. I do not. example; I used our rule addressing "spirt of the rules" to make a call for your shooting buddy to get a reshoot at RM3G. Try to find that in other rule sets...you probably won't. I "borrowed" it from competitive skydiving rules...(see section 3d under "sportsmanship and conduct" in our rule set) (I didn't think I was adding to a "bitch fest" either... ) jj FREE OPEN NOW! We are on the same page amigo JJ. I was just reading into what I assumed to be the only thing that Outlaw and USPSA rules have in common when Larry mentioned it. Your "spirit of the rules" is excellent!!! Most situations are common sensical, you know they make sense. You don't always need a rule book to tell right from wrong when you have logical folks around. !!!FREE OPEN NOW!!! Edited October 27, 2011 by Jesse Tischauser Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack T Posted October 27, 2011 Share Posted October 27, 2011 (edited) First USPSA National 3 Gun Match was at PASA Park, Barry IL., 1990. My first 3 Gun match. Rifle broke, DNFd the match and it has been all down hill for me ever since: Jack PS: For some reason I keep thinking it was in 1991 but I believe it was in 1990 before I retired. Edited October 27, 2011 by Jack T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djeffers Posted October 27, 2011 Share Posted October 27, 2011 The safety rules are all relatively the same JJ. Since this has turned into a bitch fest I figure I'll dive in and say I'd much rather shoot anywhere but in Vegas. It's WAY expensive and I was so tired I couldn't even enjoy any of the temptations the city has to offer after the match. Oh and the prize table arrangement was not so good. I picked up a certificate for a Stag 15 rifle. That's all it said which doesn't say anything. No model number to tell what type of Stag 15 rifle. Same goes for the DPMS certificates. Then I call the FFL yesterday to get the rifle shipped and I have to pay a $25 transfer fee and $19.95 for shipping? Sorry but that is unacceptable! Sorry, but you have to love the irony! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1chota Posted October 27, 2011 Share Posted October 27, 2011 i remember shooting law enforcement 3 gunmatches in the 80s. duty gear, duty weapons. but SOF was the first really "big" match i remember. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Bore Posted October 27, 2011 Share Posted October 27, 2011 I'll throw in my .02, as far as the barrels go I almost had a bad situation on one stage where my charging handle on my shotgun caught on the barrel and literally shot back out of the barrel. I was in the process of drawing my pistol when I noticed the receiver of my shotgun at almost face level. I was able to fumble and catch it, keep it pointed in a safe direction and replace it then continue with the rest of the stage. Which then didnt go as well as I would have liked. It did not catch on the carpet but on the edge of the barrel. Each shooter needs to pay attention how they place their guns in these barrels. After that I was a little more careful. I saw a few guys literally tossing their shot guns into the barrels from a few feet away, its your responsiblity to get the firearm into the drop box/barrel, take your chances if you get careless. As far as the match went. I had 3 reshoots due to props. One for an activator, 2 for blasting a star and getting more than one plate with one shot. I thought the stages were good and well planned out. I would prefer a little more long range rifle, but thats a personal preference and some more slugs thrown in. But overall, ill be back. Scott Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gose Posted October 27, 2011 Share Posted October 27, 2011 Then I call the FFL yesterday to get the rifle shipped and I have to pay a $25 transfer fee and $19.95 for shipping? Sorry but that is unacceptable! I'll take it. It is for sale. Model 3G just like the gun that won the gun. I know that cost is about par for a transfer and shipping but for some reason I didn't have to pay either fee on the other 5 or so rifles I won at the Outlaw matches this year. Heh, obviously you never won a gun at Iron man then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MustangGreg66 Posted October 27, 2011 Share Posted October 27, 2011 Here's a teaser for my full match video coming later. This probably has all the cool shots though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larry weeks Posted October 27, 2011 Share Posted October 27, 2011 JJ - I stand corrected on your match and rules. You folks do a great job at RM3G and we're proud to help out even a little. You understand what it takes to make a match go. Including that bogus slug-hit plate you keep behind one of the shot target stands and drag out to levy a fine on fools like me. Like the rest of you I don't know anything about the consolidated rule book except what Mike said at the RO meeting. He might have given a goal date but I don't remember. Heck I'm lucky to remember yesterday. I think it would be great if all the "outlaw" MDs would get together