Jim Norman Posted August 12, 2008 Share Posted August 12, 2008 I think that there is discussion to be had regarding the methodology of choosing the WS site and the politics of IPSC, but this thread is probably not the place and this forum may not be either. Sadly, the 'Official' IPSC forum isn't either. maybe over on USPSA?? So that said, I'll give you a second. but can you split off the venue selection stuff?? Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boo radley Posted August 12, 2008 Share Posted August 12, 2008 (edited) Flex -- you will probably close this, but so far it's been an interesting topic, and hasn't (yet) descended into jingoism and real ugliness. No, none of the top United States shooters that aren't going 'owe' those of us on the sidelines an explanation, but it's nice to understand the 'why not.' Except for minor industry support, this organization survives through its membership and match fees, no? OTOH, the reasons for not going don't particularly lend themselves to debate, any more than quoting statistics cures someone of a fear of flying <shrug>. Edited August 12, 2008 by boo radley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carmoney Posted August 12, 2008 Share Posted August 12, 2008 How about the ugliest and most jingoistic post on this topic made in the next hour wins a tube of Slide Glide?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted August 12, 2008 Share Posted August 12, 2008 Since when have you been one to build consensus??? Since when have you been one to make snappy comments..... [Gilda Radner voice on] Oh...nevermind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted August 12, 2008 Share Posted August 12, 2008 How about the ugliest and most jingoistic post on this topic made in the next hour wins a tube of Slide Glide?? Or gets bannned. I'll flip a coin to see which. (my own special coin ) How's that for jingoism? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted August 12, 2008 Share Posted August 12, 2008 I think that there is discussion to be had regarding the methodology of choosing the WS site and the politics of IPSC, but this thread is probably not the place and this forum may not be either. Sadly, the 'Official' IPSC forum isn't either. maybe over on USPSA?? So that said, I'll give you a second. but can you split off the venue selection stuff?? Jim No politics here, Jim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Micah Posted August 12, 2008 Share Posted August 12, 2008 I'll flip a coin to see which. (my own special coin ) Go for it Harvey! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BritinUSA Posted August 12, 2008 Share Posted August 12, 2008 With regard to the Canada 10 round exception, I had heard the same thing just prior to the 2002 WS in Africa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shred Posted August 12, 2008 Share Posted August 12, 2008 My $0.02 -- I was one affected by the Ecuador Ammo Fiasco. The replacement Armscor 38 Super I got worked, but felt really soft.. so soft I was pretty sure it wouldn't pass chrono. It also shot basketball sized groups at 18 yards out of my Open gun. Not a happening thing. Ong saved me with 50-100 rounds from his minimal stash. It shot good groups, but they were 4 inches up and 1 inch right of my dot... cost me a miss that did. In theory, this year's WS match ammo was available here, if you ordered a large quantity a year in advance. I tried to get some several months ago and was unable to locate any. They published the specs, but without the actual bullet to load, there's not much point. With two of us going and only one shooting, we should be ok bringing it. On the US not getting a WS-- we had one long ago. Since then we've either not-bid, not-had a place to hold it, or had some pesky "Crime Bill' preventing people from bringing IPSC gear in. From all the shooters I talked to in Europe, a US WS bid would be welcomed by most of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BritinUSA Posted August 12, 2008 Share Posted August 12, 2008 Correct, USA has not put in a bid for quite some time. In order for a bid to be realized we need to find a range willing to host it and a group of very dedicated (and possibly certifiably insane) to do all the work and organize the match. It is a MASSIVE undertaking and is not to be taken lightly. Once we are ready for a bid, our RD needs to notify IPSC that it intends to bid on the next WS and this is discussed at the World Assembly. Each region present their case and then the RDs vote on it until a winner emerges. I have not heard conclusively that USA intends to put in a bid for 2011. Perhaps one of our ADs can chime in if by know anything that they are free to talk about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zhunter Posted August 12, 2008 Share Posted August 12, 2008 OK, I have not read this whole thread, so i am not sure if it has been posted, but.... Who would want to go to a primarily muslim country that has a history of terrorism? