New shooters stealing

[JThompson]

The time spent brassing is time that OUGHT to be spent resetting stages quickly so that five stage matches don't have to last all damned day long.

As I have said before, it takes no longer to brass for the shooter than it does to tape targets and reset steel. Brassing for each shooter does not slow down the squad and everyone gets their brass back immediately. A couple of shooters tape the targets while a couple more pick up the brass and put it in the shooters brass bag.

I must admit to having a problem understanding why everyone does not do this ????????????

+1 We are indoors, so it's a real safety issue as well. Cement and a pile of brass is like marbles.

Edited May 6, 2008 by JThompson

[uscbigdawg]

I've learned that at my home range in California, this has become a problem, with one guy and family in particular. Those back home in the greater Bay area and Sacramento know that I'm generally a nice guy, but have no problem, letting the mouth fly when I see BS. That said, I have no problem calling people out and publically embarrassing them for being a thief. Frankly, if I'm the MD, I will be cordial to the degree that I will return their match fee for that day and kindly instruct them to never to come that club again. I (and I'm sure, the others at the match) don't want people like that contaminating my sport and range.

Rich

[OpnBlstr]

Wow, you guys have it good. People WANT to pick up brass - even though it isn't theirs.

Here at USSA we can't PAY someone to come out and pick up brass. I'm talking about a LOT of brass. When a rifle class ends we have 10000-15000 pieces of once fired 223 brass all in one nice little area. Same with a pistol class. The range turns gold! Easy pickin'. No one will pick it up. If I had time I could moonlight as a brass supply company.

At the local matches in this area there is almost no one picking up their own brass so when I want to pick up my own 38 Super I have to sort through hundreds and sometimes thousands of bright shiny 9mm and 40 cases to find my own 30 pieces - a real frustrating process. I do return other open shooters' brass to them however and that tends to get them to try to pick up their brass as well.

I shot a match near Denver a few years ago and the ROs would call SHOOTING, ON DECK, PASTE, PASTE, BRASS, BRASS. All their shooters were used to it and it worked well. I have often thought why more clubs don't do that.

Maybe I need to run an ad..."There's gold in dem dar ranges!" "Come an' git it!"

[D.Hayden]

Here at USSA we can't PAY someone to come out and pick up brass. I'm talking about a LOT of brass. When a rifle class ends we have 10000-15000 pieces of once fired 223 brass all in one nice little area. Same with a pistol class. The range turns gold! Easy pickin'. No one will pick it up. If I had time I could moonlight as a brass supply company.

I'm buying a plane ticket.. lol

[SA Friday]

We brass after every shooter. While the targets are being scored and taped there is more than enough time to pick up the shooters brass. I've never seen it slow down a match and everyone gets their brass back.

The answer is real easy, and is being done in some places already. Read the above post. It works, everyone gets their brass back, and you pick up live rounds on the ground for the shooter too if it's missed.

Walk to the line, drop your brass bag and shoot. Someone else shags the brass and puts it in your bag and gives it back to you at the end of scoring. They also pick up your mags and put them in the bag. You get everything back. People just have to be willing to pick up the brass for each other (you know, take care of each other...). It really is that simple to solve. Call out the order, then call out pasters and steel setters, then brass shagers.

Nobody is then left out and nobody is sifting through brass buckets instead of tearing down at the end, no more carpet of junk in the berms, no more live rounds on the ground (for the most part), and no more lost or forgotten mags. You don't want your brass? Fine, there will be someone to take it from you after it's retrieved if it's reloadable. If it's not reloadable, then throw it away and keep the berms clean.

[Rolex]

Ok probably got your attention but I have seen this locally at Three different clubs this year. Not really stealing but my hope is that people who are doing this, read this and stop doing it.

Brass is real expensive, its a fact.

New shooters are new and might not get how it works.

The last couple matches I have seen that they are showing up sometimes with families and taking every piece of brass they can get their hands on!! After they or anybody shoots.

I don't get it cause I was raised that if its not mine I don't want it and that goes WAY beyond brass. Kind of common sense manners if you ask me. By the way my brass is also marked.

These newbies took over a 100 brand new 38 Supers from me while I was checking my targets this weekend.

