WHICH KICKS HARDER?

[RaymondMillbrae]

OK, Folks,

I have another question for you.

I am looking at setting-up a shotgun for 3-gunning. (Not now...but in the near future).

And while speaking to my shooting pardner, I found out that he is a die-hard Benelli Spaghetti M2 lover. (I dare not speak anything negative about his beloved Benelli, for the fear of immediate death).

I tolld him that I have read countless articles about the Benelli kicking much harder than a Remmy 1100...and he went off on me/yall.

He said folks are stupid as heck, and have no idea what they are talking about. The Benelli has this "space-age, high-tech" inertia system that is supposed to be the best thing out on the market at the moment. No one makes a better inetia-driven system, and it functions incredibly to reduce recoil.

He even mentioned something about the bolt possibly slanting/tilting downward in it's backwards teravel, that helps to keep the weapon aligned after shooting, so that follow-up shots are quicker. (Or something like that).

I'm kinda like the doode who wrote a comment on another thread. He said that he was soooooo turned-off by someone's bashing of other weapons, that he got totally turned-off on Benelli's bcz of that, and went with a Remy instead.

So now I am currently looking at a Remmy 1100 to get started, and possibly a FN Herstal 22" SLP. (I've heard great things about the FN SLP's).

I'm kinda turned-off at the moment by all his "Benelli's are god's" attitude, and am looking for something else to show up at a match with - just to be different.

Anyhoo...back to the point.

1) Do Benellis kick harder than Remmy 1100's...and why?

2) What's up ith all this Benelli inertia system that is so great?

3) Are ther any "cons" to an FN 22" SLP?

Thanks guys. You input is appreciated, and gives me things to consider before purchasing a product.

In Christ: Raymond

PS: Check out my thread on how to make a HOME MADE RECOIL SPRING TESTER.

Edited September 26, 2009 by RaymondMillbrae

[steel1212]

OK, Folks,

I have another question for you.

I am looking at setting-up a shotgun for 3-gunning. (Not now...but in the near future).

And while speaking to my shooting pardner, I found out that he is a die-hard Benelli Spaghetti M2 lover. (I dare not speak anything negative about his beloved Benelli, for the fear of immediate death).

I tolld him that I have read countless articles about the Benelli kicking much harder than a Remmy 1100...and he went off on me/yall.

He said folks are stupid as heck, and have no idea what they are talking about. The Benelli has this "space-age, high-tech" inertia system that is supposed to be the best thing out on the market at the moment. No one makes a better inetia-driven system, and it functions incredibly to reduce recoil.

He even mentioned something about the bolt possibly slanting/tilting downward in it's backwards teravel, that helps to keep the weapon aligned after shooting, so that follow-up shots are quicker. (Or something like that).

I'm kinda like the doode who wrote a comment on another thread. He said that he was soooooo turned-off by someone's bashing of other weapons, that he got totally turned-off on Benelli's bcz of that, and went with a Remy instead.

So now I am currently looking at a Remmy 1100 to get started, and possibly a FN Herstal 22" SLP. (I've heard great things about the FN SLP's).

I'm kinda turned-off at the moment by all his "Benelli's are god's" attitude, and am looking for something else to show up at a match with - just to be different.

Anyhoo...back to the point.

1) Do Benellis kick harder than Remmy 1100's...and why?

2) What's up ith all this Benelli inertia system that is so great?

3) Are ther any "cons" to an FN 22" SLP?

Thanks guys. You input is appreciated, and gives me things to consider before purchasing a product.

In Christ: Raymond

Take this for what its worth as I don't shoot as much 3 gun as some of these guys do.

1) yes they have more felt recoil as its an inertia driven gun vs the remmys gas driven system which soaks up some of the recoil

2) they need less maintenance do to the fact that they are not gas driven

3) don't know enough about them to help on that one.

[RaymondMillbrae]

Anything else that is so great about this "inertia driven system," besides it being easier to clean up?

I found this article on the Benelli website. (CLICK HERE FOR THE ARTICLE).

In Christ: Raymond

Edited September 26, 2009 by RaymondMillbrae

[J-Ho]

Benellis kick harder because they go bang when you pull the trigger.

OK, enough of that. I like the Benelli for one reason. It's easy to keep it working. With the extra weight and the gas system, an 1100 shoots wonderfully. But they have to be maintained much more than a Benelli. I don't have any personal experience with the FN/Winchester shotguns, but I've heard very good things about them. I don't care about a little extra recoil. I have a patented Organic Recoil Management System. (i.e. not so skinny) so to me it's no big deal. If you go with an 1100 just learn to keep it running. The good thing about the inertia system is it's clean and not real picky about ammo.