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shred Posted August 12, 2008 Share Posted August 12, 2008 OK, I have not read this whole thread, so i am not sure if it has been posted, but....Who would want to go to a primarily muslim country that has a history of terrorism? You mean, like Egypt? That place is cool. I'd go back in a minute. Same for Israel and Colombia. Even in 'those' places, the risk of terrorism is still vanishingly small compared to all the other risks you run on a daily basis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zhunter Posted August 12, 2008 Share Posted August 12, 2008 OK, I have not read this whole thread, so i am not sure if it has been posted, but....Who would want to go to a primarily muslim country that has a history of terrorism? You mean, like Egypt? That place is cool. I'd go back in a minute. Same for Israel and Colombia. Even in 'those' places, the risk of terrorism is still vanishingly small compared to all the other risks you run on a daily basis. Shred You make a good point, but I would feel safer in Egypt that Bali Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilTerry Posted August 13, 2008 Share Posted August 13, 2008 OK, I have not read this whole thread, so i am not sure if it has been posted, but....Who would want to go to a primarily muslim country that has a history of terrorism? You mean, like Egypt? That place is cool. I'd go back in a minute. Same for Israel and Colombia. Even in 'those' places, the risk of terrorism is still vanishingly small compared to all the other risks you run on a daily basis. Shred You make a good point, but I would feel safer in Egypt that Bali Really! Having been to both Bali has a very marginal edge on the "feeling safe" scale but then 25 million people in Cairo can be a bit overwheming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blownhemi Posted August 13, 2008 Share Posted August 13, 2008 If a world shoot is ever held in the US then it'll have to be shot to IPSC rules. That's going to mean that alot of USPSA Production shooters will need new guns or get bumped to other divisions. It would be nice to see a world shoot in the US. Maybe New Zealand should put in for a world shoot. I think everyone can agree it's a pretty safe place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JKSNIPER Posted August 13, 2008 Share Posted August 13, 2008 Egypt is a poor example of a "risky" muslim country. If you've ever been there you would know that you can't sneeze without your boogers landing on an Egyptian policeman or military personnel. THey take the safety of their tourists VERY seriously. If they suffer an attack they know that their major income from tourism would dry right up. I would feel safe going there but not to Indonesia. JK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chendersby Posted August 13, 2008 Share Posted August 13, 2008 Why I am not going: I went to Ecuador with 250 rounds of "Just in case the ammo is late" stash. I was able to get another 200 from a Brazilian friend who DQed. Finished the match with Armscor that barely stayed on an IPSC target at 25yards and did not run reliably in my gun. Sorry Vince but Armscor ammo is crap. So ammo hassle was a huge factor in my decision. Also the armory at the hotel holding the guns was another factor. Cost. I was looking at bringing my daughter so I could get enough ammo on the plane. So the pure logistics of going also was a factor. The one thing brought up here over and over is definately not a factor in why I did not go, that is because it was in Bali. I would loved to go back to Bali. I spent quite a bit of time there in my youth. Indonesia may be Muslum but Bali is Hindu. The Balinese people are great. You are more likely to get killed by a drunk Aussie on a motorbike than at the hands of a Balinese. Bali is the Honolulu or Cabo of that area. I am completely mind boggled by the misinformation I have read here. You would thing we were doing the WS in Baghdad. As for 2011? It is definately a subject before the Board at this time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtr Posted August 13, 2008 Share Posted August 13, 2008 I have not heard conclusively that USA intends to put in a bid for 2011. Perhaps one of our ADs can chime in if by know anything that they are free to talk about. From http://www.uspsa.org/bodminutes/20080126.html "2011 IPSC World Shoot Bid The board discussed a possible bid for the 2011 IPSC World Shoot. The president will hold discussions with possible venues." I haven't seen any information newer than this, I hope it means that the US intends to present a bid. The ONLY venue I have heard mentioned for a possible WS bid is Tulsa, but I'm not exactly in the know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigsaxdog Posted August 13, 2008 Share Posted August 13, 2008 i wonder if any of the "peanut gallery" that are waxing philosphical like on this thread about how none of the "top" shooters are going to the W.S. have taken into account just how rude and disrespectful they are to the people who are actually going to be on the U.S. World Shoot team? haven't really kept up with this whole evolution, but i do know that one of our central fla. homeboys SmittyFL, Shannon Smith is going, and he ain't no slouch, so...... i gotta say, i think this thread if pretty lame....... kinda like the barry bonds steriod controversy of practical shooting. if you ain't hittin', whatta you got to say? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpolans Posted August 13, 2008 Share Posted August 13, 2008 <<SNIP>>You would thing we were doing the WS in Baghdad. Hmm...now there's an idea. They do say it's starting to get safer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Anderson Posted August 13, 2008 Share Posted August 13, 2008 I sent an email to Vince asking him to comment on Lawman's post, and here is his reply:Lawman is Chuck Anderson, who is actually a very nice guy. He was gracious enough to loan a Glock to the Russian Team in Ecuador, and I really appreciate him stepping up to the plate when I was scrambling around trying to beg, borrow or steal guns for various people who needed them. Anyway, Chuck probably doesn't realise that the Armscor ammo available in Ecuador was their standard load, most of which was given away, free of charge, to competitors who were affected by the Florida Fiasco. I have no doubt that some of it didn't work properly but, in other cases (e.g. for Brodie McIntosh, the Australian Open Division Champion), it worked flawlessly. In any case, the Official Match Ammunition available in Bali is the IPSC Load which was formulated in accordance with IPSC requirements and components. The IPSC Load ammo was also tested in numerous countries around the world, and in numerous handguns. In the USA, our primary tester was STI (if my memory serves me correctly, a quantity was also sent to Angus Hobdell). FWIW. Nope I was aware of the difference. The comment was regarding the ammo brought in for the 2005 match. I'm well aware that the 2008 ammo will be loaded to a LOT better specifications. I actually expect that it will be very high quality ammo. I kind of wish I could buy a supply for my own use here in the US. Armscor had some issues at the 2005 match. I know that the crew of the US office, Ivan, Martin and a couple others did everything they absolutely could to make it right with shooters. I have zero issues with Ivan or any of the US guys. But that doesn't change the fact that ammo didn't arrive, and the ammo that did show up...well sucked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Keen Posted August 13, 2008 Share Posted August 13, 2008 i wonder if any of the "peanut gallery" that are waxing philosphical like on this thread about how none of the "top" shooters are going to the W.S. have taken into account just how rude and disrespectful they are to the people who are actually going to be on the U.S. World Shoot team? haven't really kept up with this whole evolution, but i do know that one of our central fla. homeboys SmittyFL, Shannon Smith is going, and he ain't no slouch, so...... i gotta say, i think this thread if pretty lame....... kinda like the barry bonds steriod controversy of practical shooting. if you ain't hittin', whatta you got to say? He's got a point there people ...... Ohio native Bob Vogel is going ... representing the USA on the Production team, and he's pretty good too. Can he win ? Only one way to find out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vlad Posted August 13, 2008 Share Posted August 13, 2008 If a world shoot is ever held in the US then it'll have to be shot to IPSC rules. That's going to mean that alot of USPSA Production shooters will need new guns or get bumped to other divisions. Thats not a real issue I think. High end production shooters will have no problems switching to 5lb trigger, and really most shooters I see are not that using gear that far from the IPSC standards. The rules allow for crazy things nowdays, but I don't see that many people who do much besides sights and trigger jobs, sometimes new barrels. Drop you factory barrel back in, change a few springs, and you are back to IPSC standards. Let that be the biggest problem. Plus the crazy people who build $1500 "production" guns can afford a plain one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgunz11 Posted August 13, 2008 Share Posted August 13, 2008 It's too bad Max Michel Jr. isn't going and taking a group of his Ranger friends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Keen Posted August 13, 2008 Share Posted August 13, 2008 Actually it looks like he is ...... From the U.S. Army I see Max Michel, KC Eusebio, Travis Tomasie, Daniel Horner, Lee Dimaculangan, and Brad Balsey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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