Caliber poll

[leam]

All,

Bobby, kgunz11, is trying to talk me into Long Range Rifle. I'm not financially in a position to try out different things so it would be great to get the right gun and caliber up front, and then spend my time and funds developing for that tool. I've posted a Poll on "The Pratical Marksman" ( http://www.thepracticalmarksman.com/viewto...?f=15&t=137 ), asking your opinions about caliber.

Assume I know very little, and you'd be correct. What would be your one "go to" caliber for 300-1000 yards, and why?

Thanks! I appreciate the learning.

Leam

[GrumpyOne]

300 Win Mag. Still a 30 cal, lots of different bullets out there, shoots flatter than a 308, much easier to keep it super sonic out to 1,000 yards.

[Pezco]

It really depends on what you plan to do with the gun. How often to you plan to take it out to 1,000 yards, used for F-Class shooting, hunting elk etc.

A 300 Win Mag is a good all around gun for all the items mentioned, but if you are rarely going to go out to 1,000 yards I would recommend a 6.8, 270 or 308 because of cost and less punishment on your body. If you're just doing paper punching at medium distances (500 yards) and varmint shooting, I really like 22-250 and 220 swift.

I would not get too caught up in the ballistics, get a rifle for the purpose you intend to use it the most. I have a 30-30 I received when I was 14 years old that I can shoot skeet with (note I only shoot runners on the ground like in sporting clays). More time behind the trigger will trump the ballistics impact for most people.

Edited September 2, 2009 by Pezco

[38supPat]

If this is your first, and financially you are tight. I would say give a .223 a go. With the newer long bullets the trajectory is about the same as a .308 and it's cheaper to load by almost half. A .300wm would be better perhaps but at the cost of barrel life, loading expense, and recoil. If I had to start again, I'd be buying a .223

[VNGunfighter]

The Poll you posted was missing the most popular and important caliber.

The 6.5, anything in this @ over 2800 FPS will do fine for competitions/tactical matches and hunting.

308 is fine and a great starter caliber, and can get to 1K.

.260 Remington, 6.5 Creedmore, 260AI and 6.5x284 are all excellent choices if going with a 6.5 bullet.

.300WM is also a good choice I shot one for years.

7mmRM is flatter shooting that the 6.5 but not by much, and is another way to go.

-J

Edited September 2, 2009 by VNGunfighter

[Chuck Anderson]

What are you going to shoot at 1000 yards, paper, steel, animals, people? For tactical match, sniper match and just paper and steel punching I'm building a 6.5 Creedmoor. If you wanted something that would put an animal or person down at that range, I'd probably go with something a bit bigger.

[cdrissel]

6mm BR

[uscbigdawg]

308 and learn. It's what I did and it's worked out great.

Tons of loads/data and you won't learn the wind better from another caliber.

Rich

[mscott]

.260 or .243 will do what you need. If you want to do a little more research check out http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=cfrm

[M.E.Anglin]

6.5 creedmoor, inexpencive easy to load for, gentle on the brass, soft shooting, cuts through the wind nicely. Some matches won't allow magnum calibers, if they have soft steel.

[Religious Shooter]

What would be your one "go to" caliber for 300-1000 yards, and why?

I use .243 Winchester.

Lower recoil than .308 Win.

Generally shoots flatter than a .308 Win.

Cheap(er) Win and RP brass is available as well as premium brass (Lapua). If I go to an action match I won't get a heartburn when I loose the brass (RP).

Lower cost bullets than .30 cal. $21 (105 Amax) vs. $35-$45 (155 Berger/Lapua/Sierra) for a 100.

Cheap rifles (700 SPS Varmits). When I shoot out the factory barrel I have the option of rebarreling or just getting another .243 SPS Varmit @~$650.

Book max with Reloder 17 (40.8 grains) 105 Amax chronoes at 2930 fps. I shot a steel plate at 1000 yards with the 105 Amax. It gave a very audible clang that was essentially the same as the .308 shooters around me.

[leam]

It really depends on what you plan to do with the gun. How often to you plan to take it out to 1,000 yards, used for F-Class shooting, hunting elk etc.

A 300 Win Mag is a good all around gun for all the items mentioned, but if you are rarely going to go out to 1,000 yards I would recommend a 6.8, 270 or 308 because of cost and less punishment on your body. If you're just doing paper punching at medium distances (500 yards) and varmint shooting, I really like 22-250 and 220 swift.

