Tim/GA

Welcome, glad you are back to shooting it. A classifier match is a hard one to come back to, but it looks like you will get classified in L10 from your scores. I am the club President and normal match director but was shooting in the Rockcastle/AR-15.com 3 gun Pro/Am last weekend and thankfully Kevin could take over the MD duties. Hope you see you back for the Sep match, will be a normal 5 stage match with a higher round count As said above, a lot of us shoot at SEPSA in Yulee, FL on the 2nd Sat as well and a bunch of their shooters come up and shoot at CAPS. Oh, and if you shoot- or are interested in- 3 gun, SEPSA will be having a 3gun match the 5th sat. this month.

Don't think you can beat it for the price (or a few hundred more), would love a Leupold 1-6x but the 1-4 gets the job done and I love the Burris. Stick a Switchview on it and a good mount and you are still way below the scope only price for others.

Just got done rechecking my loads over the chrono to make sure I was still good: I shoot Precision Delta bullets, 165grn and 180grn loaded to the same OAl: 1.135 for my Glock 35s. One is stock barrel for Production and the other is Barsto barrel and grip mods etc. for 3-gun and Limited. I don't have to change the seating depth, crimp, etc. between the two bullets but you will have to change the powder charge. It think you will find it necessary to change the powder charge to make a lighter production load. Just changing the bullet weight will not do it all. Maybe if you shot 200grn for major and 135grn for minor or something like that. I like: Minor load 5.0grns WSF with 165grn Precision Delta bullet and Win SP primers to 1.135 OAL. Gives me about 822 fps and 135 PF. Anything lower than that and even the 13 pound recoil spring is to much and the gun slow to recoil and get back in battery. Major load 5.6grns WSF with 180grn Precision Delta bullet and Win SP primers to 1.135 OAL. Gives me 948fps/ 171 PF in the Glock barrel and 964 fps/ 174 PF in the Barsto barrel.0 It takes me 6.6grns to make almost 170PF with the 165grn bullets though.

I am over on the coast, we shoot 4th sat. In Brunswick if you are over this way. Coastal Area Practical Shooters

Welcome! What part of GA?

Always love to see this thread start Let's see, year before this was the year of pale blue painted, small steel. This year was 1/3 Classic swingers (multiple per swinger at that ) The wait begins to see what will be in store for 2013!

I don't know about #2 and #5 for major. Their loading manual puts the max loads barely at 165PF, if that. I have not used #2 because I was seeing to many signs of pressure from #5. I did have some good loads for AA7 but not sure if they would even make major, would have to look back, and the charges were a bit large.

I am the same, have mostly shot production since I started a few years ago. Now shooting limited but same mag position, that is where I will load from anyway and am fastest. Also, shooting 3 gun that is where my mags need to start as well due to shotgun shell holder, AR mags, etc. Actually I take it a step further and shoot the same holster type/placement as well.

Agreed! What can I say I have always been good at math. Yep, don't ever try to explain scoring "backwards" unless you enjoy explaining the math- over, and over, and over! By backwards I mean: starting with the max points available and deducting points. Sometimes it helps get it across though: Example: Stage has 10 IPSC paper, best 2 per paper, 20 shots for max points of 100. Say a shooter hits 19 Alphas and 1 No-shoot/Mike (does not make it up) That would mean you would deduct 25 points from the 100 for 75 points (No-shoot -10, Mike -10 missed points -5). Same thing but count UP from 0 on a stage: 19 A's= 19x5 for 95 points scored. Minus 10 for Noshoot and 10 for mike penalty and you end up with 75 points. When I realized how helpful it was to count backwards was during some training I was taking and we were working on speed vs accuracy. For quick comparison we would add time to the run according to the points down. It really was brought home to me what Mike does to you when you realize that a Mike not made up was adding time for 15 points instead of 5. Like said above, even a Delta in minor would only have added time for 4 points. Of course, I also teach math now so I may be different

Like already posted above, the USPSA pistol rules require the equipment to be in the same place from start to end. That is why USPSA included a specific rule in multigun to ALLOW movement of the equipment: MG 5.2.5.3: Due to the varied equipment requirements in a multi-gun match, belts, holsters, belt-mounted magazine holders and speed-loading devices and any other equipment worn or carried by the shooter may be changed, repositioned or reconfigured between stages, provided that such reconfiguration is compliant with MG-5.1.7, and all equipment is in a rules-compliant configuration prior to the start of the shooter’s attempt on the Course of Fire. Similar to how they put in other deviations from the pistol rules (example: knocking over a plate with a hit on the base that the plate is sitting on is a REF in pistol and a scoring hit in MG). For all of the posts about the bathroom and all, really? Even IPSC with their equipment card does not go there

I agree. It is not just the position. Sometimes it is nice to have certain rounds (like slugs) on the belt or if you need a quick 2 shells I find I can do that from the caddie faster than setting up the gun for the load 2 for only 2 slugs. I can keep the gun on the shoulder, grab the shells from the caddie and load the 2 faster. Even if you end up grabbing more than 2 shells you can load the 2 you need and drop the others.

