Open / L-10 Nats Banter

[Gary Stevens]

My standard disclaimer that the President holds the key to the nationals location. My view is that the 2009 nationals should be moved to another appropriate location. This would accomplish a couple of things. It would allow USSA to evaluate and complete modifications to their range floor without USPSA having to take a promise that "we will take care of it". While honorable people are involved, things happen and once a date is announced for 2009 the clock starts ticking.

Additionally it takes the stress off of USSA of having a major match or two being held, with all of the accompanying foot traffic, while they are trying to correct the problem.

With this time out so to speak, USSA can do their repair/modifications and when completed USPSA can actually view a finished product, evaluate it, and move on with things like a world shoot bid, and future national events.

Gary

[ysued]

... Remember the range at the 2000 Limited in PA?? It had grass, it rained, it was OK.

Nope - East Huntingdon has always had gravel range surfaces. Only one stage at the '00 LTD Nationals was on the grass.

Without drainage tile or other turf improvements, stone surfaces work best for us in our part of the country.

I don't remember very well, I have pictures, but I would have to find them!!

Ron is what I would call "Very close to the source"

I bet he is, I don;t remember, But I do remember some grass, somewhere.

I just don't remember, it's been 8 years!!

Y

[ysued]

My standard disclaimer that the President holds the key to the nationals location. My view is that the 2009 nationals should be moved to another appropriate location. This would accomplish a couple of things. It would allow USSA to evaluate and complete modifications to their range floor without USPSA having to take a promise that "we will take care of it". While honorable people are involved, things happen and once a date is announced for 2009 the clock starts ticking.

Additionally it takes the stress off of USSA of having a major match or two being held, with all of the accompanying foot traffic, while they are trying to correct the problem.

With this time out so to speak, USSA can do their repair/modifications and when completed USPSA can actually view a finished product, evaluate it, and move on with things like a world shoot bid, and future national events.

Gary

Gary, I agree with your views on this issue, they are very wise.

If we want the next World Shoot, shouldn't we put a bid in Bali??

That is kinda tight!!!

I like the central Location of USSA, it's cheap to fly to, close to an Airport, Hotels are reasonably priced, the range is big enough to handle the 19-20 stages, All these things are not found together in any other location I have seen as of yet.

Remember, I was there too!! I had to suffer through the Mud, Smell, Rain, did I mention the Smell?? No, I didn't shoot, but I was as uncomfortable as the rest of the shooters, maybe double, because shooters were there for their rotation and went back to their hotels, I was there for both rotations every day, from the first squat to the last squad!! And..... IT SUCKED to be me!!

I have a gut feeling that the Drainage issue will be solved!! But trust me, it could have been worse!! Much worse!!

How??? My Home town in Puerto Rico got a whopping 18 Inches of rain..... YESTERDAY!!! In one Freaking Day!!! Cars were floating down the freaking streets!!! Just Imagine!! A foot and half of rain in one 24 hour period!!! Anyone feel better now???

Y

[AikiDale]

I have a gut feeling that the Drainage issue will be solved!! But trust me, it could have been worse!! Much worse!!

How??? My Home town in Puerto Rico got a whopping 18 Inches of rain..... YESTERDAY!!! In one Freaking Day!!! Cars were floating down the freaking streets!!! Just Imagine!! A foot and half of rain in one 24 hour period!!! Anyone feel better now???

Y

You mean to tell me people move to the mainland from Puerto Rico just to get away from the rain?

[BritinUSA]

If we want the next World Shoot, shouldn't we put a bid in Bali??

Both USA and Greece are putting in bids for the next WS in 2011.

[ysued]

I have a gut feeling that the Drainage issue will be solved!! But trust me, it could have been worse!! Much worse!!

How??? My Home town in Puerto Rico got a whopping 18 Inches of rain..... YESTERDAY!!! In one Freaking Day!!! Cars were floating down the freaking streets!!! Just Imagine!! A foot and half of rain in one 24 hour period!!! Anyone feel better now???

Y

You mean to tell me people move to the mainland from Puerto Rico just to get away from the rain?

