38 special in a 1911

[Craig-2008]

I would like to build a 38 special 1911. Has anybody seen the barrols for a colt, or has built one? I enjoy shooting my 1911, and enjoyed shooting the colt mid-range wadcutter gun that I owned many years ago. I have a 40 S&W 1911, I belive all I need is a barrol and some mags,and a little help.

[steel1212]

Do you mean 38 super? If so what brand .40 1911 do you have? I know the springfields breechface won't work, or work well trying to drop in a 38 super barrel in there and vise versa.

[Craig-2008]

colt 38 special mid range wadcutter gun. It shoots 38 special wadcutter ammo

[steel1212]

Well I learn something new every day!

[Larry White]

Some of the bullseye guys shot that combo years ago. I believe they never took off because of problems getting them to run. I think Clarks had some success with them. S&W had a 38 wadcutter semi auto, factory gun. Still see them around some, might be a better option.----------------Larry

Edited August 11, 2009 by Larry White

[UW Mitch]

Didn't Coonan or something like that make a 38spl also?

~Mitch

[Shawn Knight]

Yes Coonan did. Magazines are the main issue. Clack did some major modifications to get them to run.

http://www.clarkcustomguns.com/gandy.htm

Edited August 11, 2009 by Shawn Knight

[CSEMARTIN]

I would like to build a 38 special 1911.

and a little help.

http://www.clarkcustomguns.com/gandy.htm

Welcome to the forum Craig!

This thread, for me, epitomizes why I love this forum. I had never heard of a .38 special 1911. And when I saw this thread, I thought to myself--"Craig...buddy....you gonna need a lot of help".

Then I see Shawn's post and realize just how ignorant I am. Just when I think I've seen it all......

[Guy Neill]

At one time, as I recall, Colt offered their Gold Cup in 38 Special (wadcutters only).

Guy

[leam]

Yup, I know a friend who has one of the 38 SPL Colts. Another friend just paid $1800 for one on Gun Broker.

I think there's some frame ramp differences, but haven't really checked. Maybe a venture on m1911.org forums would turn up the answers you need.

Leam

[boz1911]

At one time, as I recall, Colt offered their Gold Cup in 38 Special (wadcutters only).

Guy

I had one of those, it was fun to shoot but I only had one mag and I think it only held like 6 rounds. I still have some of the ammo left I had for it, full wadcutters. I wish I hadn't sold it...

[Dan Sierpina]

I would like to build a 38 special 1911. Has anybody seen the barrols for a colt, or has built one? I enjoy shooting my 1911, and enjoyed shooting the colt mid-range wadcutter gun that I owned many years ago. I have a 40 S&W 1911, I belive all I need is a barrol and some mags,and a little help.

I had built 4 of them for customers a long time ago. The mags were a slight stumbling block, but not insurmountable. The 10MM / .40 S&W breach face works with the .38 Special. Clark and Kart made barrels, and still may. Contacting them directly will tell. Gil Hebard carried the Kart barrels to, I believe. I seem to recall seeing mags in Brownells too. Also, I had to lighten the BoMar ribs that the guys wanted. I took metal out from the bottom so it looked normal. All the guns ran fine and were accurate.

[MikeFoley]

I have fired the Coonan .357 magnum 1911s, and they seemed to feed and function just fine. The wadcutter guns have been in used for bullseye since the 1950s, and you can modify Wilson mags to work with them.

[NCShooter]

Same here. Had 3 mags and the target grips too. REALLY wish I hadn't sold it.

At one time, as I recall, Colt offered their Gold Cup in 38 Special (wadcutters only).

Guy

I had one of those, it was fun to shoot but I only had one mag and I think it only held like 6 rounds. I still have some of the ammo left I had for it, full wadcutters. I wish I hadn't sold it...

[G-ManBart]

Same here. Had 3 mags and the target grips too. REALLY wish I hadn't sold it.

In case anybody is wondering, that's not a 1911....it's a S&W Model 52.

[Dan Sierpina]

Same here. Had 3 mags and the target grips too. REALLY wish I hadn't sold it.

In case anybody is wondering, that's not a 1911....it's a S&W Model 52.

Yep, it is. Model 52 mags only held 5 rounds, unless modified. Some PPC shooters around here used them, and needed the mags tweeked to hold 6.

[NCShooter]

You are correct. I misread a post above and thought someone else was talking about a Model 52. I still wish I hadn't sold it.

Same here. Had 3 mags and the target grips too. REALLY wish I hadn't sold it.

In case anybody is wondering, that's not a 1911....it's a S&W Model 52.

[chirpy]

I had one the was built by Giles. Deadly accurate for shooting Bullseye 2700 Centerfire matches. You might be able to find one for sale from a Bullseye shooter. The one I had was built on a .38 super base gun using highly modified .38 super mags. I believe the .38 super barrel was re-chambered for .38 spl. but it's been so long I'm not 100% sure. It was a fun gun to shoot but a 9mm or .38 super would work as well and be cheaper.

FWIW

Richard

[diablodawg]

There seems to be quite a few guys on here who have or had and loved a .38spl 1911.... my question is why? What does a .38spl 1911 do that a 9mm, .40 or .45 (or 38super, 10mm, etc.) can't do? I guess I don't get it. Novelty factor? Ammo cost?