[mpeltier]

I started shooting 3-gun with a remy. It did not really let me down but I could sometimes outrun the trigger/action on that thing. I finally tried a benelli M2 and at first was not overwhelmed, as the manual of arms was different and there was a lerning curve to the transition. Once that was overwith I really grew to appreciate the quicker handling charecteristics of the Benelli and reliability. I have yet to over run the trigger/action on it. As far as the recoil goes, for me it is a non issue. Not enough differance to make a differance, in my opinion. Inertia vs gas? I don't care what its called they both work. Benelli just works better for me. I also tried the FN and it was very much like the Remy, though it seemed a little better made. I hated the canteliver mount and it was like swinging a 2x4. Not as light and lively as the Benelli.

[MarkCO]

Anything else that is so great about this "inertia driven system," besides it being easier to clean up?

In Christ: Raymond

You will see I shoot an 1100 Tactical, used to shoot an 11-87P. I like American, I like Remington, and mine works great.

Yes the 1100 kicks less than a Benelli, however, in general the Benelli's are a more reliable system due to the gas gun fouling issue of the 1100. Older 1100s are worse than the newer ones that have a slicker tube for the gas seals to run on, but when they get dirty or too dry, they start to have malfunctions. Also, unless you drill out the gas ports, you can't use most of the reduced power slugs. The Remington Reduced power Sluggers are the only ones that run mine, but they are not accurate enough for anything smaller than minute of barn. I have resigned myself to using full power slugs. Don't use that many and they are flatter and more accurate than reduced power so no big deal. I have yet to find any birdshot that won't run my 1100. Some Benelli shooters will have malfunctions if they don't keep a solid mount on the shoulder, and they typically have problems with prone for this reason. But no-one (since they almost all shoot Benellis) designs slug 3gun courses to go prone.

I don't like to blindly follow the crowd, and I did not, but Benelli's are probably a better shotgun for most 3-gunners. If you are willing to get to know your shotugn well and keep it well maintained and cleaned, then go for an 1100.

While I really like the FNs, I have never handled or shot one so I can't offer a valid opinion. The FN squad ran them very well on my stage at RM3G and that is my only literal exposure to them.

[MarkCO]

He said folks are stupid as heck, and have no idea what they are talking about. The Benelli has this "space-age, high-tech" inertia system that is supposed to be the best thing out on the market at the moment. No one makes a better inetia-driven system, and it functions incredibly to reduce recoil.

Here is what you can say to your friend: If gas systems are so bad, then why is your AR a gas gun? I thought only stupid people shot gas guns. I'll take that stupid gas gun for you so you can go buy a piston driven AR... Have some fun with that

[RaymondMillbrae]

Thanks, guys.

Since I started this thread,I have done some digging and meditating on this "inertia driven system".

Here is my corclusion...my buddy is full of doo-doo, and may nottotally understand his system. (Maybe the function of how this system works was a bit hazy to him).

Do you wanna see the Benelli inertia system in action? CLICK HERE.

The vidoe clips shows EXACTLY how this inertia driven system works. (Weapon is jarred rearward [no shock absorption], the action goes rearward and the spring compresses, the spring then decompresses, sending the action forward, picking-up the next round, and going into battery).

Nothing here speaks about recoil management!

The system is flawless. The chamber stays clean. It is reliable. (Kinda like an AR-15 gas piston system, but inertia driven).

OK, that's done.

But now I need to follow-up a bit more on this FN SLP shotty.

Thanks again!!!!!

In Christ: Raymond

[kellyn]

My Benelli definitely kicks harder than my 1187 and my SLP. But do I shoot it any slower? Nope.

Since Daniel Horner seems to win every 3 gun match with a SLP, I can't say there is a downside to one although they feel like a 2x4 to me.

One final note, I have yet to hear a winning 3 gun shooter talk about "outrunning" a shotgun and I have never seen it done and I have seen a lot of big dawgs shoot shotguns. The fastest shotgun shooting in terms of cyclic rate I have ever seen has been Todd Salmon on a Benelli and Jerry Miculek on a Rem 1100. Neither outran their gun.

Remingtons can be great 3 gun shotguns but never forget Rob Leatham's (who shoots Remington shotguns or at least used to)advice: You need 3 Remingtons: one for practice, one for the match (and nothing else), and one backup because the others will break.

[ERIC]

You might also want to consider how you plan to reload. Off the side saddle, I didn't notice any benefit from the Ben or Rem. If you plan to do a weak hand reload, Ben all the way.