NONE of them, of course, shoot 38 Super so they will probably throw it away as they sort their "loot" this week. but I did see them take almost all of a friends .40 S&W last week.

You probably going to say why don't you say something. I do, but it is a much larger problem this year. Its just that when you are ROing and trying to focus some things don't get noticed. I do need to paste, set steel, RO, and whatever so I can't make brassing my #1 priority. Why people don't take the brass to a table and Sort to owners is beyond me.

I have adapted to the fact that people no longer help police brass like we did religiously in the early days. It was as expected on a squad as much as helping paste but this new development has me baffled.

Rant complete..

Get this- at the clubs I shoot at no one will pick brass- they tryed to do yjid but people said no. But after each person shoots and the hit are scored- others pickup your brass ank keep it! So do I watch the person doing the scoring- or pickup my brass!

[BritinUSA]

...So do I watch the person doing the scoring- or pickup my brass!

Perhaps you could partner up with one person on the squad who feels the same way you do and pick up each others brass while the shooter checks the hits on the target?

[CSEMARTIN]

Talk with your local Match Directors. Ask that they bring this up at the shooter's meetings and such...just get the word out.

That's a really good idea.

[RePete]

The same thing is happening in Canada too.

I don't have a problem telling others to leave the brass alone, unless it's the shooter or his/her designate.

[steel1212]

ROs would call SHOOTING, ON DECK, PASTE, PASTE, BRASS, BRASS.

That is a freaking awesome idea. Other than the guy that just got done shooting, to load mags, the shooter and on deck guy, the rest should be doing something. So 10 people you have Loading, Shooting, On deck, paste, paste, paste, paste, brass, brass, brass. Makes since.

As far as your piles o brass, that is F'in nutts! Like you said its a gold mine and I can't believe people don't want that...damn I feel my whorishness coming out....

[kevin c]

Posted on our range:

HotShots Range Brass Guidelines

1. Brassing is everybody’s responsibility, not just for reloading but to keep our range neat. Brassing is a squad duty expected of all shooters, just like taping, setting steel, picking up magazines and RO’ing.

2. Brass belongs to the shooter unless deliberately left on the range at the end of practice or match teardown (see also #5).

3. Brass left on the range becomes the property of the HotShots.

4. HotShots members can collect left brass for their own use (however, see also #5).

5. Marked brass is brass that the shooter wants back. Make a reasonable effort to return it to the owner.

6. Shooting (matches and practice) has priority over brassing. In recovering your own/your squad’s brass, avoid delay in range use. Collecting other brass is best left to after practice or match teardown.

7. The brass pickers have first access their squad’s pile to get their own. Those with marked brass picked up by others should wait their turn. Unless unique, unmarked brass in the pile is considered orphaned and may be claimed by anyone.

8. Be courteous. Squabbling over little pieces of dirty metal is only for children.

9. Important note to new reloaders: Range brass is of variable and unknown quality. Weak cases can fail, causing serious/permanent injury or death.

RELOAD RANGE BRASS AT YOUR OWN RISK

YOUR COOPERATION IS APPRECIATED: THANK YOU!!

As you might guess, our problem is that few people pick up brass (again, as mentioned above, mebbe that'll change with the rising cost of metal). We distribute buckets. If you don't want your brass, it goes to the squad that picks it up. Left over brass is recycled by the club to benefit the Junior Shooter's program.

[Dave Gundry]

"Thanks for grabbing my brass for me!" as you toss them your brass bag...

[D.Hayden]

I find it difficult to believe it's this widespread.. maybe I just shoot with a bunch of courteous people.

I've never witnessed this at any of the 4 ranges I shoot at, but maybe I just get on the right squads.

[SiG Lady]

We're pretty courteous at the indoor place where I shoot. I've always picked up other shooters' brass that rolled my way (especially .45ACP) and handed it back to them--even perfect strangers. Most of them reload and appreciate it. They've all done it for me, too, all these years. It was also understood that you didn't snatch other people's brass during matches, either, unless they told you that you were welcome to it (which sometimes happened... but not usually, as we all were reloaders).

[DonT]

We're fortunate that we don't have that problem at our range...that I'm aware of anyway.

