WorldShoot in Bali : No Rob, No Todd, No Dave, No Phil....?

[OpnBlstr]

good to hear from Rob on this.

As for the ammo issue that so many have brought up. this is going to be an issue no matter where you hold the match. It is simply not easy to fly with the rounds required for a match of this size. If the WS is held at USSA in 2011 it will only benefit American shooters and some Canadians (those close to the border or who decide to the match), for everyone else it will still be a nightmare getting ammo to the match.

It is MUCH easier to ship your ammo into the USA than it is for us to send it to a country listed on our terrorist watch list like Indonesia. From my understanding it is currently illegal for Americans to ship their ammo to Indonesia. I may be wrong on this but this is the last I heard.

I know Eric Grauffel flies to the USA with a LOT of ammo when he comes for a match. Way more than 11 pounds (5 Kg) for sure!

Another thing to remember is here in the USA we have a lot of domestic companies producing QUALITY ammo for open guns. Atlanta Arms & Ammo is the first that comes to mind. Their US Army 38 Super load uses 7625 and works very well in most open guns - it is great in all of mine from a 4.5" Brazos shorty to my 5" hybrid and non-hybrid guns, to my 6" Tribrid. I'm sure that if enough foreign competitors committed to one load - say with VV N38 at a standard 1.135" OAL they would load up several thousand rounds for visiting competitors. They load our team ammo and it has been extremely reliable and consistent.

OR, here's an idea. What if some very large reloading press manufacturer (Cough, Dillon, ahem) were to set up a demo area with 1050s and associated equipment so competitors could buy components from a local vendor (Powder Valley, etc) and load their ammo to their own exact specs right here on the range. It certainly wouldn't take long to crank out 1000 rounds on a 1050.

There's lots of possibilities here in the USA for getting ammo - more so than for most other countries in the world.

[rgkeller]

Here's another idea.

How about the USPSA HQ get proactive to help US shooters going to the World Shoots, especially in this ammo area which might need governement waivers etc.

And do it well ahead of time.

[Carmoney]

Good point.

USPSA could start out by organizing and funding U.S. World Shoot teams in all divisions that are recognized in both USPSA and IPSC, which includes Revolver. But then I suppose that's another thread for another day......

[Sharyn]

It is MUCH easier to ship your ammo into the USA than it is for us to send it to a country listed on our terrorist watch list like Indonesia. From my understanding it is currently illegal for Americans to ship their ammo to Indonesia. I may be wrong on this but this is the last I heard.

I don't think you're correct on this. FedEx was fine with shipping our ammo to Indonesia... it's Sydney, Australia they had a problem with.

One possible solution, for future World Shoots outside the U.S., would be for U.S. competitors to network with competitors in other countries to work out a deal to load and ship ammo for them. I'm going to try and investigate this avenue further while in Bali.

I'm baffled as to why this hasn't been solved already. I'm relatively new to the game considering this is my first World Shoot... and sure, USPSAs support and intervention would be nice, but, ultimately, we're responsible for ourselves.

JMHO

[rgkeller]

A coordinated effort by HQ would make it unnecessary for each shooter to have to solve the problem.

Edited August 18, 2008 by rgkeller

[BritinUSA]

I agree, the best way to ship ammo overseas is for HQ to organise (with the Dept. of State) to ship the ammo in a single shipment via ship. So each shooter in USA would send their ammo to a single point in USA where it would be gathered together and shipped out.

Any other solution (with regard to shipping) will require each shooter to make their own arrangements. This will be more expensive than sending a single larger (and easier to track) shipment.

[Sharyn]

I don't know all the specifics about this yet... but I don't see how HQ can resolve the issue of the Department of Transportation requiring individual samples for "safety testing" for approval of shipment.

Maybe they could, maybe they couldn't... ??? I'm still learning. However, I don't understand why someone (HQ or not) hasn't stepped up to the plate to investigate.

Any other solution (with regard to shipping) will require each shooter to make their own arrangements. This will be more expensive than sending a single larger (and easier to track) shipment.

Not necessarily... if we could work out a large scale arrangement.

[slavex]

It is MUCH easier to ship your ammo into the USA than it is for us to send it to a country listed on our terrorist watch list like Indonesia. From my understanding it is currently illegal for Americans to ship their ammo to Indonesia. I may be wrong on this but this is the last I heard.

I know Eric Grauffel flies to the USA with a LOT of ammo when he comes for a match. Way more than 11 pounds (5 Kg) for sure!

