Dan Sierpina Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 The one that really chaffes me is the guy on the NEXT squad who walks through while you're on deck You only have ONE guy from the next squad doing that? You're lucky! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-JQ- Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 It's not just new and inexperienced shooters. I know of plenty of seasoned shooters who get in the way of almost every shooter ahead of them doing a rehearsal out of turn. There are lots of premadonna me-first types out there. As a newbie, I run into this too...I'm not a shrinking violet but will let things go for a while...most of the time I just say "excuse me, but I'm trying to work this out..." Another similar issue is the person jumping into the start position to get one more walk thru - when it isn't their turn. I always figured this is the next shooter's time to get their head right...and I need to get my head right longer than some. Also - from the newbie side - sometimes we have so much stuff in our heads ("do this" - "don't do that" ) that we a not aware that we are doing wrong or getting in the way...just a friendly reminder should do the trick...for the old guys who continue...maybe a kick in the seat or a heavy rock in the range bag? <group hug> Dan - Chills DOES need a hug, or he wouldn't say he didn't...go ahead give him one of those Cinti PD hugs </group hug> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcarter Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 It's not just new and inexperienced shooters. I know of plenty of seasoned shooters who get in the way of almost every shooter ahead of them doing a rehearsal out of turn. There are lots of premadonna me-first types out there. As a newbie, I run into this too...I'm not a shrinking violet but will let things go for a while...most of the time I just say "excuse me, but I'm trying to work this out..." Another similar issue is the person jumping into the start position to get one more walk thru - when it isn't their turn. I always figured this is the next shooter's time to get their head right...and I need to get my head right longer than some. Also - from the newbie side - sometimes we have so much stuff in our heads ("do this" - "don't do that" ) that we a not aware that we are doing wrong or getting in the way...just a friendly reminder should do the trick...for the old guys who continue...maybe a kick in the seat or a heavy rock in the range bag? <group hug> Dan - Chills DOES need a hug, or he wouldn't say he didn't...go ahead give him one of those Cinti PD hugs </group hug> Not too many hugs being given in Cinci right now. Not much of anything is being given in Cinci right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chills1994 Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 NOTE TO SELF: stay out of Cinci. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee King Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 The one that really chaffes me is the guy on the NEXT squad who walks through while you're on deck You only have ONE guy from the next squad doing that? You're lucky! I'm being nice.. it's always the same guy.. no matter what match he manages to find ME and gets in MY walkthrough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aristotle Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 (edited) I know it works, having been on the bad end of such a comment before very early on in my short shooting career. Guess what, I stuck around AND I learned a big lesson. Not everyone is so sensitive and I'd like to think the "guys" I shoot with aren't either. I got over it. It's sort of like catching flack from your parents growing up, you hate them for it initially. Now that I'm a parent I continue to find respect for my parents for the things I heard growing up. By all means, I'm not suggesting this be your go to technique. But some folks have a different learning curve. I've never had to do this myself, but have seen this applied a number of times and have appreciated it. Before anyone thinks I don't value new shooters, I volunteered 2 hours getting 3 new shooters up to speed with a safety check, and a mini IPSC 101 class this past weekend and will spend another 3-4 hours this coming weekend to assist in a new shooters class. That's time away from my young family to get new shooters involved in our sport. I do my share around here, up to and including supplying new shooters with an entire rig from gun to holster to get them shooting. Edited August 25, 2009 by Aristotle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merlin Orr Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 "hey - just go ahead... I am sure none of the other guys waiting in line for the walk through will mind either...." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jadeslade Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 at my current level of don't give a ____ -itis I don't even care about earning people's respect any more. Wow. Maybe you should get into UFC. This is a sport that we are trying to grow. This is a really discouraging attitude. Try to be polite, it takes no energy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outerlimits Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 this stuff gets handled at the nationals level...sometimes fun to watch. Care to explain? well, the nationals is the big show. the highest percentage of shooters there understand. the ones that don't get dressed out pretty good if they cross that line-seen it happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s_gorilla45 Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 When I started shooting, I wasn't sure what the heck I was supposed to be looking for on the walkthrough. After my second stage, one of the more experienced shooters grabbed me and had me do the walk through with him. He then explained exactly what he was thinking and concentrating on while we went through all of the stages. Best education I've received at a match. While I'm not at that point in my shooting and planning ability to help that much, I always try to help out those that look more lost than I do. I'm also outspoken enough that I will follow up with those shooters that jump the line even if it isn't in front of me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chills1994 Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 Jadeslade wrote: Wow. Maybe you should get into UFC. This is a sport that we are trying to grow. This is a really discouraging attitude. Try to be polite, it takes no energy. Oh, sorry, that was little out of context on my end. That comment was more directed to some old hats and actually how they interacted with a noobie that Extremeshot and I are trying to "break in". Longevity does not necessarily = automatic respect in my book. This noobie that Extremeshot and I are showing the ropes to has had both his elbows operated on and he can't lift something really heavy like a pepper popper. I think an old hat tried to get on his case about not helping breakdown the stages at the end of the match. Instead he was picking up brass. My attitude is in NO way projected like that towards noobies. Extremeshot and I have actually gone out of our way to bring noobies into the sport via Extremeshot's father's church. Extremeshot put together this really slick power point presentation on USPSA. I did a powerpoint presentation on IDPA. And, IIRC, we both covered steel challenge. Then at a later date, I loaded up my entire reloading bench and my 550 and a single stage RCBS press and put on a reloading demonstration to about the same crowd of people at the same church. All that said... unfortunately, still, I think the biggest obstacle to "growing the sport" is the initial and big expense. Even moreso in this economy. With regards to the noobs... I still try to help out when I can with little hints here and there. Like when they put their mags in their pouches backwards. Or just a friendly reminder that if the righties move right to left in a field course and try to do a reload on the move, they stand a pretty good chance of breaking the 180. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkCO Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 Especially at a local match, adopt the new shooter and coach him through the entire match. Helps the new shooter, keeps him off the nerves of the old cranky shooters (some of y'all need a chill pill) and everyone is happy. The new shooter goes and spews all of this new found excitement to his friends and they come along next time. Or else, like some of you said, cut him down, chew him out, and ensure a one match bad taste and no growth of the sport. We are getting attacked for what we do, we can't afford to be a crotchety old fraternity that won't explain the unwritten rules and then kicks the noobie in the head for not knowing any better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Stevens Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 When I used to work stages at Area and National events on more than one occasion I have had to look at a shooter and ask "Are you in this squad?" After getting a quiet "No" I just say "Then you need to leave". I think the RO crew should make every attempt to keep interlopers out of the stage while others are shooting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jadeslade Posted August 25, 2009 Share Posted August 25, 2009 Oh, sorry, that was little out of context on my end. That comment was more directed to some old hats and actually how they interacted with a noobie that Extremeshot and I are trying to "break in". Longevity does not necessarily = automatic respect in my book. This noobie that Extremeshot and I are showing the ropes to has had both his elbows operated on and he can't lift something really heavy like a pepper popper. I think an old hat tried to get on his case about not helping breakdown the stages at the end of the match. Instead he was picking up brass. Cool. My bad. I'm not so good with the intricateness of human behavior. I think I know what you mean now. I have taken to just standing off to the side inside the shooting area and mentally doing the walk through with my eyes closed until the sharpshooters have all the tactics perfect. I probably would appreciate someone with no problem saying "listen up little darlings-everybody gets to walk through, no cutting, and no grab ass in the shower". I have a hard enough time keeping my own kit together. On the street I'm hell on wheels, but this is competition-different arena. Shoot well. See you soon, I hope. Ciao. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-ManBart Posted August 25, 2009 Author Share Posted August 25, 2009 Especially at a local match, adopt the new shooter and coach him through the entire match. Helps the new shooter, keeps him off the nerves of the old cranky shooters (some of y'all need a chill pill) and everyone is happy. The new shooter goes and spews all of this new found excitement to his friends and they come along next time. Or else, like some of you said, cut him down, chew him out, and ensure a one match bad taste and no growth of the sport. We are getting attacked for what we do, we can't afford to be a crotchety old fraternity that won't explain the unwritten rules and then kicks the noobie in the head for not knowing any better. Absolutely! I'm far from the best shooter out there, but I think I can do a good job of helping a newbie through a match and will help as much as possible. I've done the same thing with not so new shooters who are trying to get better...sort of do the "this is what I'm thinking about here" sort of approach. I probably haven't thought to talk about the walk through process to them before, or at least not in detail, so I'll change that. I've been guilty of being in the way before....we all have, I'm sure. Sometimes you'll get to a spot and it isn't clear or you've missed something or you're just confused. When that happens I'll usually let the person right behind me go past and try to take another fast look or move back so that they can do their thing while I sort of look around them. The biggest thing is that for most folks who are a little more experienced, if we find ourselves in the way we usually realize it and will say a quick "sorry" and get out of the way. It's not so much that someone is in the way once or twice, it's just when it's over and over and they don't realize it that it gets annoying. Some good info here so I'm going to add a post on the "Tips for Newbies" thread about walk throughs with some more