2008 Single Stack National Review

[Dave Gundry]

One thing I think that should be done is to provide a schedule ahead of time - provide times for shooter's meetings, start times, lunch availability times (for spectators), tentative finish times, vendor locations and time's they'll be there (ahem- esp the t-shirt guys), etc. More info is always better. Until we hit registration, we basically knew nothing.

Putting score sheets up - space them out a bit please. Checking scores was like fighting for free twinkies at a fat kid convention...

The prize distribution wasn't as planned - not sure how something like that can be overlooked. I'm sure the class winners are none too happy about it.

Other than that, I'm very happy with the way the match was run. Challenging stages, beautiful facility, TONS of work put in by a few, and lots of work done by the rest to keep things going. The staff was excellent - thanks for all your sacrifices guys and ladies

[zhunter]

jripper

Great post

[scribble]

jripper

Great post

Amen, to that.

This being my first "LARGE" match I don't have anything to compare it too.

I will say that vendors would be nice but I understand that the mail order business is taking over more than face to face as they don't have what everyone wants with them at the matches.

[jripper]

My own feelings:

Just come and shoot it for what it is: A really fun, 1 day match that will test your shooting skills in a gun neutral environment.

Remember, Robbie, and Taran, Todd, and several other "Big Boys" were shooting this match long before it was a Nationals event.

You might ask them why they come every year.

This is like a home coming for me. These ROs are the same group of guys, with a few execeptions, that have been there for all of the matches.

And a lot of the shooters have been coming for many, many years.

I hope the majority of you had fun, and didn't get too wet.

Just a side note, I know that our squad just barely beat the weather on Friday, and several others got shut down for one stage. The ROs shot on Thursday, and there was no beating the weather. They shot in the rain, and mud, and then worked the match for two days, in the rain and mud.

Thanks ROs and staff for a great event.

Keep them coming, and I'll keep coming back, nationals or not, one day or not, prize table or not, 3s or not.

Joel

[Jaxshooter]

Good questions, opinions and answers that also need to be posted on the USPSA Forum. See Zs post there also.

[j1b]

Look. This match is the single stack classic. Nationals or not, it is what it is to the folks that began the whole deal originally.

I was very fortunate to shoot in the first one many moons ago. And several others after. I still have the T-shirts.

The match was what it was. Keep in mind back then limited was just starting - and some of us were shooting single stacks while others were shooting double stacks. It was awesome to have a match simply dedicated to the original - where equipment didn't matter and the shooter did. Needless to say, I never won the match - clearly Rob has won every one.

Were I to guess, I'd say these are his most proud wins. Every year. Like clockwork. He wins. He's the best - and I recognize I was never close. Not even worth considering being close. That's ok. I was also there when we used single stacks against the double stacks. And faired ok I might say.

Because the SS is the way. And it is the truest form.

J

***edited to note I wasn't there this year - but wish I was. Stages were boring stand and shoots that actually tested shooting skill?????? Sign me up!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Edited April 29, 2008 by j1b

[Bryan W]

Nice reply Jack -

I shot the 1st and 2nd SSC matches. They were my favorite matches of the year. The stages were a shooting challenge - straight up.

I hope to shoot it again some day.

[Matt Griffin]

I have a few push/pull comments.

Cost of the match: Exceptional

Door prize of the match: Exceptional

That's a wash, in my opinion. The repair/maintenence kit this year is something that I should have bought, but would never have bought.

Setup/complexity of the match: Adequate. It's a good match that tests shooting ability. How many helicopters do you need?

Facilities: Adequate. For a big match, it would be good to have water on the stages, but that's about it.

Speed: Good. The match moved well. After a 7pm finish at Area6, finishing at 5 with a 45 minute rain delay was great.

My one big gripe:

Registration. While I love the people associated with the SSC, and I love the door prize, forcing us to show up by 7pm the day before eliminates a vacation day for us normal folks that have to travel a ways. And let's face it, everywhere is a ways from Quincy. I would like the option to show up at 7am and register the day I am scheduled to shoot. It only took a minute at the hotel.

