Jay6 Posted September 22, 2008 Share Posted September 22, 2008 I am looking for ways to maybe open the door for more LEO's to come shoot at our local matches. I thought about sending a letter to local PD's inviting them to a match or possible holding one just or them in order to get them interested. Since this seems like a largely untapped group of shooters in our area I think it would be positive for everyone involved. Anyone tried anything similar or have any words of wisdom? I want to try and stay away from offering a free shoot which might upset our other attendees but I am looking for a way to "get our foot in the door" so to speak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taco101 Posted September 22, 2008 Share Posted September 22, 2008 I know that around here it is easier to pull teeth than to get cops out to shoot. I am an instructor for a medium sized Sheriff's office. I offered free ammo to shoot a match. All the guys had to do was show up. Not one. I get lots of excuses, but I believe the underlying cause is that the guys are afraid of being embarrassed. Those that do come out, often don't come back. Ego is a powerful thing.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bdpaz Posted September 22, 2008 Share Posted September 22, 2008 Others have tried and it looks like it isn't easy: http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=61192 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougCarden Posted September 22, 2008 Share Posted September 22, 2008 Testify, brother..... Find the LEOs that want to shoot and/or compete and take care of them with ammo, photocopies of articles that helped you, copies of magazines, etc. If they are gonna drink, they will come to the well themselves.....unfortunately.... Keep up the good fight! DougC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve J Posted September 22, 2008 Share Posted September 22, 2008 Our range owner has invited local departments to our night matches. No takers. His neighbor and one of our club members is a State Trooper corporal. He regularly comes to our night matches. A couple of his troopers have come to our regular matches once. No return business. One of our club members is a Lieutenant in a local PD. He's an active IDPA master class shooter. At his request we ran all of his officers through our IDPA stages in duty gear, the day before the match. They loved it. Their training sergeant was all excited about the possibly of even using training dollars to pay for match fees. We haven't seen any of them since. The LEOs that are competitive shooters are great. The rest tend to come once and never again. That may simply reflect the population as a whole where competitive shooting is concerned. I'm continually amazed by the number of pistol plinkers at the range while a match is going on (USPSA, IDPA, Steel) and who don't show any interest or curiosity at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshF Posted September 22, 2008 Share Posted September 22, 2008 Getting Leo's to take interest in shooting sports seems to be hit and miss. I've noticed those who are in more senior positions tend to be the guys attending our matches. We have a Military base close by with an Officer School and we get quite a few guys competing from there. Sometimes as many as 10-12 which is nice to see. They accept where they are skill level (most quite good) and aim to make themselves better no matter what "Game" they play. One of the Majors that shot with us actually used practical shooting as training for his troops and encouraged them to accompany him to matches. His responsibilities included training guys in MITT teams. I feel better knowing people like him are using all available methods and far more intense training then typical to get these guys prepped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HI5-O Posted September 22, 2008 Share Posted September 22, 2008 Where I work, we put on a "Turkey Shoot" and set up USPSA/IPSC type stages (3 gun). The department provides the ammo and guns. Of the two-three handfuls of shooters that show up, most say they would like to do more of that type of shooting. I tell them about the local club that shoots on Sundays. Guess how many show up to the local matches... Zero...0...nuting...... Lot of excuses are made...I had to work...Who is providing the ammo?...Am I going to get paid?...It's not tactical... Found out (most) policemen would rather shoot with their own kind because they can take the teasing from a fellow officer instead of from a "civilian". I think if your club would get permission from the local Chief of Police or Sheriff and put on a match for the officers on their range with department ammo you probably would get quite a few of them showing up. Then you can pitch the local matches with the clubs. Might work. ba Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sgtis108 Posted September 22, 2008 Share Posted September 22, 2008 I am the Training Sergeant/Range Master for a State agency. Good luck getting LEO'S out to shoot. Most, in my expirence don't want to shoot the one time a year they are required too. The only luck I've had is with my instructors. After a year or so of me talking to them about USPSA, and showing them pics of the match, and trophies, and stories, I break them down into giving it a go. Of course I provide the gear so that they are comfortable with there equipment. One stage and they are hooked. I think what gets them back the 2nd and 3rd times is having me ask them questions all week about what they are going to do to improve and how what they learned applies to our job. Been at it for years and I think EGO is the key word. LEO's don't want to look bad, of course most are not willing to put the work in to excell. Funny aint it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PINMAN44 Posted September 22, 2008 Share Posted September 22, 2008 Trying to get cops in my area involved is like getting cats to bathe in water. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe4d Posted September 22, 2008 Share Posted September 22, 2008 Being a Cop has absolutely nothing to do with firearm skill level or interest in firearms. I carry a pen in my pocket all day that doesnt make me an expert novelist. I can understand the average citizen thinking being a cop makes you a gun expert. How many times have you heard , "well so and so is a cop so he knows everything about guns" I think cops are just a cross section of their communities some can shoot and are interested in shooting recreational sports most cant and arnt. Even thoughs that give lip service to being interested just like other jobs most will never show up at a match. They are just not interested enough to participate. LEO's also dont deserve handouts any more than any one else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwx40x40 Posted September 22, 2008 Share Posted September 22, 2008 Being a Cop has absolutely nothing to do with firearm skill level or interest in firearms. I carry a pen in my pocket all day that doesnt make me an expert novelist. I can understand the average citizen thinking being a cop makes you a gun expert. How many times have you heard , "well so and so is a cop so he knows everything about guns" I think cops are just a cross section of their communities some can shoot and are interested in shooting recreational sports most cant and arnt. Even thoughs that give lip service to being interested just like other jobs most will never show up at a match. They are just not interested enough to participate. LEO's also dont deserve handouts any more than any one else. Kinda have a tendency to agree with Joe. People regardless of there vocation either have an interest in shooting sports or not. My working peers and I have finally reached an agreement. They quit asking me to play golf and I quit asking them to come shoot a match. The shooters I have drug out to matches very seldom come back , even at no cost to them . I provided guns , ammo, and only asked the pay the match fee. But , the guys that found us on the internet (USPSA.org)or saw match coverage on Shooting Gallery or Shooting USA are the kind I like. They come thirsty to shoot and want to learn all they can. Most if greeted properly are hooked and come back for more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasmap Posted September 22, 2008 Share Posted September 22, 2008 (edited) Being a Cop has absolutely nothing to do with firearm skill level or interest in firearms. I carry a pen in my pocket all day that doesnt make me an expert novelist. I can understand the average citizen thinking being a cop makes you a gun expert. How many times have you heard , "well so and so is a cop so he knows everything about guns" I think cops are just a cross section of their communities some can shoot and are interested in shooting recreational sports most cant and arnt. Even thoughs that give lip service to being interested just like other jobs most will never show up at a match. They are just not interested enough to participate. LEO's also dont deserve handouts any more than any one else. Huh? I'm not sure this answers his question Joe. Jay, If you have a local LEO involved then he/she could maybe pursue using a match as a training day or admin day for officers or possibly just a unit such as their ERT/SWAT/HRT. I know your pain as I'm LE but luckily we have several LEO's here in AZ that are shooters but very few within my agency. Edited September 22, 2008 by jasmap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JKSNIPER Posted September 22, 2008 Share Posted September 22, 2008 Just about everyone here is 100% right on the money with getting LEO's to shoot in matches. You have to remember that over 20 years ago the department academy classes were made up of more ex-military guys than the last couple years. Now with the Iraq/Afghanistan wars on terror going on we will again see a shift in the demographics but for now most cops are NOT "gun guys". We have officers assigned to our tactical team that don't like to go shoot when they're told to. Try and get them out to a shoot on their day off. Good luck. Joe4d ..ABSOLUTELY right. Just because they carry a weapon don't think the average cop knows any more about it than any one here. I would bet that 90% of the guys/gals here know more about their weapons they use at matches than the average cop knows about his/her sidearm. Whoever it was posting about the fear of their ego being bruised is also 100% right. You'd have to DRAG guys to matches. They are so afraid of looking bad in front of people that it could almost be classified as a phobia. I was trying to get our guys to go to a match and was speaking to the boss about it when he suddenly asked "What if they don't do well? What if they look bad?" I said "They're big boys...I'm sure they'll get over it." The boss would not go for it because of the possibility of a guy not shooting well at the match and (in his mind) this would make us look bad somehow. There's also myths and misconceptions about USPSA/IPSC/IDPA shooting matches that you guys/gals can help dispense with. The most common