I started with a Rem 11-87 6 years ago and got used reloading from the side saddle and forearm. It worked well for me and I really didn't have any problems with it but I decided to go with a Ben M2 last year to see what all the hub-bub was about. I think both are good choices but I miss the softer recoil of the Rem but the Ben requires less maintenance and has less moving parts to break. I plan to stick with the Ben and learn how to weak hand reload some day.

My Rem is now my backup but at the 2009 SMM3G, it ended up being a parts source for my friends when they had problems with their Rems. Luckily I didn't need it but I also never had those kind of problems with my Rem.

Edited September 27, 2009 by ERIC

[AFH]

While I certainly do not claim to be any kind of expert on shotguns -- neither shooting them or working on them -- I would highly recommend the FN SLP. You can take it out of the box and shoot it. You might want to remove the sharp edges of the loading port, but that is true of all new SGs that I know of.

I have seen the Benelli M2 outran at matches a couple of times, but that's not something most folks have to worry about.

Go to a couple of matches in your area if possible. If you ask nicely, most folks will let you try out their SG so you will have better info before you buy.

Andy

[Charles Bond]

I shoot a benelli and have so for years. I have been very happy. I have some guys I shoot with a lot switch over to the FN. They are very satisfied with their FN and based on my expereince with them I might buy a FN for my next competition shotgun. The big advantage is price.

I would also note that the post about the inerta system having no shock absorber is not really correct. Two things works to absorb recoil. The first is the weight of the gun which is not all that large. It does become large if you attach some sidesaddles which will adversely affect the reliability of the gun. The second is the stock on the M-2. It absorbs recoil based on the research conducted by Sims Vibration Labatories.

[calishootr]

first, I'll admit that i shoot a remmy 11-87, and yes it has broke some parts(1 gas ring since ive owned it) that being said I like it for the recoil reduction because ofthe gas system, yes its a lil heavier, but w/ all the crap we are strappin to em in open class, thats a moot point...

My experience w/ a benelli was a long time ago shooting an M-1, the things i noticed right off the bat vs. the remmy were that there are 2 distinct recoil impulses, 1. from the bolt unlocking and 2. from the bolt cycling, both to me a unsettling feeling???? and the benelli is lighter, so you will feel more recoil impulse....

[Jesse Tischauser]

Drink the kool aid, drink the kool aid, drink the kool aid, get a Benelli.

You won't feel any recoil when you are knocking down plates on a texas star, hitting flying clays, and thinking about relaoding 8 in 2 steps.

Why is the Toyota Camry the best selling car? Reliability!

[benny hill]

About out running benelli's, daniel horner could out run robbie's m2 when ever he wanted to. After lightening the bolt & some more mods, daniel could not out run it no matter hard hard he tried & he is about as fast on the trigger as anyone. When jerry m. did the 6 shot out of a shotgun in 8 tenth's on T-V the other nite he used a benelli with the same package on it.

[Aircooled6racer]

Hello: Listen to Benny I have seen that old man shoot that Benelli really,really, realy fast He maybe not the fastest on his feet but man he can sure shoot a shotgun. Give Benny a call if you want more info on a Benelli and what he does to make it faster. That is what others have done That is my plan when I can save up the coin. Thanks, Eric

[DMAC]

My FN has worked great out of the box. No malfunctions at all with a wide range of ammunition. It's built like a tank. I do lube/clean it as recommended, but I only do this every 200 rounds or so.

It fits me well and I've loaned it to several friends at my local 3 gun match. It is not finicky, needs little to no mods (depending on your taste), and I have no plans to shoot anything else.

I do wish I could load it a little faster like D. Horner.

I was also considering a Benelli or modifying my 1100. I'm glad I spent the $900 on the FN SLP Mk1.

[mike_pinto]

About out running benelli's, daniel horner could out run robbie's m2 when ever he wanted to. After lightening the bolt & some more mods, daniel could not out run it no matter hard hard he tried & he is about as fast on the trigger as anyone. When jerry m. did the 6 shot out of a shotgun in 8 tenth's on T-V the other nite he used a benelli with the same package on it.

Hmmm.. I wonder who modified the bolts for them????

I know one or two guys that can make the Remmy's sing (one of those Miller hooligans is one) but for the average person that doesn't take the time to swap out parts every so often and doesn't have stock in the petroleum business, a Benelli with a Benny package is the clear choice. I have see the FN's run like a champ too, but as Mr. Peltier said, they kinda feel like a 2x4 to me too.

I prefer an M-1 personally. Feels a bit snappier but then again, I shoot a light S_I as a pistola..

