Classifier reshoot policy

[Nik Habicht]

I think it's an honour system that goes both ways.

Everyone SHOULD shoot a classifier like just another stage and see where they end up, regardless of great or bad performance that day.

Reshoots should be granted like on a "normal" stage, nothing else. If your equipment fails, it's part of your match preparation or bad luck - like on a real stage.

Ultimately that's not entirely in line with what the classifier manual prescribes though.....

[Neomet]

At Rio, after you finish your match and turn in your score sheets you can reshoot the classifier for some extra bucks. Personally guys wanting to jump up a class

don't give me heartburn at all. Shoot as many classifiers as you like, its more bucks for the club and you might quit kicking my ass in B.

edited to correct crappy spelling.

Edited February 10, 2010 by Neomet

[Ron Ankeny]

Ultimately that's not entirely in line with what the classifier manual prescribes though.....

Instead of beating this dead horse, everyone would be well advised to read the manual...and if need be call Sedro for the rationale as to why the policy is as written. Although, it is kind of interesting to read opinions.

[mlmiller1]

At Rio, after you finish your match and turn in your score sheets you can reshoot the classifier for some extra bucks. Personally guys wanting to jump up a class

don't give me heartburn at all. Shoot as many classifiers as you like, its more bucks for the club and you might quick kicking my ass in B.

I agree with you. Does it hurt me for someone to grandbag to B class? UHHH, if they do & they beat me, then maybe they should be a B or maybe I shouldn't. If lots of folks would grandbag out of B, that would make my day! hahaha.

MLM

[LPatterson]

This poor dead horse is being beaten with the ball bat of integrity and the golf club of policy intent.

I'm a simple fun shooter that see's a shooter making multiple classifier runs and thinks wow what an ego. And when we go to a major match and they try to duplicate that absolute best run and crash and burn, I think wow that classifier update didn't work. I don't see a problem with a reshoot for an equipment failure because it is a win for the club and not the shooter. True the shooter may get reclassified as a result of a reshoot but can they duplicate at a major match when all the marbles are involved. (Back in the day, marbles was a sport where cheaters would dig out the steelies to break your shooter or they used a marble twice the size of yours to win all the marbles in the pot.) In today's shooting world any one can score a major upset by being a little more consistent than the king of the hill. So in today's world a shooter reshoots a classifier to get a percentage that gets them an upgrade and they become the darling of their local club. So they go to an Area match and discover they are in a pool of gar instead of perch and they get eaten. Or they get lucky and the big gar are not there and they escape victorious. Now they take that sense of being to the Nationals where the gar are minnows for the sharks.

Unless you are a shark don't think that looking like a shark will allow you to survive.

[xsniper]

This poor dead horse is being beaten with the ball bat of integrity and the golf club of policy intent.

I'm a simple fun shooter that see's a shooter making multiple classifier runs and thinks wow what an ego. And when we go to a major match and they try to duplicate that absolute best run and crash and burn, I think wow that classifier update didn't work. I don't see a problem with a reshoot for an equipment failure because it is a win for the club and not the shooter. True the shooter may get reclassified as a result of a reshoot but can they duplicate at a major match when all the marbles are involved. (Back in the day, marbles was a sport where cheaters would dig out the steelies to break your shooter or they used a marble twice the size of yours to win all the marbles in the pot.) In today's shooting world any one can score a major upset by being a little more consistent than the king of the hill. So in today's world a shooter reshoots a classifier to get a percentage that gets them an upgrade and they become the darling of their local club. So they go to an Area match and discover they are in a pool of gar instead of perch and they get eaten. Or they get lucky and the big gar are not there and they escape victorious. Now they take that sense of being to the Nationals where the gar are minnows for the sharks.

Unless you are a shark don't think that looking like a shark will allow you to survive.

Very Well Stated LeRoy

[boz1911]

I used to think I'd only reshoot a classifier because of a gun malfunction but that changed recently. We were shooting El Prez and I had a really slow reaction to the start signal so I did the reshoot with a different RO. Wasn't a blazing run but it was ok. After watching the video I realized the original RO was holding the timer with the speaker facing him, no wonder I couldn't hear it, being as I double plug also.

[Corey]

What if you think you want to reshoot, get geared back up and then shoot a LOWER score on the classifier....which one gets turned in for classification score?