Please don't think I have anything in particular to say about the match that is negative, I just think there are some areas that could be improved.

H.

[Ben Stoeger]

Look. This match is the single stack classic. Nationals or not, it is what it is to the folks that began the whole deal originally.

I was very fortunate to shoot in the first one many moons ago. And several others after. I still have the T-shirts.

The match was what it was. Keep in mind back then limited was just starting - and some of us were shooting single stacks while others were shooting double stacks. It was awesome to have a match simply dedicated to the original - where equipment didn't matter and the shooter did. Needless to say, I never won the match - clearly Rob has won every one.

Were I to guess, I'd say these are his most proud wins. Every year. Like clockwork. He wins. He's the best - and I recognize I was never close. Not even worth considering being close. That's ok. I was also there when we used single stacks against the double stacks. And faired ok I might say.

Because the SS is the way. And it is the truest form.

J

***edited to note I wasn't there this year - but wish I was. Stages were boring stand and shoots that actually tested shooting skill?????? Sign me up!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Generally when people complain the stages are to "simple" it means they are going to be stages that I like.

I think this makes me the youngest "old school" person here.

[larry cazes]

The match was what it was. Keep in mind back then limited was just starting - and some of us were shooting single stacks while others were shooting double stacks. It was awesome to have a match simply dedicated to the original - where equipment didn't matter and the shooter did. Needless to say, I never won the match - clearly Rob has won every one.

Hmmm, lots of good posts here and it sounds like a fun well run match, but I must be missing something with this one. Please enlighten me as to how Single Stack is less about the gun and more about shooting than Limited division is. Both divisions are equally fun to shoot as well as equally challenging.

[Ben Stoeger]

The match was what it was. Keep in mind back then limited was just starting - and some of us were shooting single stacks while others were shooting double stacks. It was awesome to have a match simply dedicated to the original - where equipment didn't matter and the shooter did. Needless to say, I never won the match - clearly Rob has won every one.

Hmmm, lots of good posts here and it sounds like a fun well run match, but I must be missing something with this one. Please enlighten me as to how Single Stack is less about the gun and more about shooting than Limited division is. Both divisions are equally fun to shoot as well as equally challenging.

Not to put words in Jacks mouth, but I think he is talking about how not everyone was shooting a widebody yet in limited, so the classic took the capacity issue off the table.

[Carmoney]

My one big gripe:

Registration. While I love the people associated with the SSC, and I love the door prize, forcing us to show up by 7pm the day before eliminates a vacation day for us normal folks that have to travel a ways. And let's face it, everywhere is a ways from Quincy. I would like the option to show up at 7am and register the day I am scheduled to shoot. It only took a minute at the hotel.

I agree with this wholeheartedly. Some of us need to be able to work a full day and drive over the night before the match. Registration at the SSC was fast and smooth as always, but it would sure be nice to be able to sign in the morning of the match without being penalized. I guess Bill D. must not be a morning person!

If they want to encourage the majority of shooters to be there the night before for registration, how about getting one of the manufacturers to sponsor a nice hospitality room (i.e. free beer and snacks!) from 4 pm to 7 pm the night before the match--and in order to get into the hospitality room you have to present a ticket that you receive in your registration packet.

[Neomet]

Mike,

Glad you had a great time even if you couldn't get it to rain on you.

[zhunter]

I think that with a single stack, it is about the skills more than Limited. Fewer bullets equates to having to place more importance on accuracy as thee is no room for make-up shots unless you want to make standing reloads.

And as for reloads, because you only have 8 rounds in the magazine, reloads take on more importance because there are more of them. And that is part of my point about too many short courses, reloading is a HUGE part of shooting single stack, so lets test the skills of reloading a bit more. All but say two stages should have at least 2 reloads.

[RIIID]

As to a hospitality room, Larry Bullock used to have one at the old match hotel for several years before his untimely death. I'm sure the 1911 Society would gladly let anyone host one again.