Think they kept a car stage in just for us Jimmy?

Man I hope they use a BIGGER car this year! That little compact car with now tires/wheels and sitting on the frame last year was not fun to get in and out of. A lot more shooting from inside this year as well, may not be a "big" guy friendly one but fun! Looks like they stepped up the stages this year! Wish I could stay until Sun so I could shoot Pro, no slugs and not much long range rifle on Am but the buckshot on stage 1 looks fun. Question on stage 6, calls for 22 but only 12 plates- I assume that means there will be 10 thrown clays? Ouch, I better figure that part out!

No matter what they like to run wet. The CMMGare finished better, but even the Ceiner version I still use runs well wet. Last I looked the best price was from CDNN. I have found the Black Dog and CMMG mags to be equal and both work. No experience with the black dog drum though.

Wow! ! I'm looking on the Hodgdon website right now and for a 230gr LRN bullett it's saying 4.3 for a starting load and 5.3gr for a maximum for Win231. Got some real confusion going on here. Page 973 of the new Speer #14 manual has 5.6 for a starting load and 6.2 for a maximum on a 230gr TMJ RN bullett. Page 382 of the new Lyman 49th edition gives 5.2gr for a starting load with 5.8 for a maximum on a 230gr TMJ. Also the Lyman Pistol & Revolver Handbook Third Edition gives the same identical data on Page 191. What am I reading wrong? All of this is for Winchester 231 although some of the data just says "231". This is going to be my very first starting load. I don't want to screw up. It seems to me that there would be a vast difference between 4.3gr and 5.2gr for a starting charge. Somebody, anybody, step in here and give some clarification and guidance on this, please. You simply can't find more of a novice than I am at the moment. Help! ! Yeah, I am surprised at the difference in those manuals. From the powder manuf. site even a 230 grn Hornady FMJ is a starting load of 4.2grn of Win 231. Personally, I look at reloading manuals like you listed as being good for procedures, etc., but when it comes to the load data I like to use the powder manufacturer's latest info. You can get some of it in the free load data brochures you see for free at a lot of shops that sell powder- but usually their online loads are more comprehensive. Start with the lowest one you see and work up from there. Occasionally you will get load data where only the max load is listed, even from the powder manuf. In that case the rule of thumb I was taught was to start your load work 10% below the max load listed. Rare now though since they can easily put a lot of data online cheaply.

Also, remember that the powder companies will have loading data online that is the most up to date and can be used to get one more piece of info. Also, might I suggest that you stick to low and midrange loads for a bit as you get your procedures in order and some practice under your belt. Give a margin of error in the unlikely event something is not quite right. One other suggestion, your scale is your friend! Use it. I can probably speak for most of us here that over time we do not use ours enough. One other thing, if in doubt listen to yourself. Right now I have 200 40cal rounds waiting to be disassembled. I visually check my 40 rounds after the powder station. I had a hiccup with seating a bullet and then when I got going again I visually checked my powder but had a nagging doubt a few rounds later- did I see a double charge? I told myself no, finished 200 rounds and chamber checked but it still nagged in my mind. Now I just have to find time to pop the bullet on 200 rounds I should have stopped at my first doubt, put those rounds already in the bin away to redo and I would have only been looking at 30 or 40 instead of 200.

Here are the rules: 6.2.5 Where a Division is unavailable or deleted, or where a competitor fails to declare a specific Division prior to the commencement of a match, the competitor will be placed in the Division which, in the opinion of the Range Master, most closely identifies with the competitor’s equip- ment. If, in the opinion of the Range Master, no suitable Division is available, the competitor will shoot the match for no score. 6.2.5.1 However, if a competitor fails to satisfy the equipment or other requirements of a declared Division during a course of fire, the competitor will be placed in Open Division, if available, otherwise the competitor will shoot the match for no score. 6.2.5.2 A competitor who is classified or reclassified as above must be notified as soon as possible. The Range Master’s decision on these matters is final. Thus, you made right call but should have notified the RM as soon as you could. I guess from reading it that the RM could override the decision but I don't see how using the rules. The MD and stats would need to be informed so that the division could be changed, but that is the only reason. For both this case and a DQ, the RM is supposed to be notified ASAP but neither is about the RM making decision- that is the RO. I would hope that this is more of a case of a misunderstanding because of the way it was worded in an email. edit: I forgot to add that the last part of this "The Range Master’s decision on these matters is final." means there is no arbitration for these decisions. Correct?