Another thing to remember is here in the USA we have a lot of domestic companies producing QUALITY ammo for open guns. Atlanta Arms & Ammo is the first that comes to mind. Their US Army 38 Super load uses 7625 and works very well in most open guns - it is great in all of mine from a 4.5" Brazos shorty to my 5" hybrid and non-hybrid guns, to my 6" Tribrid. I'm sure that if enough foreign competitors committed to one load - say with VV N38 at a standard 1.135" OAL they would load up several thousand rounds for visiting competitors. They load our team ammo and it has been extremely reliable and consistent.

OR, here's an idea. What if some very large reloading press manufacturer (Cough, Dillon, ahem) were to set up a demo area with 1050s and associated equipment so competitors could buy components from a local vendor (Powder Valley, etc) and load their ammo to their own exact specs right here on the range. It certainly wouldn't take long to crank out 1000 rounds on a 1050.

There's lots of possibilities here in the USA for getting ammo - more so than for most other countries in the world.

no it's not easier. in fact US State Department and the ATF make it very very difficult for foreigners to ship ammo and guns to the USA. Further while you may think your local factories produce quality ammo, how is someone from Europe or Asia or the like, going to know? it's going to be the same game of chance for them as it will be for people in Bali. While I would love to see the next WS in the USA, it will not solve any of the problems related to shipping ammo at all. The Department of Homeland Security also makes traveling into the US with firearms a bit of nightmare, especially when coming from ex com-bloc countries or countries in parts of Asia and the Middle east. WSs held in Europe would probably be the easiest for everyone to get to, somewhere like Czech, or France or even say Norway or something like that.

[Dalmas]

It is MUCH easier to ship your ammo into the USA than it is for us to send it to a country listed on our terrorist watch list like Indonesia. From my understanding it is currently illegal for Americans to ship their ammo to Indonesia. I may be wrong on this but this is the last I heard.

I know Eric Grauffel flies to the USA with a LOT of ammo when he comes for a match. Way more than 11 pounds (5 Kg) for sure!

Another thing to remember is here in the USA we have a lot of domestic companies producing QUALITY ammo for open guns. Atlanta Arms & Ammo is the first that comes to mind. Their US Army 38 Super load uses 7625 and works very well in most open guns - it is great in all of mine from a 4.5" Brazos shorty to my 5" hybrid and non-hybrid guns, to my 6" Tribrid. I'm sure that if enough foreign competitors committed to one load - say with VV N38 at a standard 1.135" OAL they would load up several thousand rounds for visiting competitors. They load our team ammo and it has been extremely reliable and consistent.

OR, here's an idea. What if some very large reloading press manufacturer (Cough, Dillon, ahem) were to set up a demo area with 1050s and associated equipment so competitors could buy components from a local vendor (Powder Valley, etc) and load their ammo to their own exact specs right here on the range. It certainly wouldn't take long to crank out 1000 rounds on a 1050.

There's lots of possibilities here in the USA for getting ammo - more so than for most other countries in the world.

no it's not easier. in fact US State Department and the ATF make it very very difficult for foreigners to ship ammo and guns to the USA. Further while you may think your local factories produce quality ammo, how is someone from Europe or Asia or the like, going to know? it's going to be the same game of chance for them as it will be for people in Bali. While I would love to see the next WS in the USA, it will not solve any of the problems related to shipping ammo at all. The Department of Homeland Security also makes traveling into the US with firearms a bit of nightmare, especially when coming from ex com-bloc countries or countries in parts of Asia and the Middle east. WSs held in Europe would probably be the easiest for everyone to get to, somewhere like Czech, or France or even say Norway or something like that.

+1, I work as IATA Dangerous Goods Instructor and there are more rules and regulations shipping to the US than to any other country. I live in Sweden and therefore have few problems although the beaurocracy is thik. If the WS was to be in the US far more shooter would have problems coming to the US than the US delegation going to Bali.

For me it doesn't matter where the WS is because if I can't drive to the venue there will be challanges to overcome getting my ammo to destination, but its possible to get your ammo anywhere. The challange is to find out how. I'm willing to help in any way I can when it comes to shipping dangerous goods.

Next week I'm departing for the States to shoot my first Nationals. I've opted not to bring any ammo but that is becasue I'm very lucky and have friend that can reload for me on site and I'm travelling alone with my son so I got enough luggage as it is.

Now Tulsa have more murders than my entire country, Oklahoma City is not far away and we all know what happened there, there are probably active or sleeping cells of all kinds of bad people all over...should I not go because its too dangerous.... (couldn't resist)

Edited August 19, 2008 by Dalmas

[Jon Merricks]

I really have a hard time believing ammo will be much of a problem for a WS in the U.S. Maybe bringing it here might be a problem but I would think between all the different manufactures and individuals there is someone willing to load the ammo. Heck, I know if a Team sent me the details and would cover the cost I would load for them.

