Equipment Pot-stirring

[Patrick Sweeney]

OK, lets run with a question or two.  Just to see how capable some of us are in logical thinking, I pose the following:

1)  We can only have four equipment Divisions in the US.  (forget why, I don't want to get bogged down in government conspiracy theories, The X Files did that for us)  Which one goes, why and how would the Division it gets folded into adapt to accomodate it?  (Or would it?)

2)  If we aren't addressing equipment enough, what would be a sixth Division?  Why, and how would you define it?

For the purposes of this discussion, we have Open, Limited, Lim10, Prodtion & Revolver.

[banjobart]

Easy, combine L-10 and Production, they are redundant.

[Ron Ankeny]

Just four divisions? Dump revolver, they are obsolete, no one takes them seriously, and they slow things down with all those reloads.

[jhgtyre]

Ron,

LOL!  Way to stir the pot!

Patrick,

Ditch Prod if one must go.  Add Open 10 if one must be added.  

The rationale is that production shooters can shoot in either limited or limited 10 and be somewhat competitive.  Open 10 is an eventuality if we don't get rid of the high cap ban.

-jhgtyre

[sfinney]

Eliminate Limited.

Lim 10 has the same rules other than mag capacity. If you absolutely MUST shoot hi-cap mags, move up to Open class.

I feel there should remain a separate Production and Lim10 division, the 1911 single actions would have to much advantage over the Production type pistols, and Production provides a "low threat" place for both new shooters with stock guns, and those that want to shoot non 1911 "duty" type weapons.

And while I agree revolvers are obsolete , I wouldn't want Jerry M. mad at me (or shooting in my Division!), so keep that division as well.

[sfinney]

"Open 10" ??

That wouldn't be very "Open" now, would it?  

Open should remain the "everything goes" class -

Its easier to justify removing Limited instead, and going Lim 10 - those classes are already "Limited" in rules.

[ErikW]

Scratch revolver. Nobody wants to play this game with wheelguns, nobody will. (Twenty shooters at the nationals!?!) Even if you lay down the law for six-round-neutral courses, which will help tremendously, this is an auto game.

I would love to see Limited gone in favor of L10. Same guns, same magazines, more reloads. More people playing in the division, also because some Production shooters (Glock 35, etc.) will be siphoned. (Incidentally, I have a huge investment in >10 mags and I suck at reloads, so I wouldn't be benefitting.)

[EricW]

What Erik said...

[Nik Habicht]

Scratch open!  Get this sport back to its roots.  If people can't line up iron sights anymore thay should be shooting something else.....like steel or Bianchi.

Add Open-10!

[Ebraketurn]

retire limited in favor of limited-10. if you want to shoot hi-cap, then go open.

[Norm Lee]

Open, Limited and revolver. 10 round limit for everybody

Cheers,

Norm

[John Dunn]

Dump production.  It's embarassing to get stomped by a Glock.

Sixth division should be definitely be .22 lr.  I often find myself thinking, "I could have smoked this thing with my Ruger!"  Poppers would require slight recalibration though.

[Shipster]

Dump the wheelguns and add Open 10.  I don't like the idea of paying $100 a mag for hicaps to be competitive in open.  I think it will happen if the hicap law doesn't go away.

[RIIID]

Try this out, 2 Divisions with 3 gun type categories in each. Division#1 Race gun ( open, limited, and revo) use existing rules. Division #2 Factory gun ( DA, SA, and Revo) NO modifications, items specifily not allowed magwells, anything tungsten, bull barrels, adding or subtracting of weight, extended dust covers, full profile slides etc...

Rich

[joshua]

Open should remain unlimited-meaning no 10 round mag limit.  Get rid of limited and just go L10, keep production class to get new shooters in with their so called bedside pistols 9mm or >, revo shooters have IRC so if revo wants to compete then they can either go production, limited 10 or open.  Let's not complicate this sport by changing rules so much or creating too many divisions.  josh

[Shooter Grrl]

Dump L10 and put the single stacks in Production and the 10 rounder custom guns in Limited.

New Division - airguns!  Cause folks, this is REALLY the way we're gonna all end up!!!!!