one is probably the belief that "Unless I have 3 grand to spend on a tricked out gun I can't compete with these guys and win." Keep trying to get L.E. guys interested. If you can get one or 2 then you have a chance on getting more. Reality is that those one or 2 may be all you get. My agency is the 12th largest in the nation. We have over 2,000 sworn officers and I'll bet that theres less than 20 of them that shoot in rifle/pistol matches. JK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viggen Posted September 22, 2008 Share Posted September 22, 2008 Instead wasting energy in trying to get an obviously uninterested market segment (LEO), which the thread certainly shows, we should refocus on drawing people from groups that are a good potential market for us. What is our market? What sort of folks are drawn to our sport? What's the demographic? It's a bit of an offshoot from the original question but at the core it's the same, how can we get more folks to shoot matches with us? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sgtis108 Posted September 23, 2008 Share Posted September 23, 2008 Being a Cop has absolutely nothing to do with firearm skill level or interest in firearms. I carry a pen in my pocket all day that doesnt make me an expert novelist. I can understand the average citizen thinking being a cop makes you a gun expert. How many times have you heard , "well so and so is a cop so he knows everything about guns" I think cops are just a cross section of their communities some can shoot and are interested in shooting recreational sports most cant and arnt. Even thoughs that give lip service to being interested just like other jobs most will never show up at a match. They are just not interested enough to participate. LEO's also dont deserve handouts any more than any one else. Being a Cop has nothing to do with firearm skill level, but if it is your means of keeping the public or yourself safe it certainly should. That is my beef with my peers. We all choose our own profession and if someone has no interest in a primary tool of their job, then it makes me wonder about them. It would be like a fireman disliking ladders or hoses To get back on topic, I have no idea how to get more LEO's to shoot. I do my part, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobMoore Posted September 23, 2008 Share Posted September 23, 2008 I have a hard time even getting fellow instructors interested in competitive shooting, and for the most part they are gun people. Cops in general are not. They don't want to spend their weekends shooting matches or practicing. The vast majority don't even own a gun apart from their issued sidearm, and that is merely a tool they have to qualify with once in a while, and otherwise ignore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin c Posted September 23, 2008 Share Posted September 23, 2008 I knew a fellow who was into guns and wanted to be a cop. He told me he was turned down because he had TOO MUCH interest in guns... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shooterbenedetto Posted September 23, 2008 Share Posted September 23, 2008 (edited) I am looking for ways to maybe open the door for more LEO's to come shoot at our local matches. I thought about sending a letter to local PD's inviting them to a match or possible holding one just or them in order to get them interested. Since this seems like a largely untapped group of shooters in our area I think it would be positive for everyone involved. Anyone tried anything similar or have any words of wisdom? I want to try and stay away from offering a free shoot which might upset our other attendees but I am looking for a way to "get our foot in the door" so to speak. I know a few swat members,Narcotics division in long beach agency, about 8 or more long beach police, a few sherrifs and other cop agency who shoots at Norco, Ca. Most of them are slow but VERY ACCURATE SHOOTERS!!it is the way they are trained. Survial! Also, I guess some are hooked into the IPSC game? anyways, I don't blame cops not going to any shooting event. I know I wont and rather spend time with my family.It is a stressful job. It depends on an individual if he has the IPSC BUG!!! and if you do, you'll find ways to feed it. Shoot in early morning and be out of there by lunch time!! By the way, handling a gun is not all the skills you need to being a cop.For the most part, You'll need more of reasoning skills, car chasing, writing reports and physical shape etc...to keep you alive to do that job! SALUTE TO ALL THE COPS IN THIS COUNTRY! Edited September 23, 2008 by shooterbenedetto Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangerTrace Posted September 23, 2008 Share Posted September 23, 2008 My local club set up a match for our Sheriff's office SWAT team. They shot it SWAT style, not USPSA style, but they loved it. It was much more tactical that what they usually shot. SInce then, several of them have made it out to the match to watch. I don't know if any more of them are shooting the matches, but it certaily made them more interested in it. I think there are three reasons most cops don't want to shoot matches on their time off: 1. A lot of them can't afford the ammo. 2. They may not like having a 65 year old man, kick their butt (happens to me all the time). 