At the moment I'm looking at some sniper type matches, and thinking to be ready for next year's hunting season. Here we have deer and I think wild boar. Realistically, for the first several months it'll be paper from 50-400 yards, just to learn the skills. After that I'd like to be open to anything that uses a rifle. I won't win, but I'll have my entry ticket in hand. One point is to have a "Nato" caliber.

Some matches won't allow magnum calibers, if they have soft steel.

Good point! That does suggest the large end being .308 vice .300WM

308 and learn. It's what I did and it's worked out great. Tons of loads/data and you won't learn the wind better from another caliber.

Learning those skills is a major driver.

I would not get too caught up in the ballistics, get a rifle for the purpose you intend to use it the most. I have a 30-30 I received when I was 14 years old that I can shoot skeet with (note I only shoot runners on the ground like in sporting clays). More time behind the trigger will trump the ballistics impact for most people.

True words! I'm reading the Army's FM 23-10 on sniper skills and I can see lots to practice. I'm mildly okay with the basics but have never really learned wind or 300+ yard skills. Even with financial matters aside, using one rifle and learning it seems wiser than having several and trying to get my head around the differences.

Thanks all! I'm learning a good bit!

Leam

Edited September 4, 2009 by leam

[Jman]

Well, I'll be using .223 for the local SPR matches cuz that's what I got. 500 yards is about as far as they go so I hope I'm good. I'm no rifleman, yet. But if I'm on a long two way range I'll be lugging a big .30 cal something.

[dt1]

If you're wanting to shoot matches like the PMC down at Hardrock, a 308 will be just fine. Ammo is more affordable and easier to find and the barrel life will be much longer than the calibers/loads with more zip.

Most of these "field precision" or "sniper" matches will have a few shots at 700-1000yds, but the vast majority of the shots will be 500yds and in. This is where the matches are usually won and lost. A 308 will do fine at these distances.

One rifle feature that will help, and you might want to consider, is bottom metal with detachable magazines. There are more folks making these now, AICS, Badger, Seekins etc.

The nice thing about starting with a 308 with detachable mag bottom metal is that you can re-barrel the rifle later (.260, 243 etc) and still use your detachable magazine system.

Another thing to consider is the weight of your rifle for these type matches. You're going to be moving around a good bit, hauling your rifle, gear etc shooting from different positions etc. A rifle with a heavy contour barrel that weighs 18+ lbs will be a burden. A Sendaro contour in 22" or 24" would be a better selection.

Lastly, don't skimp on a good optic. Plan to spend at least as much, if not more, for a good, quality scope as you do on the rifle. Plenty of good ones to chose from. Check out the "optics" forum on Sniper's Hide. You'll find plenty of info and opinions there. I've had buyer's regret on numerous firearms related purchases over the years, but I've never regretted spending $ on the very best optics I could afford. This includes spotting scopes, binocs, and rifle scopes.

Good Luck

David

[M'Lady]

I would recommend 308. Some matches require 308 or 223. However, 260 caliber is up there as well. If you only want to buy one rifle, then I would consider a switch barrel setup. Get one barrel in 308 and another in 260. Personally, between the two, I would go with 260. It will be hard to beat 6.5.

[kellyn]

I would go with a .260 Rem or a 6.5 Creedmoor. I am in the process of building a Creedmoor.

[Tom Freeman]

I vote for 243 or 260. Go with a bigger bullet if you dont mind recoil. I am a delicate flower and dont care for recoil.

[3GunF1Guy]

I would go with a .260 Rem or a 6.5 Creedmoor. I am in the process of building a Creedmoor.

How far along are you on the the 6.5 Creedmoor?

Scott

[Jaxshooter]

Check the performance of the 300 WSM against the 300 Win Mag.

[SA Friday]

Just keep it simple, 308. It's tried true and tested. There's tons of info out there for it already. Accurate enough to do what you want, and mild enough you are not going to be replacing barrels every 2k rounds. Recoil is more than a 243 or 260, but not much. Large enough caliber that you can hunt elk at shorter ranges and still mild enough you can use it on white tails and hogs. Reloading materials are readily available and there is a lot of them out there for the 308. Hell, there's some factory made for 308 that pretty damn good.

Going with an atypical round brings in so much more to learn while you are trying to learn the shooting itself. Get something easy to learn with first. Learn the shooting. Then when you are ready you will know what you want in the future.