[ima45dv8]

What if you think you want to reshoot, get geared back up and then shoot a LOWER score on the classifier....which one gets turned in for classification score?

They would (should) both get submitted in the Classifier Report for the match, but only the highest one will be applied to the shooters classification calculation.

[Flatland Shooter]

What if you think you want to reshoot, get geared back up and then shoot a LOWER score on the classifier....which one gets turned in for classification score?

They would (should) both get submitted in the Classifier Report for the match, but only the highest one will be applied to the shooters classification calculation.

If more than one classifier is turned in for a shooter, who pays the fee? More likely, only one will be turned in. Its up to the MD to decide if he will accept either the last one shot or the cherry picked best one shot.

Bill

[ima45dv8]

What if you think you want to reshoot, get geared back up and then shoot a LOWER score on the classifier....which one gets turned in for classification score?

They would (should) both get submitted in the Classifier Report for the match, but only the highest one will be applied to the shooters classification calculation.

If more than one classifier is turned in for a shooter, who pays the fee? More likely, only one will be turned in. Its up to the MD to decide if he will accept either the last one shot or the cherry picked best one shot.

Bill

The shooter should pay. I believe the fee is still $3.00, and there's no reason the club should eat that. Some do, or so I've heard. Haven't seen it in person, though.

You wanna play....you gotta pay.

[Neomet]

Thats why I like the policy at Rio. You turn in your score sheets for the match. Those are the only scores that will go towards the days match results. If at that point you want to reshoot the classifier, once, twice, ten times you hand over $5 a pop and go reshoot it. The extra classifier(s) will come up on the final results as a reshoot and does not count towards the match results but does get submitted to USPSA.

I really don't care why someone wants to reshoot, whether it is to attain a goal of reaching a certain class, or because they feel guilty because they shoot field stages way better than classifiers and everyone accuses them of sandbagging, or because they want a new USPSA card. Its none of my business and who am I to judge?

[ima45dv8]

Yeah, I should have mentioned that.

Your first pass at the classifier stage in a match is the only one that should count for match score. Any subsequent attempts may boost your performance with USPSA HQ, but does not/should not apply to the final results for that match.

[Flexmoney]

If more than one classifier is turned in for a shooter, who pays the fee? More likely, only one will be turned in. Its up to the MD to decide if he will accept either the last one shot or the cherry picked best one shot.

Bill

It is up the MD to decide on the fee for a reshoot.

But, whatever the outcome, the best score should go in.

Locally, we send in the match score and the (best) reshoot.

---------------------------

I have an idea for MD's to use as policy...

Charge $5 for the reshoot (standard). If the shooter wants a second reshoot, that will be an additional $6...then $7 and so on.

All additional funds go to the"pizza" fund.

[BlackSabbath]

This poor dead horse is being beaten with the ball bat of integrity and the golf club of policy intent.

I'm a simple fun shooter that see's a shooter making multiple classifier runs and thinks wow what an ego. And when we go to a major match and they try to duplicate that absolute best run and crash and burn, I think wow that classifier update didn't work. I don't see a problem with a reshoot for an equipment failure because it is a win for the club and not the shooter. True the shooter may get reclassified as a result of a reshoot but can they duplicate at a major match when all the marbles are involved. (Back in the day, marbles was a sport where cheaters would dig out the steelies to break your shooter or they used a marble twice the size of yours to win all the marbles in the pot.) In today's shooting world any one can score a major upset by being a little more consistent than the king of the hill. So in today's world a shooter reshoots a classifier to get a percentage that gets them an upgrade and they become the darling of their local club. So they go to an Area match and discover they are in a pool of gar instead of perch and they get eaten. Or they get lucky and the big gar are not there and they escape victorious. Now they take that sense of being to the Nationals where the gar are minnows for the sharks.

Unless you are a shark don't think that looking like a shark will allow you to survive.

Nice. Very well stated.

I don't re-shoot classifiers...never have. I'm Master in Production and Limited and earned those cards, so I'm always amused at the shooters that show up at big matches who've dug that hole. My guess is it makes them feel good at the locals to see that "M" by their name, but sure hurts when it's big show time.

Edited February 11, 2010 by BlackSabbath

[Nik Habicht]

If more than one classifier is turned in for a shooter, who pays the fee? More likely, only one will be turned in. Its up to the MD to decide if he will accept either the last one shot or the cherry picked best one shot.