Yep, sounds pretty much the same. I am glad we can do all of the reports online, would have hated to deal with it back when it was all paper and snail mail. Big thing for me is making sure to get the scores posted quickly and pay the activity fee so that the classifier scores go in the next update- shooters watch for those 2 things. Good luck as MD, oh and good to see we area all getting that big salary

I started about 2 1/2 years ago and shot both USPSA and IDPA at first. I promised myself that for the first year I would NOT buy a gun just to compete and would shoot what I carried, a Glock 23 in my case. I have always reloaded but I still shot reloads that approximated the feel of defensive ammo for that year as well. I did buy a better belt/holster/mag holder setup for USPSA but still shot IDPA with my belt holster. I am sure I could have scored higher with a different pistol and ammo for that year but it really let me decide where I wanted to go and what I wanted to compete with. Glad I did it, but got some odd looks during that year. I am a big guy and a Glock 35 mostly disappears in my hands so the little 23 looked funny. Also, the chrono guy at the GA state match chuckled a bit when he picked up the 23 and then gave me a few looks after shooting the first round that was near major. In case you wonder, I did stop shooting IDPA during that year (mainly because I liked the USPSA shooting a bit better and there 2 matches a month local, I run one of them now and I also got in into 3-gun) so I went with the Glock 35. Give yourself a chance to decided and shoot more before you buy something for competition only, you will be happy you did.

It is still the same match though, so it is a DQ for all entries. Rule about when a match starts and ends: 6.5.3 A match, tournament or league will be deemed to have started on the first day that competitors (including those specified above) shoot for score and will be deemed to have ended when the results have been declared final by the Match Director. The rule pertaining to reentries, note entering "a" match: 6.2.4 Subject to the prior approval of the Match Director, a competitor may enter a match in more than one Division. However, the competitor may compete for match score in only one Division, and that must be the first attempt in all cases. Any subsequent attempts in another Division will not count for match recognition. 6.2.4.1 Level I matches may allow competitors to enter multiple Divisions for match recognition. We asked about this in the RO class, particularly since there were a number of MDs. Apparently the clause originally stated about subsequent matches is more along the lines of the Nationals. One match that is technically two separate matches. A DQ in the first match does not prevent a shooter from being in the second match.

Yes, the fee is for all shooters (and a reentry is counted as another shooter with the same fees due), USPSA members or not. The club only gets activity points towards Nationals slots from members shooting though. Other is based on # of class. stages. I think it is $6.50 per for a 6 stage special. Are you uploading the activity report online? I cannot remember if it is required yet or not, but WAY easier. I pay our fee with a credit card right after uploading and get reimbursed from the club. We have a lot of new shooters and I would hate to forget to pay before the next update and start fielding the emails/phone calls

Thanks, would not be looking for 10mm out of the 40 barrel, but loading the 200 grn long and to major should be easy in this set up.i load 40 already so that is eay for both. Had been thinking about a 10mm for the woods, now even more! Thanks

Note the term used is match, not stage in 6.2.6 The definition of stage and match is below 6.1.2 Stage – A separately timed and scored component of a match. 6.1.3 Match – Consists of a minimum of 2 stages. The total sum of individual stage results will be accumulated to declare a match winner. A match must include only one type of firearm (e.g. handgun, shotgun or rifle). A re-entry is within the same match, thus a DQ will apply to that stage as well. EZ does take care of the original entry in that once a DQ is entered the classifier that is uploaded does not count for the shooter (but yes, the club does pay the activity fee for the match AND the classifier). I am not sure if it automatically catches the re-entry though, have not had that happen so far when doing scores. Edit- added: Just checked and when I did a quick try on an old match that I shot the classifier as well as a reentry, EZ Win does NOT automatically DQ the reentry, but it does have a note to tell you to make sure to DQ any other entry as well when you enter the original DQ.

Thanks for the info, I like the idea of having them ream it longer. I thought I was all set (for awhile anyway) when it came to pistols with my stock 35 for Prod and limited 35 for limited/3gun, etc- now I don't know! I have large hands, if you saw my avatar full size it is amazing how much of the 35 is not seen due to my hands. This set up seems ideal for the new push towards shooting 200grn loads for major in Limited. Can load longer due to the 10mm mags and the worry about pressures should be less. Actually, is that correct? Since you are using a 40 conversion barrel, will it still be able to handle higher pressures?

Nice. I have a 35 with agressive undercutting and texturing and love it. Thie G20 route is interesting. Any issues with feeding the shorter 40ammo? I assume you load it longer, similar to a 2011 frame?