If you want to learn, not as concerned about longer distances past 500 yds and hunting, and still want to keep it simple go with .223.

[Tom Freeman]

I would go with a .260 Rem or a 6.5 Creedmoor. I am in the process of building a Creedmoor.

I had a Creedmore for a while. In fact, Zak Smith used my Tubb for his article on it. It shot well but didnt do anything my 260 barrel didnt do. And trying to chase down 6.5 CM brass wore on me. Necking up Lapua 243 Brass was easier.

I still have the 6.5 CM and 260 barrels, but the T2K is long gone.

Now days I shoot a 6mm Competition Match (kinda like a 243 half-an-Ackley) in an AI-AW. Shooting 115 gn DTAC bullets with a nice slow powder like H1000 around 3100-3200 fps is easy on barrels and brass.

[00bullitt]

I'd put alot of confidence into what Bobby is suggesting to you. His area of expertise is in long range shooting and he knows what hes talking about. Precision rifle is right up his alley.

Me...personally....I like all the calibers based off the 308 parent case. Its hard to beat the 308 for beginners. It can do just about whatever you ask of it. For match shooting....I like the 6mm bullet selection of the .243. The 6.5mm bullets also have alot to offer.

Talk to Bobby about the Desert Tactical. You can start with a 308 and later change the barrel and bolt for whatever you choose assuming the barrels are being made.

[DUKE]

If you're wanting to shoot matches like the PMC down at Hardrock, a 308 will be just fine. Ammo is more affordable and easier to find and the barrel life will be much longer than the calibers/loads with more zip.

Most of these "field precision" or "sniper" matches will have a few shots at 700-1000yds, but the vast majority of the shots will be 500yds and in. This is where the matches are usually won and lost. A 308 will do fine at these distances.

One rifle feature that will help, and you might want to consider, is bottom metal with detachable magazines. There are more folks making these now, AICS, Badger, Seekins etc.

The nice thing about starting with a 308 with detachable mag bottom metal is that you can re-barrel the rifle later (.260, 243 etc) and still use your detachable magazine system.

Another thing to consider is the weight of your rifle for these type matches. You're going to be moving around a good bit, hauling your rifle, gear etc shooting from different positions etc. A rifle with a heavy contour barrel that weighs 18+ lbs will be a burden. A Sendaro contour in 22" or 24" would be a better selection.

Lastly, don't skimp on a good optic. Plan to spend at least as much, if not more, for a good, quality scope as you do on the rifle. Plenty of good ones to chose from. Check out the "optics" forum on Sniper's Hide. You'll find plenty of info and opinions there. I've had buyer's regret on numerous firearms related purchases over the years, but I've never regretted spending $ on the very best optics I could afford. This includes spotting scopes, binocs, and rifle scopes.

Good Luck

David

Well said DT1 !

For a starter caliber I would say 308 or 260.

I love me some 260 Rem. very accurate out to a grand and not a barrel burner.

[Boats]

1000 is way different than 600 and optimal is different too. Good cartridges for 1000 are generally more powerful than needed or best for shorter ranges.

At mid range 600 and less I started years ago with 30 1906 then went to .308 and now like the 7mm 08 If I was building a new rifle today would probably pick a 6.5 mm on the 308 case smaller than 6.5 barell life becomes an issue. For a first time rifle you may be better off with a .308 lots of data and development behind it. 22's will shoot distances but I suspect it's a case of much development and specialization overcoming inherent weaknesses in such a small bullet performing at mid range.

Big question is what does the bullet have to do when it gets to the target. Rule for target shooting is always lightest recoiling cartridge that delivers the required ballistics. Holes on paper don't need much power. I never had much success trying to use my target rifles for hunting. Requirements for cartridge, weight, scope, trigger, stock, and all are totally different. Get a cheap beater rifle for hunting best you can afford for matches

Best advice I can give on wind if the match rules give you some time don't shoot when it's blowing. Bang them out when it's calm. Only wind read thats reliable is a sighter target.

Boats

Edited September 30, 2009 by Boats

[M.E.Anglin]

I had a Creedmore for a while. In fact, Zak Smith used my Tubb for his article on it. It shot well but didn't do anything my 260 barrel didnt do. And trying to chase down 6.5 CM brass wore on me. Necking up Lapua 243 Brass was easier.

I find Creedmore brass readily available now.. I can buy it locally, at a reasonable price. minimal case stretch,

and with a 139grn doing 2900 fps I hope I'll get some barrel life