[vluc]

Limited goes and L10 is forced to use all speed gear equipment.  If they want to dress like production they should shoot production.  Too bad if your waist size won't let you put mags in front.

And shooters should declare a division each year...shooting in any other would just be for fun...oops, may have gone too far on that one.

[Steve Moneypenny]

Combine limited 10 and production, make the PF for all 145-150

Saying that a glock, beretta, sig, is not as competitive as a 1911 is BS lot of us beretta shooters will put that myth to the past.... look at IDPA nationals, Warren and Sevigny were fractions of a second appart.

then delete revolver division, I know a Very good revolver shooter, however we need about 50 more in the country to make the division worth while, and new shooters are overwhelmed by reloading a dozen times in a COF.

add a division, WHY, there is too much diversity now, just because a LOT of people don't want to get good enough to hack it they want another division. right now we have FIVE match winners, locally production is pretty small 10/15. is the most heck tri-state match had 17, and the ohio section less than that.

Vluc...thats an interesting concept, although it kind of goes against the whole "freedom" thing in our society. if you notice most good shooters do that, they play but they have a major gun they run with the whole year.

[gm iprod]

Ok, dump revolvers.

Limited can go and you yanks can use the IPSC Std rules anyway to bring you in line with the rest of the world. Seeing as you only make up 10% of the world population we must be right!!!!!!!!

Just ask ask, we will tell you.

[skeeter]

get rid of lim10. start a single stack class. no wide bodys.

[Jake Di Vita]

Combine all divisions into one. 10 rounds max, no comps or dots. That way there truly is a winner, someone who for that day is the best shooter at the match.

[Brian Gonsalves]

Ok, I'm new at this!  But, here's what I think.

Open, Limited, Production, & Single -Stack.

[joshua]

If everyone is ready to go to 10+1 rounds in all divisions I'm ready to plug up my 19 round clips and get rid of my 170mm.  Then we can probably just go into 3 categories- Open, Limited and production.

[benos]

"Dump revolver, they are obsolete, no one takes them seriously, and they slow things down with all those reloads."

ROTFLMAO!

A year ago I could never have imagined saying this, but: Combine Limited in with Limited 10. The presence of that division could help return the sport to its roots, which is not a bad thing, course-design wise.

Keep Open for the techno geeks and for the guys who are too lazy to learn to shoot a real gun with sights, or the kids who want their shooting sport to resemble their favorite video game.

Keep Production because real service guns should have a testing ground.

And since the established rule was four divisions, the two revolver shooters could show up, even if only to show us how to really handle an old sidearm. Besides, what if Ed McGivern were alive and shooting - it wouldn't be cool if he didn't have a class to compete in.

be

[dirtypool40]

I'm still pissed they went off half cocked on that L10 thing and left no place for us middle speed single stackers to compete.  Notice I did not say "for TGO to embarass everyone WITH a single stack".  NOTE: Too many references to his accomplishments will alert "MIB" and get him deported off this rock.

Ok, fantasize with me for a sec, it's 2005 the goofy "Bill's Crime" has sunset and things can return to normal.

Think Drag racing.  Do whatever you can to your ride, within the rules to go as fast as you can.  It's fair objective and a place to scrap.  Competition improves the breed.

The roots of the sport are yes, better course design, but Heinie had it pretty close with his SSC rules. Real 1911s soup to nuts, stem to stern. Real Holsters.  You want IDPA IPSC crossover and a fair barometer of each? try SSC.     So SINGLE STACK.....that's 1. (where do you think Bill got the idea in the first place???)

Hey since we have "real" guns and gear for one let's keep Production, only let them run major / minor, high cap as they want, with the box rule.  Should make gun choice more interesting.  That's 2.

Leave Open and Limited alone.  They are the top fuel and Pro Stock of our sport and both have definite places.

That's 3 and 4.  I like the idea of a revolver division, but looking towards real competitors, who will come out?  Shooters want to improve and go faster.  the natural evolutiuon is away from the revolver. (Damn I hate to even say it).  If I had to drop one, Revs got to go.

Now if this was the Clintsones still, then there would always be quotas and affirmative action to be sure shooters were paid subsidies to shoot revolver, even if they were better with an auto.  I think that's what happened the first couple of years in L10 anyway.