Darqusoull13

It looks like the new site is accepting match results so that part is ahead of schedule. Seems like classifiers will update the 10th (ish) still this cycle. I'd be kind of interested to know how everything works after everyone shoots their weekend matches.

If you're running a 16-ish" barrel, maybe skip the brake unless you put one on to look pretty. We tested about 10 different loads and even a major load for a 5" open gun didn't come close to making a big difference in the recoil impulse. That might also just be this particular comp though. In shorter barrel (5-6") PCC's, a comp might make a difference. The consensus when we shot was that there was so little difference in recoil impulse that it was easier to just have a singe 3-Gun, Production and PCC load at whatever felt best at minor PF in the production gun.

You're more than welcome to shoot it at the steels match this Sunday too mreed, shoot me a PM. See you at Area 4! On that topic, Shooting USA did a brief interview with Mike Foley where he gave some thoughts relevant to this discussion. He basically said they see PCC as a "run what you brung" division that they don't want to spend a bunch of time limiting. Starts about 8 minutes into the interview for anyone wanting to skip ahead. Shooting USA Interview I think this is going to be a home run. PCC's capable of winning nationals can be had fully set up for under $1500 including optics and a rig. That's on par with Production division level of investment to an entry into the sport.

PCC rules need some tweaking but magazine length is not one of the issues. Standard mags for the Sig MPX and CZ Scorpion aren't 171mm. Heck, what's the length on a HK MP5 mag? UZI 25 rounders work at 166 mm but UZI 32 rounders don't at 201 mm. I don't see much of a need to limit PCC mag length and with all the different platforms it would be a huge pain for some platforms to get mags to specific dimensions. If drums are allowed I won't complain, but I also don't see a need to buy new (expensive) 50 rounders when I already have 41+1. The division is amazing and only needs some basic changes and more importantly, RO education. Limiting the mag length will drastically limit the number of potential shooters. Having said that, PCC reloads aren't AS bad as people are making them out to be. Typically on a course of fire we mask the reload time with movement anyways unless it's a classifier (dull) style stand and deliver stage. So my mag change is a little slower than limited, I'm still practicing and getting my PCC mag changes smoothed out. While I'm sure there are those that want to destroy PCC before it gets started, I'm the opposite. I built a PCC to get people interested. It's been MUCH easier taking a brand new shooter out to the range the day before a match and teaching them to move and shoot with a PCC than it was with a pistol, particularly with smaller framed shooters. My PCC is light, quiet and stupid reliable. I had 6 people shoot an extra stage at the last match I went to and ALL of them asked me for a build list. This week I have 3 new shooters scheduled for a pre-match range day Saturday and a local match the following Sunday with the PCC. We had more shooters signed up as PCC than Carry Optics, Revolver and Single Stack combined at one of our locals.

Doubling up on ear pro initially can also help get over the initial sensitivity. It helped me a lot. The reduced noise almost conditions your body that pulling the trigger isn't as bad anymore. The end result is what Cha-lee describes, your mind stops focusing on interruptions and starts "seeing" the sights lift and track.

I had an Aimpoint Pro lying around that I slapped on mine. I'll switch over to a MRO soon though. I shot the MRO on a friend's MPX and really enjoyed it more so than the bigger optics for PCC in USPSA and our local all steels match. Can't really go wrong with Aimpoint or Trijicon product quality either way.

147 grain Xtreme's with 3.2 grains of Bullseye and a CCI SPP loaded to 1.135" OAL. These make ~130-132PF out of a 5" M&P and slightly more out of a 16" barrel. They are still subsonic I thought about loading different loads for Production, 3 Gun and PCC but it's just not worth it. My load cycles well in all my guns and I can crank out 500 bullets an hour without having to waste time resetting powder or mixing up loads. With a 147 grain bullet doing just over minor PF I can knock over most steel!

I went with a Glock pattern mag. Most everyone that owns a GLOCK brand Glock has at least one 33 round mag for shits and grins and nearly every gun shop has them if you're in a pinch. ETS 31 round mags are insanely cheap and they work well. While new-ish to the market, after talking to some friends and pro's I had enough confidence in them to order 4. There's a bunch of aftermarket options for base pads, springs and couplers for Glock already. I'm not familiar with Colt pattern extensions or if these have to be "Frankenmag'ed" together to extend capacity. Also, every USPSA competition I have shot I have known at least one person I could borrow Glock mags from if I woke up late, didn't drink coffee and in an uncaffinated haze forgot to bring mags. All that said, there was more to my decision than only mags although the price of Sig MPX mags (and the MPX) did nix the MPX from my list. I went JP because everyone that I spoke with that owned a JP has basically said the only way they fail is if you try to load them like a HK, bullets backwards. After shooting a complete JP, a JP internals build and another brand AR9 (also Glock pattern), there's no question the JP internals function smoother, softer and better. See if you can shoot the different options though. You might find that the fit, handling and function of one PCC option far outweighs the brand of mag. Maybe try the old, "Hey that thing is pretty cool, do you think I could try it out" at your next match!