Edited September 27, 2009 by mike_pinto

[HRider]

Benellis do kick more than a Remington 1100. I grew up hunting with a Remington 870 and my Benelli doesn't kick any harder than my 870s to me. For years I thought the 870 was the best thing going, but then one day I saw a Benelli Super 90M1 and saw it shoot a mixture of low brass, buckshot and slugs out of the same magazine without a hiccup. I was hooked, I have been a Benelli believer ever since. If, for some reason I could not have but one shotgun, I would keep my old HK/Benelli S90M1.

Hurley

[EkuJustice]

While outruning may be done in practice seeing how fast you can crank them off, how many are actually doing it in a match shooting on targets while recovering from the shot and getting back on target and transitioning to the next target in actual shoot conditions. Shotgunning is a loading game more than a shooting game.

Shoot a 1100 and have not had problems with it. Wipe the tube down after you shoot it and your good to go. Takes about 5 minutes. Ill take the reduced recoil any day.

Edited September 27, 2009 by EkuJustice

[1chota]

While outruning may be done in practice seeing how fast you can crank them off, how many are actually doing it in a match shooting on targets while recovering from the shot and getting back on target and transitioning to the next target in actual shoot conditions. Shotgunning is a loading game more than a shooting game.

Shoot a 1100 and have not had problems with it. Wipe the tube down after you shoot it and your good to go. Takes about 5 minutes. Ill take the reduced recoil any day.

shoot a benelli mark 2 and then judge. the mark 2 is it! benny hill's conversion is the tops.

1chota

[JasonC]

Action-reaction. Equal and opposite. The difference in perceived recoil is in the weight of the gun and in the recoil impulse. For example, a nice squishy limbsaver recoil pad does not reduce the recoil, it just spreads out the impulse over a longer period of time.

Inertia or gas? During the match, you won't notice. Pick a gun that's reliable.

[Jeff F]

I shoot a 1100 tac-4 and have not had any issues at all. I shot the NC RECON this past weekend and yesterday it ran fine with hi base #4's and 1 oz. slugs.

[STIGUY]

OK, Folks,

I have another question for you.

I am looking at setting-up a shotgun for 3-gunning. (Not now...but in the near future).

And while speaking to my shooting pardner, I found out that he is a die-hard Benelli Spaghetti M2 lover. (I dare not speak anything negative about his beloved Benelli, for the fear of immediate death).

I tolld him that I have read countless articles about the Benelli kicking much harder than a Remmy 1100...and he went off on me/yall.

He said folks are stupid as heck, and have no idea what they are talking about. The Benelli has this "space-age, high-tech" inertia system that is supposed to be the best thing out on the market at the moment. No one makes a better inetia-driven system, and it functions incredibly to reduce recoil.

He even mentioned something about the bolt possibly slanting/tilting downward in it's backwards teravel, that helps to keep the weapon aligned after shooting, so that follow-up shots are quicker. (Or something like that).

I'm kinda like the doode who wrote a comment on another thread. He said that he was soooooo turned-off by someone's bashing of other weapons, that he got totally turned-off on Benelli's bcz of that, and went with a Remy instead.

So now I am currently looking at a Remmy 1100 to get started, and possibly a FN Herstal 22" SLP. (I've heard great things about the FN SLP's).

I'm kinda turned-off at the moment by all his "Benelli's are god's" attitude, and am looking for something else to show up at a match with - just to be different.

Anyhoo...back to the point.

1) Do Benellis kick harder than Remmy 1100's...and why?

2) What's up ith all this Benelli inertia system that is so great?

3) Are ther any "cons" to an FN 22" SLP?

Thanks guys. You input is appreciated, and gives me things to consider before purchasing a product.

In Christ: Raymond

PS: Check out my thread on how to make a HOME MADE RECOIL SPRING TESTER.

Purchased an 11-87 Sportsman and outfitted with all the 3 gun necesitties extended tub, speed loader etc. and when loaded it was unbearably end heavy. Sold it and purchased an M-2 to replace the 11-87 and a previously traded M-1. Much better weight wise and balance with the Benelli....if that makes a differences to your shooting.

Please also note that the parkerized finish that Remington puts on these guns seems alot more porous that what they used to use. Having owned some 870s over the years as duck guns. Now the Rems seem to rust just sitting there.....I hate to think about cleaning guns that I haven't even used. Benellis finish is way less porous and alot of alloy is used. Stayed cleaner and besides the vent rib...it is really rust resistant. I know what response I am going to get from this......but I hate cleaning guns for the most part.....and if I had to clean them to make go bang......that would totally suck! GOOD LUCK in whatever you choose!

[TonyH]

Inertia or gas? During the match, you won't notice. Pick a gun that's reliable.

But also one that fits you