[shred]

I think the "why not get loads here?" is answered by why the US shooters are trying to get ammo in versus using the locally-available Match Ammo-- even if it's great stuff, we don't want to buy a pig in a poke, no matter what.

A load-it-yourself station would be great, but for 1000 rounds, you'll need to spend half a day of your pre-match vacation time loading and test-firing until you're happy. 1000 competitors x 1/2 day each = a whole lot of 1050's.

[caps]

If the World Shoot was held in the USA, how many slots would USPSA members get?

[shred]

If the World Shoot was held in the USA, how many slots would USPSA members get?

Not a lot more than they get to other WS. They would have much more access to the Pre-Match (which is a part of the real match) for ROs and staff and so on.

[Chuck Anderson]

About the same as they do for the WS in other countries. I doubt the US would get more than about 100 slots. There's going to be some seriously stiff competition to get in if that is the case.

[Singlestack]

I removed all of the non-revalent posts. If yours got clipped, you know why.

[gmshtr]

Tulsa has murders?? CRAP! I wish someone had told me before I moved here! Needless to say, visiting us here in OK couldn't be any safer. If you're in a high crime rate area, then you probably were up to no good anyway!

IF the US were to host a world shoot at USSA, I can guarantee that there would be limitless ammunition purchase and/or reloading opportunities. I would do my best to make sure that what happened to me in Ecuador would NOT happen to anyone else outside of the US. We would have an ammo bunker full of whatever anyone would need!

On another note, I hate not going to the World Shoot this year. I know that Bali will put together an incredible event. I just decided that the time away from my family, work, the expense, the ammo issues, and possible safety problems outweighed the importance of attending a pistol match...albeit the World Championship.

I wish nothing but the best of luck and safety for everyone going, and I will truly miss all of my international brothers-in-arms!

Phil Strader

Edited August 20, 2008 by gmshtr

[BritinUSA]

If USSA gets the nod to host a World Shoot then I am more than willing to help organise it...

My only payment would be a slot to the match....

Heck, it was worth a try...

[Patrick Sweeney]

I just had a thought; the Beijing Olympics. I'm sure, that except for the airgun competitors, the shooters involved had to have more than 11 pounds of ammo. Heck, the shotgunners probably had more their their own weight each in ammo to shoot.

How'd that ammo get there? USA Shooting can get a (perhaps literal) ton of ammo into a communist country, and we can't get ammo into other countries that are ostensibly free?

[Rob Boudrie]

USA Shooting can get a (perhaps literal) ton of ammo into a communist country, and we can't get ammo into other countries that are ostensibly free?

That makes about as much sense as saying "They built an entire village for the Olympic team, and we can't even get the government in the host country to put one shooting range and a new hotel for the World Shoot."

[Jim Norman]

Sadly, We, USPSA and IPSC are barely tolerated and certainly less than supported. Even the Olympic shooters are frowned upon. Look at how the shooting sports there have been dumbed down.

Jim

[Patrick Sweeney]

Rob, you miss the point. Every four years (two, if we count the winter Olympics) those competitors compete somewhere. They fly the same airlines we fly, they go to the same countries we go to. They can get ammo, we can't.

How did that happen? And don't just say "It's the Olympics, that's how." They also do it annually or biannually for the World Championships for those competitions.

We should find out how, what arguments they marshalled, what international shipping bodies they appealed to, and do the same.

[BritinUSA]

Patrick, I think you'll find that all their ammunition was factory supplied by the sponsors of that part of the games. I

[Julien Boit]

Eric Grauffel always travel with his father.

Which means 22lbs of ammo.

Plus I discussed with him about it once, he have frequent arrangements with some airlines as he's a frequent flyer.

Got lots of miles.

[Sharyn]

I just wanted to post a little update on the ammo subject...

Smitty and I purchased the Armscor WS match ammo (just in case we can't get ours there). We also purchased 1000 rounds of the Armscor WS match ammo to practice with here in the States and to make sure we, and our guns, like it.

Well... I'm very impressed!!! The ammo shoots great, groups great and I have not had one teeny tiny hiccup. It's got some FLAME in my Open gun, but that's not a problem in the daylight.

I hope this is the same ammo that will be awaiting us in Bali. That would make me very happy!

Thanks Armscor!

[Big Bear]

I talked with one of the "Top Shooters" that's not attending the WS and his reason was that he was tired of traveling to these small 3rd world countries and going through all the hassles of getting there and back. When asked why they were in these "3rd world countries" he explained that it was because the council members that vote on it like the atmosphere of these countries for their own benefit. Don't hate the messenger. That's what he said.