Well, now I'm in for a *mostly* JP GMR-13. JP lower with JP trigger installed, JP bolt and JP SCS built out with various other parts I had available. After match testing a full JP GMR-13, a JP internals gun and franken-AR9 in addition to the CZ and Sig I decided on an AR apttern with all JP moving parts. Since I had essentially all the other parts ready intended for another build that got delayed, it was an easy choice to go JP internals vs full JP. So now my PCC will have identical handguard, grip and stock as my 3-Gun AR and I'm beyond excited. As far as the different PCC options go, they are all fun as hell to shoot. The CZ needs either a CZC trigger or the HBI spring kit and some polish to be competitive, still the least expensive option with $20 mags. The CZ also ran every ammo I could fit in the mags, sub minor to major 9mm. My PCC will pull double duty as a first time shooter match gun though. A few of the smaller female shooters that shot the CZ didn't like the recoil of the CZ, but I'm a little heavier and it still felt like less recoil than a non-compensated 223. Oh well, the CZ is still insanely fun. The CZ also has the intangible cool factor of being charged like an 80's villain. The JP vs Sig "recoil" discussion is splitting hairs with minor PF pistol loads in a rifle. Could I feel a difference? Not with my minor production loads. Factory ammo, maybe? The MPX might have shot factory loads softer but I don't see any need to load a PCC tuned round AND a production minor PF round. GLOCK mags alone would have swayed me to the JP over the Sig but there is a bigger issue with the MPX. The deciding factor for me was the trigger and long term durability of the JP system. I know a couple of guys that have insane round counts on their JP triggers with no issues. The Sig stock trigger is heavy to the point that it needs to be replaced but may or may not compatible with drop in AR trigger packs. So in the end I'm going to with a JP for USPSA PCC and I'm incredibly excited! Build price for me was just under $1300 with 4 ETS 31 round mags and some fancier furniture.

Sounds fantastic! Which HB trigger did you go with? Curious if the delta model pulls differently than stock as it's advertised to.

Awesome information, appreciate the write up. Will you guys be offering packages on Scorpions? Also wondering if you guys have tested the either the HB Industries spring kits, trigger replacements or the CZC Trigger packs for long term durability? There's not much solid information out yet about higher round count durability in the Scorpion yet. I just hope there aren't issue like some drop in AR triggers in 9mm AR's failing or going giggle mode after a couple thousand rounds.

But both appear under PCC 5.2.1 which is transporting PCC's. Why the discrepancy where transport from stage to stage requires a chamber flag but from staging area to start area open bolt is perfectly ok? The unload commands allow for bolt held open, so at what point does the flag go in between stages or does it need to? In any case, PCC 8.1.6 indicates that other ready conditions may be specified which might be the simplest solution to the initial question of when the safety needs to be on. Other than having a complete set of rules from the beginning.

Cha-lee, I see your point about how you feel the rules are incomplete. PCC 5.2.1.2 indicates chamber flags must be used but PCC 5.2.1.6 indicates that the bolt can be locked open OR a chamber flag can be used. While one could reasonably assume in all instances a bolt locked open would be a sufficient (better?) alternative to a chamber flag, that was not what was written. I agree that the rules need a good bit of work. Moreover, I understand the sentiment that HQ may not be providing sufficient support (again) for a new division. However, PCC is getting new people into the sport. We had more PCC shooters than Revolver, Carry Optics and Single Stack combined at our last USPSA match. I'd rather offer PCC as a division and get people involved in action shooting than not. I don't want to let HQ's failures kill the new division before it starts. I know an individual recommendation is meaningless in this situation as the rules, safety rules above all, should be clearly stated. I'll make a recommendation anyways based on what we have done. Write the start position into the WSB for PCC with the language you prefer. At make ready, if the competitor has loaded and the safety is not on the start position has not been met and they are not done making ready. Verbally remind them of the start position. Here, heckling from the squad would be appropriate. If the safety gets flicked off between standby and the start signal, that's touchy.That could be considered unsportsmanlike or failing to comply with a match officials direction but I absolutely agree that this needs to be clearly addressed by HQ. We have considered disengaging the safety after standby and before the start signal a procedural penalty, deserving of severe heckling including potentially calling into question the individual's lineage. Usually I'm on the squad where the only person not heckling is the RO though...