I use new Starline .38SC nickel, and I think the guys feel bad for me because they know how darn expensive it is. So when a lost piece is found they will bring it over and hand it to me like they had just found a diamond ring...and I appreciate it as if it were

[Punkin Chunker]

"Thanks for grabbing my brass for me!" as you toss them your brass bag...

And since you bring it up . . .

That's the flip side of the brass issue. The shooters (of course, no one on this forum) who do NOTHING to brass the range.

Then on the last stage, go around to the members of the squad who were brassing, and ask for their brass back.

Or if the brass is being piled, wait until theirs is picked up, and just stroll over to get it.

The urge is to pull their brass out and throw it back out onto the range floor, but that does come across as a little immature.

Generally, that stunt only works once, but avoiding their brass gets to be a pain.

[wooddog]

While I do notice a few brass whores out there, for the most part I get my brass back.

At my club, (Bass River) there is almost always someone brassing, including me, after each shooter. Then he or she is handed a fist full of brass and any dropped mags.

At another club I belong to, (Nauset) there is the brass bucket method and the range is left 99% brass free after a match. The club trades the unclaimed brass towards steel targets.

[Carmoney]

The time spent brassing is time that OUGHT to be spent resetting stages quickly so that five stage matches don't have to last all damned day long.

As I have said before, it takes no longer to brass for the shooter than it does to tape targets and reset steel. Brassing for each shooter does not slow down the squad and everyone gets their brass back immediately. A couple of shooters tape the targets while a couple more pick up the brass and put it in the shooters brass bag.

I must admit to having a problem understanding why everyone does not do this ????????????

If you find it easy to shag brass after each shooter, you might want to consider whether your club is making the effort to set up stages that encourage freestyle shooting. Good stage design (multiple engagement options, shooting on the move, large open shooting areas, etc.) tends to leave spent brass all over the place.

[BritinUSA]

If you find it easy to shag brass after each shooter, you might want to consider whether your club is making the effort to set up stages that encourage freestyle shooting. Good stage design (multiple engagement options, shooting on the move, large open shooting areas, etc.) tends to leave spent brass all over the place.

We have great stage design, freestyle, lots of movement. Brass ends up about 6 feet away from wherever the shooter was when he shot it, not all over the range. Next time you are in Colorado come and watch a match and you'll see it for yourself.

My statements were accurate, everyone gets their brass back and it does not slow down the match.

[Jim Norman]

Freestyle shooting is what wee do, but that does not mean everyone shoots every stag a different way. Let's be honest. You are going to shoot most targets from about the same places. THe big Dogs shoot faster and may on occasion shoot a slightly different path. Rarely do you see a stage where there is total mass confusion as to how to shoot. There is GENERALLY a place where we start and another where we end up. True enough that one may go left first while another goes right, but for the most part our stages aren't shot over a place the size of a football field, but rather take place in areas about 50 x 100 or so. Much bigger and we have made a shooting game into a "how fast can you run? game.

We used to pick up our brass, I for one am going to try to get our matches back on track. I will get 7 buckets and ask that everyone pick it up, if you don't want it, put it in the bucket. If it is marked give it to the shooter. It really isn't all that hard.

As always with range brass, Caveat Emptor

Jim

[kevin c]

Brassing as you go, after each shooter, was popular at our club. We used to call brassing as part of the order, usually combined with picking up mags. Problem was, people almost literally crawling through the shooting areas really puts a crimp in the on deck/next shooter's ability to dry run the stage. It also meant more people down range, and not easily visible since they're all squatted down over the brass - a bit of a problem for the RO clearing our prop laden ranges. And we also have a fairly high proportion of older shooters who simply can't or shouldn't be bending over so much. Regularly skipping over them in the order is a headache for the ARO calling the duties, and, if it is done, by being pointed out sort of creates a little resentment/annoyance for those who get the duty.

We've more or less moved to brassing all at once once the squad is done. It seems more efficient, though we have to be aware of not holding up the next squad.

[steveknapp]

So in another thread HoMiE got me looking over here...

I'm a noob at a lot of this, and I'm sure I'm going to do things without intending that will make someone upset.