Maybe!!

It's nasty!!

[ysued]

If we want the next World Shoot, shouldn't we put a bid in Bali??

Both USA and Greece are putting in bids for the next WS in 2011.

What do you think our chances are???

Y

[BritinUSA]

What do you think our chances are???

Realistically, less than 50%. Much of Europe will most likely opt for Greece. cheaper travel as many of them can travel overland and have no issues with getting their ammo there. Air travel and hotels prices 'off season' in Greece could be very attractive compared to USA.

I suspect that American countries, Canada, USA and South American regions would most likely go for USA as it's cheaper travel for them. The World Shoot moves around between the major continents, Europe, America's and Australasia. With it being hosted in Bali this time and South America last time it seems right for a European nation to host the WS.

But you never can tell, it will all come down to the presentation at the General Assembly. After both countries have explained their bids the matter is put up for a vote until a clear winner emerges.

[George Jones]

Just Imagine!! A foot and half of rain in one 24 hour period!!!

Y

Might have been a good thing in Tulsa. Would have washed the mud away!

[rgkeller]

Hard to believe that the conditions in Tulsa this year will help the USA's bid for a World Shoot.

[XRe]

How??? My Home town in Puerto Rico got a whopping 18 Inches of rain..... YESTERDAY!!! In one Freaking Day!!! Cars were floating down the freaking streets!!! Just Imagine!! A foot and half of rain in one 24 hour period!!! Anyone feel better now???

I've had over that amount in this area in one day (tropical system moving real slow...). Backyard was 4" underwater for a while... Lower lying areas flooded 32 feet (no joke). That's a lot of water...

Like I said before, I don't think anyone (reasonable) is complaining about the fact that it rained. You simply can't help it. There aren't many areas with suitable range space where the Sept/Oct timeframe isn't dicey for one reason or another in this regard (either its rain, or its cold/snow, or...). The problem is simply that the range became fairly unsafe after just one ninth of what PR got on Sunday....

Gary - WS bid is in less than a month... We don't have a year to wait this time around.... If that's the route to go, it'll be a bid for 2014 at the 2011 WS...

[ysued]

Hard to believe that the conditions in Tulsa this year will help the USA's bid for a World Shoot.

And that IS sad!!

USSA is the perfect range for a World Shoot!!

Y

[ysued]

How??? My Home town in Puerto Rico got a whopping 18 Inches of rain..... YESTERDAY!!! In one Freaking Day!!! Cars were floating down the freaking streets!!! Just Imagine!! A foot and half of rain in one 24 hour period!!! Anyone feel better now???

I've had over that amount in this area in one day (tropical system moving real slow...). Backyard was 4" underwater for a while... Lower lying areas flooded 32 feet (no joke). That's a lot of water...

Like I said before, I don't think anyone (reasonable) is complaining about the fact that it rained. You simply can't help it. There aren't many areas with suitable range space where the Sept/Oct timeframe isn't dicey for one reason or another in this regard (either its rain, or its cold/snow, or...). The problem is simply that the range became fairly unsafe after just one ninth of what PR got on Sunday....

Gary - WS bid is in less than a month... We don't have a year to wait this time around.... If that's the route to go, it'll be a bid for 2014 at the 2011 WS...

I would have to agree with Dave!! It sucks, but we might have to wait.

Y

[Chuck Anderson]

Has anybody been looking at the Tulsa weather since we left. It was clear leading up to the match. Had a couple of really lousy days. And I think it's been clear and sunny since we left. The was just a dumb luck timing issue. If we had hit a week in either direction, no problem. There have been 4 Pistol Nationals in Tulsa (that I can think of) 2006, 2007 and two in 2008. The 2006 and the 2008 LPR were just fine. No issues. The 2007 and the 2008 O/L10 were sucky and muddy. That's about the same luck I had at PASA with crappy weather. I know a couple BOD members really like PASA but a lot of members really don't.

Gary, do you have another Nationals site picked out since you don't want to go back to Tulsa? Montana while great, had issues and really isn't big enough to host both. Plus it's expensive. You're not coming back to Oregon, Albany and Bend are out...trust me. What else have you got?