Slightly more recoil than either the MPX or a JP GMR-13 but with 9mm and a shoulder stock it's really splitting hairs. However, in comparison to the other two the design of the CZ is stupid simple. I have cycled load at ~120PF to ~160PF through it with various bullet weights and profiles and cannot get the CZ to choke. I plan on picking up the CZ custom trigger soon to see how it handles with a proper competition trigger. If CZC's trigger holds up, I'd expect this to last a very long time.

I have a question about the JP GMR - 13. Can the hand guard be swapped with another AR hand guard ? I'm a huge fan of how the JP shoots, I just want to lighten one up with a different hand guard and stock and am unfamiliar with the hand guard mounting system.

With the Hundo, I can case gauge practice and match ammo in less than 30 minutes a month. Skip any other gauge. Ben Stoeger Pro Shop has blems in stock sometimes if you want a deal.

Sorry to get off topic as well. Maybe a separate thread is in order to keep the focus on the Silver Creek RO course?

This match was AWESOME!!! As soon as 2017 is announced, I'm putting it on my calendar and signing up!

Maybe I was unclear in my previous post. I've been begging for a class for over 6 months for 5-6 people that shoot at least one match a week. As far as I know, there has been absolutely ZERO interest and minimal communication on NROI's end for even setting up a course. It's kind of a hard sell telling someone to travel across the country, take time off, pay for a hotel and pay for a class only for the chance to volunteer for a match. I'd rather just keep volunteering at my local matches, Ray.

I'd go if it were somewhere in Texas and I have a couple other friends that have expressed interest. I've been trying to push our section coordinator but typically I hear back there's no interest. Funny thing is, I keep hearing majors need more RO's. Maybe one of these majors could get a deal worked out with NROI where if you worked the match, they would provide the class and match fees.

Had a couple friends shoot AA Low recoil / low noise. 1 oz shot at 980 FPS out of a VersaMax Competition Tactical model. No issues dirty or clean, usually go about a thousand between cleanings but never pushed how long the gun could go between. Only tried the powder puff loads after about the first 5k rounds due to not having the ammo available before breaking it in. You have to choke up more for steel, but for the most part if you do the work on patterning you can knock over longer steels with a full choke. You will likely be running light mod instead of IC, but that depends on your pattern and target presentation. I personally do not use these as I shoot a M2 and 3 Dram Eq shells but like you said, the 1 oz at 980 FPS is "stupid fun" to hose clays.

Thank you Stealthy. I'll have 3 new shooters coming out to shoot PCC at our next local club match. One friend who wants to get something for the house and practice with it but also have something his smaller statured wife can use. Also bringing two ladies that prefer "not rifles" (PCC) to pistols. It's hard to turn down minimal recoil and a red dot... That's running 4 of us on 1 gun. I can bring them all out without much in the way of extra belt rigs, just long mags reloaded (hahaha, yeah right reloading) from the pocket. If anyone from the POC wants to shoot one of my PCCs, you're more than welcome to as well. I have plenty of mags and ammo. Don't worry, don't ask don't tell for the other POC members!!!

Check the rails in the receiver where the bolt rides for burrs or small pieces of metal / craps. I had a small aluminum shaving caught that would cause the bolt to get wedged in the rearward position when I shot slugs.

This Saturday there were 2 USPSA matches and a 3-Gun match within 2 hours of me and Sunday there are 4 USPSA matches within 4 hours. During the summer there's also Steel Challenge and USPSA twice a week within 2 hours. Texas grows on you. Just put on a cowboy hat and say "Howdy" and you will fit right in

I'd highly disagree with the assertion that you cannot build the same performance as the Armalite. Is it a very nice rifle at a good price point? Yes, and I considered buying one. But I challenged myself to build a rifle lighter than the Armalite 3-Gun 13.5" model while integrating several specific features I considered left out of the Armalite. The most significant change I made was a melonited barrel, and a very unique barrel at that. Having shot both, my rifle shoots lighter. Price was equivalent. If I were picking an off the shelf rifle, the Armalite 18" would definitely be on my short list. But an off the shelf rifle is inherently meant to appeal to the majority of buyers, not tailor a rifle to a specific individual's preferences.