But there are ranges where the brass is a mess, unsafe, an eyesore, whatever. All over the ground. I always try to clean up after myself and then some. So if in my non-brass collecting days, I'd sweep up some cases and put them in the bucket. Now I sweep them up, and put whatever I can use in my bag. I'm taking more than I shot, I'm sure of it. But is that wrong?

At a match, completely different mindset for me....And lots of interesting info in this thread.

I've started collecting my brass. Most that shoot 9 don't. Anyone see any ethical issues collecting other brass off the floor? I asked the range, and they said that technically it's theirs, but they really just don't care as long as you're not digging through their buckets and whatnot.

Ask before hand or else you might become this guy...

http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=64813

Agreed. I'd NEVER take it at a match if it wasn't mine without asking. What's described in that thread just sounds rude. People with families and grocery bags of the stuff? CRAZY. That's not me.

My theory would be to the other extreme. Shoot a match with the expectation to loose the brass, and if I get some of it back, so be it. If I'm tearing down the stage when most everyone else has gone home, and there's some on the ground, I'd ask the right folks if I can grab some of it or if it helps fund the range.

I was more thinking practice at the indoor ranges near me. They usually have a layer of brass on the floor about once case deep. You kick them out of your way to get good footings, or if you're willing, you grab their broom and sweep it up. I've been in the only guy in the place, sweeping up 40, 45, and tons of 9mm from some folks who are long gone. That was what I was more thinking about.

[boo radley]

Brassing as you go, after each shooter, was popular at our club. We used to call brassing as part of the order, usually combined with picking up mags. Problem was, people almost literally crawling through the shooting areas really puts a crimp in the on deck/next shooter's ability to dry run the stage. It also meant more people down range, and not easily visible since they're all squatted down over the brass - a bit of a problem for the RO clearing our prop laden ranges. And we also have a fairly high proportion of older shooters who simply can't or shouldn't be bending over so much. Regularly skipping over them in the order is a headache for the ARO calling the duties, and, if it is done, by being pointed out sort of creates a little resentment/annoyance for those who get the duty.

We've more or less moved to brassing all at once once the squad is done. It seems more efficient, though we have to be aware of not holding up the next squad.

I know this past Saturday at an excellent local match I attend, there were around 100 shooters.

In our squad we had 16 shooters; a pretty big squad. But - out of 16:

5 are 'out of commission' : RO, scorekeeper, shooter, previous shooter loading mags, and next shooter on-deck.

3 more might be gone working on a gear problem, buying Gatorades, in the john, wherever.

2 more might be deep in a conversation, or taking a quick break from RO'ing or scoring

6 people is none too many to paste a 32-round large field course, and too few to brass, that's for sure, though most of us try to help the Open shooters get back their SuperComp.

At the end of the match, after the stages is torn down, there's a lot of brass on the ground. Only a couple people -- to my eyes -- make an effort to pick it up, most leave it, not wanting theirs and Shred points out, and not really wanting to pick up anyone *else*'s. It's doing the MD a favor, since HE doesn't have to pick up a bunch of brass, or let it turn black and ugly.

At another match I used to shoot (too long a drive, these days), there were maybe 30 shooters tops; often just 20. Plenty of time between shooters and squads. Picking up brass was encouraged after each shooter. Again, no problem. It's just situations are different.

[Round_Gun_Shooter]

While I do notice a few brass whores out there, for the most part I get my brass back.

At my club, (Bass River) there is almost always someone brassing, including me, after each shooter. Then he or she is handed a fist full of brass and any dropped mags.

At another club I belong to, (Nauset) there is the brass bucket method and the range is left 99% brass free after a match. The club trades the unclaimed brass towards steel targets.

well I see it a little different (as always) very few are picking up brass. I usually shoot then pick up my own. That nickel 40 or 45 shines nice. My brass is all marked but there are times I don't even get half back. The older shooters know the etiquette of taping and brassing. newer shooters seem to not have been taught that it is proper to pick up for the shooter including brass and mags or moon clips.

[M118LR]

At our club during one of our Sunday match's a few shooters got into an argument over one of the shooter pick up brass. It seems one of them did not like that he was picking up ALL the brass. I guess he wanted his brass back. Of course the shooter that had the heart burn was not picking up his own brass any way.