Bill

It's not up to the MD --- unless there's a blanket policy at the club forbidding re-shoots due to time constraints, and assuming that the subsequent classifiers are accompanied by the proper fee....

Shooter pays for additional runs. (In the Mid-Atlantic Section the classifier re-shoot fee is set at $5 -- so the club even makes a little money) Scorekeeper enters them in the correct order in EZWinscore. The first attempt counts for match score. MD or designate uploads the entire package and Sedro wolley figures out the rest...

[TheQuietMan2]

We set up two identical classifier stages. One is named "Warm Up" and one is named by the USPSA Software.

Unless there is a stage equipment malfunction, you get two runs. We send in the highest HF. We have not had a single complaint.

[wide45]

We set up two identical classifier stages. One is named "Warm Up" and one is named by the USPSA Software.

Unless there is a stage equipment malfunction, you get two runs. We send in the highest HF. We have not had a single complaint.

That 's not something you should be doing. A warmup run on the classifier isn't SOP.

[Paul Santiago]

We set up two identical classifier stages. One is named "Warm Up" and one is named by the USPSA Software.

Unless there is a stage equipment malfunction, you get two runs. We send in the highest HF. We have not had a single complaint.

Why would you get any complaints?

[Nik Habicht]

We set up two identical classifier stages. One is named "Warm Up" and one is named by the USPSA Software.

Unless there is a stage equipment malfunction, you get two runs. We send in the highest HF. We have not had a single complaint.

Here's the last section of the introduction to the classification system from the Classifier Coursebook -- downloadable on USPSA.org:

What The System Measures

Many shooters use the classification system as if it were a huge postal match. Their goal is to obtain an Master or Grand Master classification, and they can get discouraged when they see their percentage changing from time to time. Recently, some members have come to believe that the system was intended to indicate the highest performance level they could reach. Unfortunately, it is a simple matter for members to shoot a particular classifier over and over until they achieve as high a score a possible, then they send that score in to be used. This results in a classification that does not reflect reality, and in most cases, members who have done this cannot realistically compete at that higher level.

It is understood that anyone can do poorly on a classifier stage for various reasons, and this is why the USPSA board of directors has allowed members to reshoot a classifier stage for classification purposes. This permission should not be construed to mean that members can shoot classifier stages repeatedly until they have a score they like. The integrity of the classification system is at stake.

What the system was really designed and meant to show is how well a member can perform on a regular basis so that they can compete against shooters of their own relative skill level. It adds to the fun and excitement of practical shooting, the greatest shooting sport going!

Reading that section, it's fairly clear to me that setting up two identical classifiers and allowing competitors to "warm-up" contravenes what the classifier system is set to accomplish.....

[spanky]

We set up two identical classifier stages. One is named "Warm Up" and one is named by the USPSA Software.

Unless there is a stage equipment malfunction, you get two runs. We send in the highest HF. We have not had a single complaint.

Imagine that...

[jasmap]

We set up two identical classifier stages. One is named "Warm Up" and one is named by the USPSA Software.

Unless there is a stage equipment malfunction, you get two runs. We send in the highest HF. We have not had a single complaint.

I am sure no one complains but I would reconsider this before doing it again.

[CHA-LEE]

Grandbagging for the win!!!

[Flyin40]

Reshoot if you want but only after the match has finished. There should not be any reshoots unless its called for by the rules. There are people that have things to do after the match and reshoots slow the overall match up. If some guys want to stick around and reshoot a classifier let them stay after the match if the match director allows it. Personally I don't care if a guy reshoots it 10 times. To me there are more people who shoot this as a recreation sport and they can only shoot when job, family or whatever other priorties don't get in the way. If a guy wants to reshoot to get moved then let them. To me the guy who reshoots the classifer to get moved up is ok. He isn't worried about prizes at the end of the match. He isn't doing it for bragging rights because he is losing to guys that are in a lower class. I guess I don't see a guy who gets moved to the next class being able to benefit from doing it.

Another thing is that I have seen quite a few people reshoot classifers and get moved up and then turn around and use that as motivation to become a better shooter.

Just pointing out another side of the issue.

Flyin

[wgnoyes]

They would (should) both get submitted in the Classifier Report for the match, but only the highest one will be applied to the shooters classification calculation.

Actually, I don't think so. If you look at the generated upload file for classification reporting out of ezws, I'm pretty sure only the highest score per division for a competitor is listed therein.