Race Holsters

[zhunter]

Personally, if the rules changed, it would not be a big deal, as everyone would be drawing for the same, and much safer equipment.

And yes, I am NOT an Open shooter

edited to add: I voted for the lock mechanism engaged until buzzer goes off

Edited May 26, 2009 by zhunter

[uscbigdawg]

I voted to let it go as socializing equipment in OPEN is well...silly. You can't legislate morality (well...you shouldn't) and even on an uber retention holster, if there's a way for something to come out, it will.

Rich

[JThompson]

Oh Z you are asking for it now...

[Matt Cheely]

I don't think we should disallow race holsters, but I would not be opposed to a retention test.

[Joe4d]

I didnt vote, you need to define race holster, there's a hole gray area from one extreme to the other. A retention standard might work, but using vague terms like "race holster" will lead down the road of an approved holster list which didnt work for IDPA and wont work for us. Then you'd need some rule about modifications to holsters, also nearly impossible to write. Open is open what kinda rule is gonna address a new sight or mount that wont fit an approved holster.

[Chris Keen]

One isolated incident, and we need to change the rules? Let it be.

What's next? Minimum 2 pound triggers in Open? No running?

[UW Mitch]

I like my Guga Ribas for my open gun, but Bladetech for everything else.

~Mitch

[Flexmoney]

Well...we have all seen more than one instance.

And, really...that aren't all that practical.

I don't see them going away. And, I don't know that that I'd want to see it happen...

But, I do realize that a "race" holster gains me absolutely zero performance in probably about half the stages that we shooting in USPSA. (Rocking chair starts, gun on table, kneeling down touching your shoe, back to the wall...etc)

Heck, maybe less than that. If I am moving out of the start position on the draw, I favor a more secure holster...even on a close "blaster" target.

There is something to be said for a secure holster.

[VegasOPM]

Why add rules? The shooters are already accountable for the safety of their gear. If the gun falls out, the competitor DQ's- nuff said.

I just started to shoot Open. I like my Limcat holster (which is actually very secure) and I like my 14oz trigger. I isn't the holster's fault if my gun falls out and it isn't the gun's fault if I have an AD.

[zhunter]

39 of 47 say let it go. Open shooters must gravitate to threads that say Race holster

[SA Friday]

One isolated incident, and we need to change the rules? Let it be.

What's next? Minimum 2 pound triggers in Open? No running?

No, an approved holster list followed by a FTDR rule.

I don't shoot open. I don't even have an open gun. The rules are fine.

[XRe]

I have seen so called "safe" holsters lose their guns in a variety of fashions, much the same as the "race" holsters. A retention test would be most revealing. My CR Speed passes all the old retention tests (jump down from an 18" box... do a forward somersault....). I have seen more than a handful of "safe" holsters that wouldn't pass one of those two tests...

Stop tilting at windmills. You're wasting your time.

[Shawn Knight]

I only have problems with people that don't train with their equipment.

They buy really nice gear and don't get to know how to use it porperly, dump their gun on the ground, and then complain about the holster not working.

I have a CR holster and I am not confident with it only because I don't use it enough and am not currently training with it. I can see how some users would be very unsafe with it if they never use it or train with it.

On the other hand...

I love watching people forget they have it locked.

[smokshwn]

Well...we have all seen more than one instance.

And, really...that aren't all that practical.

I don't see them going away. And, I don't know that that I'd want to see it happen...

But, I do realize that a "race" holster gains me absolutely zero performance in probably about half the stages that we shooting in USPSA. (Rocking chair starts, gun on table, kneeling down touching your shoe, back to the wall...etc)

Heck, maybe less than that. If I am moving out of the start position on the draw, I favor a more secure holster...even on a close "blaster" target.

There is something to be said for a secure holster.

One of the biggest misconceptions out there is that the "race" holsters are faster. Maybe/Maybe not. What I do know is that it is the only option for Open shooters short of some cobbled together homemade jobbie that would have its own level of "security" issues.

[boz1911]

Just set it free Z, set it free

[uscbigdawg]

I go back to that Open shooters aren't the only ones using "race" holsters. Last time I checked, one could use the same "race" holster in 3 divisions.