[BritinUSA]

The rain was not the only problem at USSA. The combination of soft ground and grass will not last with the foot traffic caused by 1200-1500 shooters at a World Shoot.

Here's why;

Before the main match, the RO's, sponsors, vendors etc. get to shoot the match, this will be 300-400 shooters all walking over the shooting areas and taping/setting targets etc.

After registration, 1000 shooters will walk through the stages, each one maybe half a dozen times over the same shooting areas. Then during the match 1000 shooters will have another walk-through over a five minute period and then shoot the stage.

All that foot traffic will destroy the grass. The grass holds the dirt together, the dirt will break down and become deeper and deeper. Even without the rain, conditions will get slippery or sticky.

Put simply, a grass surface will not survive a WS.

Watch the Tennis from Wimbledon one time and you'll see what I mean. The courts look great and after one game the dirt is showing through, this is why they stop the matches and cover the court at the first sign of a slight rain, if they don't it turns to mud. The tennis courts are a hard packed surface and Tulsa is not.

Edited September 23, 2008 by BritinUSA

[XRe]

Montana while great, had issues and really isn't big enough to host both.

Aside from things that could've been solved through better logistics (switching ends of the range, and parking), what issues were there? Vendors didn't like it as much, as there was no "forced traffic" in Missoula... Other than that??? Yeah, expensive, but... wow, beautiful range, and good excuse to see some national parks

Put me on the list as one of those who actually likes PASA, so...

[mike cyrwus]

I chrono'ed at CO state at 168 and the exact same load (same batch) made 165.2 at Nationals. The had to use all 6 rounds to get there.

I made 162.9 with a load that just chronoed 168 yesterday.

I was on squad one though, shot stage 1 and moved to the chrono, when it was cold and raining..

My fault, shoulda done no less than 170.

[mactiger]

I like PASA, too!

Quincy and the surrounding area have been very good to USPSA in the past.

Troy

[XRe]

I like PASA, too!

Quincy and the surrounding area have been very good to USPSA in the past.

Nothing beats driving down the main street coming into Quincy and seeing a big "Welcome Shooters!" banner...

[EZ Bagger]

Nothing beats driving down the main street coming into Quincy and seeing a big "Welcome Shooters!" banner...

Except maybe the quality of restaurants right by the hotel.

[XRe]

Nothing beats driving down the main street coming into Quincy and seeing a big "Welcome Shooters!" banner...

Except maybe the quality of restaurants right by the hotel.

Yeah, can't forget about that Patio Pork Chop.... <drool>

[eerw]

Yeah, can't forget about that Patio Pork Chop.... <drool>

mmmmmmm ....yummmm

[ysued]

Yeah, can't forget about that Patio Pork Chop.... <drool>

mmmmmmm ....yummmm

Pork Chop Thursdays AAAAARRRGHHH!!!

YUMMY!!

Y

[Odie]

LPR pics are up, we're working on OL10. Odie

[Chuck Anderson]

Montana while great, had issues and really isn't big enough to host both.

Aside from things that could've been solved through better logistics (switching ends of the range, and parking), what issues were there? Vendors didn't like it as much, as there was no "forced traffic" in Missoula... Other than that??? Yeah, expensive, but... wow, beautiful range, and good excuse to see some national parks

Put me on the list as one of those who actually likes PASA, so...

The range is not conducive to holding a match the size of Nationals. Being split as far apart means you pretty much have to drive between areas of the range. The roads are too narrow to support that traffic. Parking sucked. It's expensive to fly to, and the hotels are also not exactly cheap. The 2005 Area 1 and the 2007 Nationals were awesome matches and the weather was great for both. Throw a little bit of rain in and problems will show. Missoula is okay for one Nats but don't see doing a back to back. This means we still need another range for a Nationals next year. PASA is an okay range. But it's a pain to fly into Chicago or St. Louis drive and hour and a half, stay in a little city with only a couple good restaraunts and still have to drive an hour round trip each way to the range every day.