XRe Posted September 24, 2008 Share Posted September 24, 2008 have you seen the Thousands of Spectators, Golf Carts and Media Following Tiger Woods though the courses??? Sometimes you don't see them on TV. The media sets up platforms & other useless crap everywhere!! Yes, I've seen them up close. Have you noticed that only players and certain officials (and certain media) walk between the ropes (which is the primary turf that's played upon, and most of what you see on TV)?? Look at the designated crossing areas in the fairways - even on a course that's in prime condition, with no rain, those are bare dirt by Friday. They don't let the crowds "follow" on the fairways until the final pairing of the last day for just this reason. And, look at the areas the crowd has been standing in - flattened, bare, torn up turf everywhere, again even in the best of conditions for the grass. Troy's right on this one - if you put 500 golfers in exactly the same spot, walking exactly the same track on the course over three days, you're going to end up in the same situation. Add in rain, and you get mud. Like it or not, grass is not a good surface for this game. Even in Missoula last year, with good weather, there were pits around the start positions, and the shooting areas were devoid of grass. The best surface seems to be a 5-6mm granite pea gravel (its a sharp edged gravel - not slick in the wet, doesn't shift around underfoot, but is uncomfortable to kneel or go prone on....). Re: drainage - yes, golf courses are designed to drain, and they do so, even under lots and lots of rain (assuming they were well designed and implemented). That won't save the grass from the kind of abuse that we put it through, though - rain or no rain. Certainly, the drainage issues have to be corrected, and to fully correct them would require more than simply swapping turf for gravel of some sort. But, putting turf back on top of good drainage is still not a good plan for holding a big match... Its pretty, but its not at all tough... And like it or not, we need tough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ysued Posted September 24, 2008 Share Posted September 24, 2008 (edited) have you seen the Thousands of Spectators, Golf Carts and Media Following Tiger Woods though the courses??? Sometimes you don't see them on TV. The media sets up platforms & other useless crap everywhere!! Yes, I've seen them up close. Have you noticed that only players and certain officials (and certain media) walk between the ropes (which is the primary turf that's played upon, and most of what you see on TV)?? Look at the designated crossing areas in the fairways - even on a course that's in prime condition, with no rain, those are bare dirt by Friday. They don't let the crowds "follow" on the fairways until the final pairing of the last day for just this reason. And, look at the areas the crowd has been standing in - flattened, bare, torn up turf everywhere, again even in the best of conditions for the grass. I know, I have never shot in the Tulsa Courses, but here in the Valley, with a whole lot less water the situation is different!! Troy's right on this one - if you put 500 golfers in exactly the same spot, walking exactly the same track on the course over three days, you're going to end up in the same situation. Add in rain, and you get mud. Yes, I know, but the courses are made to drains a whole lot less!! My solution?? Sand and Rock!! Like it or not, grass is not a good surface for this game. Even in Missoula last year, with good weather, there were pits around the start positions, and the shooting areas were devoid of grass. The best surface seems to be a 5-6mm granite pea gravel (its a sharp edged gravel - not slick in the wet, doesn't shift around underfoot, but is uncomfortable to kneel or go prone on....). Then get Knee Pads I agree, the really fine Gravel would be the best solution for this problem, but with about 6-8 inches of sand underneath 3-4inches of Gravel!! It would be costly, but very effective!! I'm not a fan of the Grass, But I like the range and the Area for Travel cost, Hotels, Restaurants, Commute and other incidentals. Re: drainage - yes, golf courses are designed to drain, and they do so, even under lots and lots of rain (assuming they were well designed and implemented). That won't save the grass from the kind of abuse that we put it through, though - rain or no rain. Certainly, the drainage issues have to be corrected, and to fully correct them would require more than simply swapping turf for gravel of some sort. But, putting turf back on top of good drainage is still not a good plan for holding a big match... Its pretty, but its not at all tough... And like it or not, we need tough. Agreed!! Grass is not what works for what we do!! You either get Pretty or you get Effective!! We have Pretty, for a little shile, after the match starts, we have......MUD!! Edited September 24, 2008 by ysued Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AikiDale Posted September 24, 2008 Share Posted September 24, 2008 Artificial turf anyone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BritinUSA Posted September 24, 2008 Share Posted September 24, 2008 Artificial turf anyone? Not sure how it would stand up to multiple holes being put in it by the stakes needed to hold walls/foot faults in place. It would also be crazy-expensive for an area the size of USSA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ysued Posted September 24, 2008 Share Posted September 24, 2008 Artificial turf anyone? Not sure how it would stand up to multiple holes being put in it by the stakes needed to hold walls/foot faults in place. It would also be crazy-expensive for an area the size of USSA. Let's not forget Bullet Holes too!! Sand and The really Fine Gravel!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caspian_45 Posted September 24, 2008 Share Posted September 24, 2008 Hey .........we have grass at PASA. It grows right back after the match. There are a couple bays that need attention in the drainage department, we just don't have the standing in mud all day long thing that we just had in Tulsa on every stage. I'm sure USSA will get fixed and running USPSA match very soon. PASA is great for me, it allows me the opportunity to help build the match. I really enjoy setting up a Nationals level match. Btw: one of the last squads of the Open/L10 match came from stage 17 to stage 18 carrying a pop-up shade cover. Has anyone checked with USSA to see if any stages had one stolen? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XD Niner Posted September 24, 2008 Share Posted September 24, 2008 That may have been Squad 9. They went out to the local Super Walmart and bought their own to keep the rain off them. What a bunch of sissies! (Wish I had thought of that.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caspian_45 Posted September 25, 2008 Share Posted September 25, 2008 Dey wus sum prurdy smart fellers..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Meek Posted September 25, 2008 Share Posted September 25, 2008 After shooting in the rain Thursday morning I went out bought a 12x12 pop up to use if it rained again. Best $90 I spent as we did not get anymore rain while we were shooting. Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fireant Posted September 25, 2008 Share Posted September 25, 2008 Hey .........we have grass at PASA. It grows right back after the match. There are a couple bays that need attention in the drainage department, we just don't have the standing in mud all day long thing that we just had in Tulsa on every stage.I'm sure USSA will get fixed and running USPSA match very soon. PASA is great for me, it allows me the opportunity to help build the match. I really enjoy setting up a Nationals level match. Btw: one of the last squads of the Open/L10 match came from stage 17 to stage 18 carrying a pop-up shade cover. Has anyone checked with USSA to see if any stages had one stolen? Yep, that would have been squad 9. That was the best idea anyone of my shooting buddies has ever had. We were all constantly reminded of that the whole match. We did not steal it, but we were thinking about going back and buying them out, then reselling them at the range We were hoping someone had taken a picture of us moving from one stage to another. Just to see if we looked as silly as we felt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimel Posted September 25, 2008 Share Posted September 25, 2008 The best part was one you got ready to leave your first stage (10) on Thursday and the port side lifted before the starboard side and the starboard side guys got drenched. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fireant Posted September 25, 2008 Share Posted September 25, 2008 That's right, it was nice being tall and in a hurry that morning. I was on the dry side Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caspian_45 Posted September 25, 2008 Share Posted September 25, 2008 Ya'll just looked like poor people movin'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fireant Posted September 25, 2008 Share Posted September 25, 2008 Ya'll just looked like poor people movin'. Now that's funny! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odie Posted September 26, 2008 Share Posted September 26, 2008 OL10 pics are loading up right now (some lovely mud shots), should be finished by the morning. All of the Nats pics will be completely up at that point. Thanks to all for your interest, we look forward to seeing some of you at Tennessee and 3 Gun Nationals. Odie and Michelle, Photomotion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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