Rich

[VegasOPM]

I go back to that Open shooters aren't the only ones using "race" holsters. Last time I checked, one could use the same "race" holster in 3 divisions.

Rich

And if you actually shoot IPSC, you can even use those "race" holsters in Production.

[mactiger]

I vote for leaving them alone. The incident that spawned this poll ( I believe ) was not the holster or the competitor's fault. The RO knocked it out. Some things you just can't control.

Troy

[el pres]

I shoot Limited with a DOH but I'm going to have to call it "Dont be a Player Hater" !!

I shoot a lot of 3gun and have seen "many" Open shooters pull their pistol out with the shotgun

speedloader and a Ghost, but I have also seen guys loose for example, a perfectly good XD out

of a DOH on a run, Dont know how but I've seen it !!

[norbs007]

They've been around for years, used by IPSC shooters worldwide and not just Open shooters. Anyway you put it boils down to human error when a gun falls out. Using a less or non-secured holster still points to the human who decided to use it. What happened to "It's the Indian, not the arrow" or "Guns don't kill people, people kill people" (sorry if that's too harsh). True that race holsters are more prone to accidents; and that's where we humans should make sure to prevent it. I guess it's obvious where I stand.

[G-ManBart]

I don't think the rules should be changed (as in prohibiting them), but I wouldnt mind a retention test either. I also don't think they offer a much faster draw for the vast majority of what we do. I can do 1 flat or sub-1 second draws all day long out of a DOH and the holster has never been the limiting factor. Heck, I've got video of sub-1 second draws out of a single stack righ the the front strap above the top of the belt. The only thing I will say is that with an Open gun their size and shape make them hard to put in a position similar to what you'd get with a DOH and a Limited gun. Not being a tall guy, even if I could modify something like a DOH for an Open gun it would still be boring a hole into my leg/thigh and the long draw movement upwards probably would slow me down a bit. R,

[kgunz11]

There is something to be said for a secure holster.

Show me one and I'll buy two, one for me and one for you! IMO, the holster is only as secure as the person using it. "Safe" and "secure" should go hand in hand here. *I* know how to make my Ghost holster both, but not my Bladetech (which are great holsters BTW).

[AWLAZS]

I voted let it go. I still have not found a holster that I feel comfortable with in all situations

[Graham Smith]

Frankly, I don't like and don't trust many of the "race holsters" I have seen. They look entirely too much like a gun balancing on it's nose. But I also think that as safety minded as IPSC is, they would have disallowed them long ago if they posed a significant hazard.

[Lee King]

It's a shame we don't have some emperical data on dropped gun incidents. I'd be curious to know which holsters are most drop prone with actual hard numbers behind it. Even within the "race" holster type I'd be curious as to whether one brand stands out more than another.

I think it would be a logistical PITA but in the interest of safety perhaps DQ incidents should be reported to USPSA to collect said information. Maybe even go a step further and include non-DQ gun drops. I.e. competitor drops his gun between COF and follows proper procedures.

I use both a "race" holster and a Bladetech (one for USPSA, the other for 3 gun). It's a choice for me. I've had 2 types of "race" holsters and did DQ with one. I switched to another type and decided if, during dry fire I could make it drop I would switch to the Bladetech exclusively. I tried every type of hip twist, jump, bump I could and couldn't get it to fall unless it went straight up. I even whacked it from behind. The "other" holster did have a lock, but frankly, with enough force you could defeat it in almost any direction. Additionally, the design of the lock did not lend itself to a quick unlock and therefore discouraged it's use even in situations where I really wanted to have that extra security.

I didn't realize it initially, but the design of my current holster includes a "hook" that sticks out when the gun is seated that goes through the trigger guard. I wouldn't claim it is the safest design. But when compared to my "old" holster, I now see obvious weaknesses in the other holster. In actual use, I've been bumped, whacked, even had a car door smack the butt of my gun and it hasn't failed me. I hate to lump all holster types into the "unsafe" group because one design has weaknesses others do not.