with USPSA and help develop a set of rules that can be used nationwide - I think Mike and the committee are willing to listen. My other passion is sprint car racing and 360 cubic inch cars came along as a separate class back in the 1980s. Until a group called ASCS developed a spec cylinder head, one set of rules and established regional series, and affiliate tracks, you had to make significant changes to be able to race at a track just down the road, or in another state. Now, ASCS is THE standard for 360 rules and you can go almost anywhere in the country with the same car, engine and tires and be competitive. The class has more participants than the premier 410 cu. in. division which is dominated by a national touring series called, The World of Outlaws. I think a standard rule set and the split, Pro Am format would help grow the sport. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
busyhawk Posted October 27, 2011 Share Posted October 27, 2011 Then I call the FFL yesterday to get the rifle shipped and I have to pay a $25 transfer fee and $19.95 for shipping? Sorry but that is unacceptable! I'll take it. It is for sale. Model 3G just like the gun that won the gun. I know that cost is about par for a transfer and shipping but for some reason I didn't have to pay either fee on the other 5 or so rifles I won at the Outlaw matches this year. Heh, obviously you never won a gun at Iron man then Or at the Rocky Mt. 3 Gun either! Jesse, at SMM3G 3 years ago I won my first firearm and it cost me from the shipper at AZ $55. The pistol was only worth $275 retail but I was still happy! Long live great Sponsors! FREE OPEN YESTERDAY!!!!! RLTW, BUSYHAWK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outerlimits Posted October 27, 2011 Share Posted October 27, 2011 Then I call the FFL yesterday to get the rifle shipped and I have to pay a $25 transfer fee and $19.95 for shipping? Sorry but that is unacceptable! Shit jesse, i spent way more than that on re-shoot ammo! I'll take it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesse Tischauser Posted October 27, 2011 Share Posted October 27, 2011 Sorry I guess the ProAm, Ozark, tactical shotgun and Midwest 3 gun matches spoiled me into thinking that transfers were taken care of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlamoShooter Posted October 27, 2011 Share Posted October 27, 2011 Sorry I guess the ProAm, Ozark, tactical shotgun and Midwest 3 gun matches spoiled me into thinking that transfers were taken care of. Well in 20 years that occurs less than 1/4th of the time , If I just included the last 10 years it only happens 1 time in 20 events, So yes the did spoil us The paper trail is not a casual thing , and mix -up can cost the ffl holder big. The over night shipping on handguns will eat up cash Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesse Tischauser Posted October 27, 2011 Share Posted October 27, 2011 Sorry I guess the ProAm, Ozark, tactical shotgun and Midwest 3 gun matches spoiled me into thinking that transfers were taken care of. So does Rockcastle, CMMG, and DPMS's range eat the shipping cost at those matches? Well in 20 years that occurs less than 1/4th of the time , If I just included the last 10 years it only happens 1 time in 20 events, So yes the did spoil us The paper trail is not a casual thing , and mix -up can cost the ffl holder big. The over night shipping on handguns will eat up cash Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gose Posted October 27, 2011 Share Posted October 27, 2011 (edited) Sorry I guess the ProAm, Ozark, tactical shotgun and Midwest 3 gun matches spoiled me into thinking that transfers were taken care of. The over night shipping on handguns will eat up cash Yes, and unfortunately quite a few FFLs still dont know that they dont have to ship handguns overnight and can use regular USPS when shipping to other FFLs. Edited October 27, 2011 by gose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ncopenshooter Posted October 27, 2011 Share Posted October 27, 2011 Maybe if the ROs were allowed to shoot the match in a pre-match they would be easier to attract? Gose - That's specifically the reason why a friend that RO'ed the '04 MG Nationals hasn't RO'ed another one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesse Tischauser Posted October 27, 2011 Share Posted October 27, 2011 I think I need to get my FFL to save everyone some headaches and $. Of course once I get it I'll never win anything again. Lol! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StealthyBlagga Posted October 27, 2011 Share Posted October 27, 2011 (edited) Maybe if the ROs were allowed to shoot the match in a pre-match they would be easier to attract? Gose - That's specifically the reason why a friend that RO'ed the '04 MG Nationals hasn't RO'ed another one. At SMM3G our ROs shoot the match for free. They do so during the two days before the rest of the competitors. Running through 5-6 stages per day is very doable and gives the ROs a reasonable chance to perform at their best. Now we do the same at the Desert Classic... life is good Edited October 27, 2011 by StealthyBlagga Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benelli2 Posted October 27, 2011 Share Posted October 27, 2011 You guys are too much fun, Don't even get me started Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMC Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 Sorry I guess the ProAm, Ozark, tactical shotgun and Midwest 3 gun matches spoiled me into thinking that transfers were taken care of. I've won at leat 2 gun per year since about 2004 and never has the DROS and shipping been included. In 2007 myself and a friend won a total of 11 guns at the Steel Challenge and that guy got $25 for each gun for just putting the info in his book, we carried the guns home. Then we had to pay the local guy $35+ for each gun. The only guns I've won that don't involve shipping charges are Glocks from GSSF matches. Thank you Glock but you still have the to pay the DROS fees Yes Jesse, you are spoiled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abn-rgr Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 Sorry I guess the ProAm, Ozark, tactical shotgun and Midwest 3 gun matches spoiled me into thinking that transfers were taken care of. I've won at leat 2 gun per year since about 2004 and never has the DROS and shipping been included. In 2007 myself and a friend won a total of 11 guns at the Steel Challenge and that guy got $25 for each gun for just putting the info in his book, we carried the guns home. Then we had to pay the local guy $35+ for each gun. The only guns I've won that don't involve shipping charges are Glocks from GSSF matches. Thank you Glock but you still have the to pay the DROS fees Yes Jesse, you are spoiled. I think that is screwed up. I FFLed the O3GC 2 years in a row and never charged a dime. I even ate a little shipping. The MD's need to take a little money to cover that IMHO!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Bond Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 BTW for the "free open" guys. If you go to Phil Strader's web site, it at least appears that he appreciates why we want this done. As for other MG rule changes, I would urge you to be very specific as to exactly what you want changed and why when you write your AD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbmd Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 Larry Weeks wrote: .....we didn't anticipate the problem with the cable loop at the popper...... I think Carl cleaned out all the 2x2s at Home Depot, two days in a row. It took over 600 big nails just for the fault lines! We pre-drilled most of the holes that hard bleeping ground using masonary bits for the even-bigger spikes that held the walls, target stands, braces, etc.... as far as cable loops and poppers go, may I suggest those little metal carabiners, kinda like what you would use to hand your car/house keys from. my other suggestion is when possible weld a threaded rod connecter....they are like long hex nuts. then thread and eyebolt into the threaded rod connector which is welded to the tab on the Max trap or clamshell. They eyebolts give you up to two inches of travel. depending on the popper design you can also use an eyebolt through the lower face of the popper plate. as far as fault lines go...sorry...I hope it doesn't seem like I am Monday morning quarterbacking you guys.... I really like that braided yellow poly rope for establishing boundaries/fault lines. you can use rebar "t's" or "cross pickets" or even that T-fencing stuff to string the rope from. hang it up about belly button to rib height. If you are stuck on using fault lines made up out of two by two's and spikes...I haven't tried it myself...but I have seen where electricians use an SDS style hammer/rotary drill to drive in 10 foot long sections of ground rod. they just switch it to hammer mode, slip the chuck over the ground rod, and hit the trigger, looks like it would work slick as snot. granted you can't drag a cord all over the place, but a cordless one with plenty of batteries all charged up would work. Just out of curiosity....doesn't the rule book say the fault line must be a certain thickness......doesn't say in there that it must physically touch the ground, only that it can be felt. So if the rule book says for example 1/4" thick....why not use 1/4" rope. Meets the rule book as outlined. Nothing says it has to be on the ground. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyler Payne Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 What is this "free open" thing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Sierpina Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 What is this "free open" thing? Removing the 10 round shotgun restriction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan 45 Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 What is this "free open" thing? Open division shooters pay no match fees????? (Oh, that's a terrible rumor to start!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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