3. They carry a gun 40+ hours a week and don't want to mess with it on the weekend. That is just my opinion. I love to shoot. I can afford the ammo or at least enough to practice some and shoot matches. I don't mind getting "out shot" buy more experienced shooters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sgtis108 Posted September 23, 2008 Share Posted September 23, 2008 What little success I've had getting these guys to the matches, has been attributed to these things 1. I tell them up front that yes they will suck. Everyone does the first few months. No one will make fun or look down on them, because they were all new once. 2. I give them good equipment. They are set up with the best. I think a lot of new shooters with poor equipment start off thinking of all the money they have to spend to get up to speed. I give them a rig to keep until they get the equipment they need. 3. I praise their preformance in front of other LEO's I have a good friend that is a PYSHC RX. He gave me a good prespective on this subject. He said that everyone lives their life like a movie. Most people want to be the hero of their movie. When a LEO goes to a match and does poorly, he is not the hero of his movie. So the hero only pi scripts that assures that he maintains the hero status. Does that make sense? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangerTrace Posted September 23, 2008 Share Posted September 23, 2008 What little success I've had getting these guys to the matches, has been attributed to these things1. I tell them up front that yes they will suck. Everyone does the first few months. No one will make fun or look down on them, because they were all new once. 2. I give them good equipment. They are set up with the best. I think a lot of new shooters with poor equipment start off thinking of all the money they have to spend to get up to speed. I give them a rig to keep until they get the equipment they need. 3. I praise their preformance in front of other LEO's I have a good friend that is a PYSHC RX. He gave me a good prespective on this subject. He said that everyone lives their life like a movie. Most people want to be the hero of their movie. When a LEO goes to a match and does poorly, he is not the hero of his movie. So the hero only pi scripts that assures that he maintains the hero status. Does that make sense? It makes perfect sense to me. I visualize a lot about "use of force" shootings and I've never lost in one of those shootings. I guess you would want to boost their confidence, not make them less confident. I do believe if they shoot more matches, (get past the initial learning curve) it would only boost their confidence and make their annual qualification seem like a joke. I know it did for me and I've only shot about 6 matches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merlin Orr Posted September 23, 2008 Share Posted September 23, 2008 ......I have a good friend that is a PYSHC RX. He gave me a good prespective on this subject. He said that everyone lives their life like a movie. Most people want to be the hero of their movie. When a LEO Most Everyone goes to a match and does poorly, he is not the hero of his movie. So the hero only pi scripts that assures that he maintains the hero status. Does that make sense? Wow..... I'll bet! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay6 Posted September 23, 2008 Author Share Posted September 23, 2008 Thanks for all of the replies guys. I just find it odd that more LEO's are not "gun guys". I would think that anyone who had to carry a gun everyday for their protection would want to take advantage of every possible chance of being more proficient with it. I know that we have quite a few national gaurd members who come shoot USPSA and 3-gun matches and they say that it is better training for the guys heading over to the sand box than what the military actually offers. This mentality that any improvement in their shooting could save their life one day makes a lot of sense to me even it it means doing it on their own time. Oh well, I guess we will start with some letters and see what kind of response we get. I am hoping to get at least a few guys to show up and get hooked. At that point we might be able to use them to promote from within. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JKSNIPER Posted September 23, 2008 Share Posted September 23, 2008 Jay6 I'd send the letter. The worst that can happen is they say no or don't show up. Send additional copies to the heads of their SWAT/response team and if theres more than one chief there then send every chief a copy of it. Offer to hold a "clinic" at their range to familarize them with the unique aspects of USPSA/IPSC shooting matches. Hey nothing ventured nothing gained. You may get only 1 or 2 guys out of the bunch but those 1 or 2 will be there from then on. Good luck. Please keep us updated on this and let us all know how you make out with it. JK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay6 Posted September 23, 2008 Author Share Posted September 23, 2008 Jay6 I'd send the letter. The worst that can happen is they say no or don't show up. Send additional copies to the heads of their SWAT/response team and if theres more than one chief there then send every chief a copy of it. Offer to hold a "clinic" at their range to familarize them with the unique aspects of USPSA/IPSC shooting matches. Hey nothing ventured nothing gained. You may get only 1 or 2 guys out of the bunch but those 1 or 2 will be there from then on. Good luck. Please keep us updated on this and let us all know how you make out with it. JK Will do! And I agree, if we add even 1 new shooter I think it would be well worth the effort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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