[G-ManBart]

There seems to be quite a few guys on here who have or had and loved a .38spl 1911.... my question is why? What does a .38spl 1911 do that a 9mm, .40 or .45 (or 38super, 10mm, etc.) can't do? I guess I don't get it. Novelty factor? Ammo cost?

If you put it in historical perspective it makes sense. Most of the guns mentioned were probably made in the 50s and 60s and into the 70s. There was no .40 or 10mm at the time, 38 Super had a poor accuracy reputation because they headspaced on the semi-rim and 9mm was still pretty uncommon in this country. So, if you wanted to shoot an auto in bullseye you shot 1911 .45, got a Model 52 and shot .38Spl or had a 1911 modified to shoot .38Spl. That was pretty much it as far as choices went. R,

[Dan Sierpina]

There seems to be quite a few guys on here who have or had and loved a .38spl 1911.... my question is why? What does a .38spl 1911 do that a 9mm, .40 or .45 (or 38super, 10mm, etc.) can't do? I guess I don't get it. Novelty factor? Ammo cost?

If you put it in historical perspective it makes sense. Most of the guns mentioned were probably made in the 50s and 60s and into the 70s. There was no .40 or 10mm at the time, 38 Super had a poor accuracy reputation because they headspaced on the semi-rim and 9mm was still pretty uncommon in this country. So, if you wanted to shoot an auto in bullseye you shot 1911 .45, got a Model 52 and shot .38Spl or had a 1911 modified to shoot .38Spl. That was pretty much it as far as choices went. R,

Actually, it was to have guns with the same feel. High Standard .22's were very popular. The Military grip version had the grip angle the same as a 1911. A centerfire pistol, that was smaller than .45 could have a lighter trigger than a .45, and would have less recoil. Then a .45 would finish the guns needed for a 2700 match.

A model 52 grip angle is much different than a 1911, why not have one that matches it? This is also the reason for Kart and Day .22 conversions.

[uscbigdawg]

One of my buddies from college used to shoot steel matches with his Coonan with 357 Mag loaded. 38 Special if you pissed him off.

They run great and are well built.

Rich

[G-ManBart]

There seems to be quite a few guys on here who have or had and loved a .38spl 1911.... my question is why? What does a .38spl 1911 do that a 9mm, .40 or .45 (or 38super, 10mm, etc.) can't do? I guess I don't get it. Novelty factor? Ammo cost?

If you put it in historical perspective it makes sense. Most of the guns mentioned were probably made in the 50s and 60s and into the 70s. There was no .40 or 10mm at the time, 38 Super had a poor accuracy reputation because they headspaced on the semi-rim and 9mm was still pretty uncommon in this country. So, if you wanted to shoot an auto in bullseye you shot 1911 .45, got a Model 52 and shot .38Spl or had a 1911 modified to shoot .38Spl. That was pretty much it as far as choices went. R,

Actually, it was to have guns with the same feel. High Standard .22's were very popular. The Military grip version had the grip angle the same as a 1911. A centerfire pistol, that was smaller than .45 could have a lighter trigger than a .45, and would have less recoil. Then a .45 would finish the guns needed for a 2700 match.

A model 52 grip angle is much different than a 1911, why not have one that matches it? This is also the reason for Kart and Day .22 conversions.

Dan,

I'm not discounting that it was to have guns that felt the same, but my point was that there weren't any alternatives at the time. You shot a revolver, a 1911 or a M52 for centerfire...that was about it. So sure, if you wanted your rimfire and centerfire to feel the same and you wanted to shoot something milder a .38Spl modification to a 1911 made sense. Nobody would bother doing that now with all the available options out there. R,

[P.E. Kelley]

Early Colt Gov't 1911A1 converted from 38 super to 38 spl. wadcutter by F. Bob Chow.

The alteration of the super mags to run the wadcutters musta been a bitch!

Patrick

[R112mercer]

Allegedly Kart still makes .38 Special 1911 barrels. They're not listed in Brownells or Midway but I read that Gil Hebard might have them (couldn't find a website for him, though).

As to why a 1911 in .38 Special, I have a S&W M52 and it's a sweeeet shootin' gun. The .38 full wadcutter round is dirt cheap, super accurate, and does it all in a low pressure round. I can't imagine a 1911 properly set-up being much different from the M52, outside of grip angle, etc.

FWIW, the 1911's in .38 Special preceded the M52, as they were made for the reason Dan said: Same set-up as the 1911, one less gun to learn to shoot. For those not into Bullseye, the 2700 consists of three matches of 90 rounds each (3 guns X 90 rounds X 10 points per round equals 2700) with the civilian's .22, the cop's .38 (or centerfire gun, more precisely), and the soldier's .45. When the game was first played guys used the literal equipment, usually a Colt, High Standard, or S&W .22, a .38 revolver, and a 1911 .45.

The revolver can be tough to shoot in the rapid fire match, so guys sought to find a semi-auto to compete with. The .38 Special 1911 and later the S&W M52 were among some of the solutions, but nowadays most guys just shoot the 1911 in .45 twice (since the .45 ACP IS a centerfire round).

Good luck, and let us know how it turns out!