I guess I'm a little defensive when people want to change the way the SSC is run. There has been 11 years of history to this match before USPSA began its association with it. A lot of people ignored this match for years and only now shoot it because USPSA has a single stack division. It's a good thing that the SSC doesn't look and feel like a USPSA match 100%.

Rich

[LuvLee]

"Facilities: Adequate. For a big match, it would be good to have water on the stages, but that's about it."

The stats runner has water in a cooler on the 4-wheeler. The stats runner goes through every stage at least every 20-30 minutes. Several people from each squad/stage on each day took water from said cooler on said 4-wheeler. Stats runner offered water several times to each squad/stage in the am and assumed that people would still remember that there was water on the 4-wheeler a few hours later without having to be told every 30 minutes. Hopefully since this will be posted on the forum and everyone reads it, there will be no further problems next year and everyone will know that there IS water available to competitors on the range.

Deb

[JThompson]

Well Deb... I was there for both days and I did see the four wheeler drop off water to the staff, but not the squads. I'm not saying it didn't happen, but it was not common knowledge that the water was available to the squads. I watched 24 stages of shooting and never heard/saw an offer or someone, other than range staff, receive water from said four wheeler.

[CATM1]

Well Deb... I was there for both days and I did see the four wheeler drop off water to the staff, but not the squads. I'm not saying it didn't happen, but it was not common knowledge that the water was available to the squads. I watched 24 stages of shooting and never heard/saw an offer or someone, other than range staff, receive water from said four wheeler.

Just to throw in my opinion, let's make it simple, do away with prizes for all, give them a trophy, and tell everyone to suck it up and take responsibilitiy for themselves. I have participated and worked this match multiple times, it is a fantastic way to spend the day with old friends and make new ones.

As to the issue of feeding competitors and providing them water on their command, put something in your $300.00 shooting bag to tide you over till help arrives.

Have a nice day

[jripper]

My one big gripe:

Registration. While I love the people associated with the SSC, and I love the door prize, forcing us to show up by 7pm the day before eliminates a vacation day for us normal folks that have to travel a ways. And let's face it, everywhere is a ways from Quincy. I would like the option to show up at 7am and register the day I am scheduled to shoot. It only took a minute at the hotel.

I agree with this wholeheartedly. Some of us need to be able to work a full day and drive over the night before the match. Registration at the SSC was fast and smooth as always, but it would sure be nice to be able to sign in the morning of the match without being penalized. I guess Bill D. must not be a morning person!

If they want to encourage the majority of shooters to be there the night before for registration, how about getting one of the manufacturers to sponsor a nice hospitality room (i.e. free beer and snacks!) from 4 pm to 7 pm the night before the match--and in order to get into the hospitality room you have to present a ticket that you receive in your registration packet.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I think you can register the morning of the match. You just don't get the door prize.

And, remeber that this is a one day format. If you had 125 people registering at 7:00 am, on the day of the match, then you could not start at 8:00 am. The door prize is incentive to register the day before.

SO, take the day off of work, and register and get your $60 door prize, or

Come the next day, register, and forfeit the $60 prize (take the money you would have made working, and buy one!)

Joel

[JThompson]

Well Deb... I was there for both days and I did see the four wheeler drop off water to the staff, but not the squads. I'm not saying it didn't happen, but it was not common knowledge that the water was available to the squads. I watched 24 stages of shooting and never heard/saw an offer or someone, other than range staff, receive water from said four wheeler.

Just to throw in my opinion, let's make it simple, do away with prizes for all, give them a trophy, and tell everyone to suck it up and take responsibilitiy for themselves. I have participated and worked this match multiple times, it is a fantastic way to spend the day with old friends and make new ones.

As to the issue of feeding competitors and providing them water on their command, put something in your $300.00 shooting bag to tide you over till help arrives.