details. R, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlamoShooter Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 Sometimes its just a mater of the guy getting excited and forgetful , I have gotten in the way before and had to have someone wake me up. I have been at an -out of town- match and had the same two guys step ahead and tie up the stage, to the point that they even =tried= it when I was up next during taping. Its as worst as having loud Direction on what target to shoot from what position. The best memories are of squads that agreed ahead of time how to rotate and how to act. so that shooter Steve does not have to tell John he is in his way = everyone in the squad tell John. Its called watching out for each other. My best days are when I start the event by letting the squad know " If or when , I get in the way please let me know" ....And ...I will make the rest of you the same promise I like it when someone smiles when they see me , instead of turning away Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CJDOUBLETAP Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 I'll help you with the line cutters if you help me with the non-match participants who show up a half hour before the match ends to come in and whore up all our brass off the bays...as we are still trying to shoot and/or put props away. Man, don't even get started with this... Nothing I hate more... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-ManBart Posted August 26, 2009 Author Share Posted August 26, 2009 I like it when someone smiles when they see me , instead of turning away I thought everybody smiled when they saw you? I just added a related post to the Tips for Newbies thread if anybody wants to add anything: http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?...t&p=1045355 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Griffin Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 As always, I'll throw in the lefty perspective. Sometimes we have to shoot a stage in the opposite direction, please let us get a couple of passes where we don't have to weave through the entire train of right-handed shooters, and don't give us dirty looks when we come around the corner from the other direction. H. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BSeevers Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 (edited) I just tell them. Hey heres my favorite two along these lines. I see 10 year M's doing this. Stealth a field course that has an exit at the end. Instead of going out the door and walking up through the empty stage, they turn around and walk up the hallway ruining the next couple guys run through. Are you that Unaware? The other is a big box with side to side movement. Everybody starts piling in the box doing the 3 Stooges until you say hey"one in the box at a time guys" Its really fun with one lefty thrown in there. Edited August 26, 2009 by BSeevers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shred Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 Send em to the World Shoot? Cutting in line will get you trampled in a hurry. They get strict about the Conga line there. Actually, I think the problem is just one of basic education. New Shooters should be instructed that we generally take turns on the walkthrough so as not to get in each others way. The trouble is getting the rest of the squad to provide a good example Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IC_Cyclone Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 I'm the novice shooter that was wandering, apparently aimlessly, around during the walkthrough at my first match back in June. Didn't really know what I was looking at. I'm pretty sure I was in everyone's way. If you were on my squad, sorry. While the rule book is a great resource, the unwritten rules and ettiquite are dififcult for a novice to pick up. They also change from region to region and range to range. I think I speak for alot of new shooters: if I'm doing something wrong say something. If I'm unsafe DQ me and tell me it's good form to stay and paste targets. Be polite if you want but it's not necessary. This game is a blast...I'll still come back. Thanks to the OP for this thread, and everyone for their contributions to the beginners section and the tips for new shooters Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chills1994 Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 CJDOUBLETAP wrote: QUOTE (Chills1994 @ Aug 25 2009, 12:25 AM) I'll help you with the line cutters if you help me with the non-match participants who show up a half hour before the match ends to come in and whore up all our brass off the bays...as we are still trying to shoot and/or put props away. Man, don't even get started with this... Nothing I hate more... Back in 2006, we had a larger steel plate match. We shot 5 stages in the morning and 5 in the afternoon. After the first 5, we broke for lunch and we all headed to a local restaurant. Well, while we were gone to lunch, some family pulled up in a large conversion van and split up and went to all the stages and stole our brass. We got back from lunch and were about ready to move the steel targets around and we were like, "Where did all our brass go?" And then a year later, at a larger IDPA match, as the squad of SO's who shot on the first day of the match left one bay and headed to another bay, some ______ would duck into the now empty bay and whore up all the brass. Jeesh.... the nerve of some people.... If it is not yours, don't touch it...don't take it. To do otherwise is larceny in my book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slabbie Shooter Posted August 27, 2009 Share Posted August 27, 2009 I just pick the junior G man squad and don't worry about pissing off the old dogs! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimmyZip Posted August 27, 2009 Share Posted August 27, 2009 "hey - just go ahead... I am sure none of the other guys waiting in line for the walk through will mind either...." I hate to say this, but this is how I was told. Yes I was embarassed, but I said sorry and did not repeat. I actually have learned to look at what the other shooters are looking at while waiting my turn. This was polite and to the point. It didn't come across as anything but. JZ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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