Have a nice day

Let not get melodramatic here... I said nothing about food. It's common at large matches to have water available. If you need to charge for it fine... tell everyone a $1 a bottle and announce it will be available off the four wheelers at the shooters meeting. Nobody wants to hump a gallon of water all over the range.

I didn't post this stuff to stir up shit, I posted it to help make the match better for next year. It's the details that can make or break an event.

I've said what I wanted to say and will leave it here.

Edited April 29, 2008 by JThompson

[CliffR]

Drinking water was appreciated, but, the running water on the stages needs to go! Also, it was a long run to shelter from the far stages for the severe storm warning, glad I shot first.

Awesome earth work put in by the staff to try to keep our feet dry. I understand on Thursday, when you dropped a mag it disappeared.

[jripper]

Let not get melodramatic here... I said nothing about food. It's common at large matches to have water available. If you need to charge for it fine... tell everyone a $1 a bottle and announce it will be available off the four wheelers at the shooters meeting. Nobody wants to hump a gallon of water all over the range.

I didn't post this stuff to stir up shit, I posted it to help make the match better for next year. It's the details that can make or break an event.

I've said what I wanted to say and will leave it here.

In the past, it has been announced. I missed the shooters meeting, so I didn't hear if it was or not, I'm assuming it was not.

Sometimes, the staff member has asked the shooters if they wanted anything to drink.

However, it's hard to reach everyone, as there is always someone shooting, pasting targets, loading mags, etc.

I don't think it was a money issue at all.

The first few SS I shot, water was on your own. Also, at some other major matches, it's been the same.

I've learned not to rely on the match provider for water.

You don't have to haul a gallon around (did this for many years).

A couple of bottles in the shooting bag will keep you hydrated, except in the most severe conditions (This would be PASA in July, AKA 2004/2005 nationals, if memory serves correct).

Anyway, I guess it did not say in the match info that water would be provided, so don't expect it to be, and if it is, then it's a bonus.

Joel

[whiskey1]

I really enjoyed the entire experience. This was my 1st nationals and 1st SSC, but I have shot a couple of area matches. I thought the stages were a perfect mix. While there were several short speed shoots, they were balanced nicely by the number of points available on the longer courses and the standards. As a test of all around ability the number of points per type of course seems more important to me than actual number of speed shoots vs. field courses vs. standards.

BTW, I carried the same twelve ounce bottle of water all day and drank it after my 11th stage. I was having too much fun to realize I was thirsty earlier. Lunch was great.

The only bummer for me was a third C finish (those other two guys obviously had a great match) and no plaque to show for it. Obviously, a rather minor complaint. I guess if it were very important I could frame the final results...not planning on going that far. With 70 some C's shooting I feel that a top three is a good accomplishment.

This was absolutely the best group of ROs that I have ever shot with. Even after I prematurely taped a target resulting in a reshoot for our last shooter during the huge downpour on Friday, the RO chose to "not say anything, if you can't say something nice". Under the circumstances I thought that was a great domonstration of self control. Thanks.

I also got to speak with Dave S., Robbie L., Phil S., Mike S., and several other legends in our sport. Very, very, cool.

[Flexmoney]

If we can step back and take a look at the big picture...

If people that don't often complain are pointing out a water issue, then there might have been a water issue. Maybe it was due to communication...it doesn't have to be a blame game. It's feedback.

I've been to Nationals at PASA (which I like a lot). They had orange water coolers on every bay. Plus, they had a Shooter's Services cart bringing water bottles around. (and, I'd start the day carrying my own water...which we'd buy by the case).

Fielding and filling the orange water coolers...that is a job that takes some manpower (staff) and time. That probably falls on the Quartermaster and Shooter's Services folks...who are likely going to be otherwise tasked for the first hour or two of the day. As a Match Director, it is yet another thing that I have to provision for.

You can't seem to have too much water. Well, unless it is falling from the sky.

[CSEMARTIN]

There wasn't a water issue.

There was a lady driving around all day with a cooler-- jam packed with ice cold water. I grabbed four bottles throughout the day. All you had to do was pay attention to the sound of an ATV.