Rocket35 Posted January 29, 2008 Share Posted January 29, 2008 When I first started I had a glock , then a 1911, then a para. I always swore I would never pay that much money for a gun. 6 months later I did. Now I know why they are worth it and would never go back. Back when I was swearing them off there was no way you could convince me otherwise. Cant tell you what changed my mind. But it is changed for good. Sort of like the difference in a chevy impala and a corvette. A corvette is easier to drive fast like an STI is easier to shoot well. Amazing- this statement describes my experience exactly. Sure I did pretty well with the Glock- but the S_I will always be a better gun. For me, the trigger and better accuracy have helped me achieve more. I have improved with the improved platform. And lets all be honest- just because Dave can do it with a Glock doesn't mean that any of us will ever be able to do it! I am sorry, but I am tired of hearing that same 'ol excuse. Ultimately it is the shooter- but confidence and desire for, and with, the gun plays a role also I think. Not to mention mechanical superiority. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted January 29, 2008 Share Posted January 29, 2008 I think that, what I lot of poeple "miss" is one of the fundamentals...locating the target. For shooters that aren't calling the shot no amount of gun is going to help much...until they do. For those that get calling the shot, I have a thread around here on defining and locating the target (SPOT). In that thread, I demonstrate how a gun and shooter (combined) can be effective in our game if they can manage even an 8 inch group at 25y. I'm not going to link it. It's called wanna-b-speedy part II. If it's for you, you will find it on your own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ankeny Posted January 30, 2008 Share Posted January 30, 2008 "Just think how well Dave Sevigny could shoot with an better gun." How many of you remember reading that comment on another shooting forum. The quote is paraphased, and I think I read it (of all places) over on GlockTalk 3-4 years ago. Think about it. Do you really believe it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BSeevers Posted January 30, 2008 Share Posted January 30, 2008 "Just think how well Dave Sevigny could shoot with an better gun."How many of you remember reading that comment on another shooting forum. The quote is paraphased, and I think I read it (of all places) over on GlockTalk 3-4 years ago. Think about it. Do you really believe it? Hmm. I am pretty sure there is no place above National Champion. That is a pretty stupid comment. Gotta love those forums. Kind of insulting to Dave's accomplishments also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlos Posted January 30, 2008 Share Posted January 30, 2008 "Just think how well Dave Sevigny could shoot with an better gun."How many of you remember reading that comment on another shooting forum. The quote is paraphased, and I think I read it (of all places) over on GlockTalk 3-4 years ago. Think about it. Do you really believe it? Hi Ron! I remember that quote! I think you are right about it appearing on GT. Funny thing about that paraphrased quote & the people who might believe it: by "better gun," most people are thinking "1911 = better gun." Yet, Sevigny DOES shoot a custom 1911 in the single stack nationals AND he practices with it; I know because he came here to our section & shot a club match with his 1911 before the last nationals. He did not win the single stack nationals (even though he was shooting a "better" gun). Spook wrote: "I think the S_I vs Glock boils down to this in the end. You can do equally well with either, but the illusion that you're shooting a better gun makes people happy (or, the illusion that they're shooting the worse gun makes them want the "better" one...)" -er, is that the equivalent of the "placebo effect" in the shooting world? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cy Soto Posted January 30, 2008 Author Share Posted January 30, 2008 I found an old thread the other day. It came in handy to point out how flat a (stock) Glock can shoot at Major power factor.I bring it up here because it is handy, and relavent. http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?...c=23173&hl= Now, in this thread, folks are talking about how important the gun is. Well, if you look at the videos in the first post of that thread (link above)...you can see that my stock Glock was playing with the open gunners. And, um...it ain't like these guys don't know how to shoot. But, the Glock did alright (and oddly enough...the sights were off). Linky no worky... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted January 30, 2008 Share Posted January 30, 2008 I found an old thread the other day. It came in handy to point out how flat a (stock) Glock can shoot at Major power factor.I bring it up here because it is handy, and relavent. http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?...c=23173&hl= Now, in this thread, folks are talking about how important the gun is. Well, if you look at the videos in the first post of that thread (link above)...you can see that my stock Glock was playing with the open gunners. And, um...it ain't like these guys don't know how to shoot. But, the Glock did alright (and oddly enough...the sights were off). Linky no worky... Worked for me just now from your post Cy..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocket35 Posted January 30, 2008 Share Posted January 30, 2008 Me too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neomet Posted January 30, 2008 Share Posted January 30, 2008 It is open division panties, not class. Think about it. It's a subtle...but important...distinction.Here is Tilley in flip-flops (from Henning's great website): http://henningshootsguns.com/movies/2006Ca...risshooting.wmv I've shot in sandles a few times. It bite me at the end of this year. I caught an edge and the toe of my sandles curled under. It was rather funny. That is when the idea for Fleet of Feet Cleats® hit me. Tilley obviously missed this.... Ms. Neomet used to shoot in flip flops at the indoor range until one rather warm .45 case wedged itself nicely between her foot and the sandle strap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sslav Posted January 30, 2008 Share Posted January 30, 2008 It ought to float your boat and make you happy. Just don't tell me a Glock isn't good enough. I think the S_I vs Glock boils down to this in the end. You can do equally well with either, but the illusion that you're shooting a better gun makes people happy (or, the illusion that they're shooting the worse gun makes them want the "better" one...) Actually does it matter if the advantage is real or imagined? The belief in the advantage could be enough to make you shoot better. So much of this or any other sport is mental. Top end athletes spend a lot of dough on shrinks and hypnotherapists. Whats a 2K gun compared to that? Slav Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JThompson Posted January 30, 2008 Share Posted January 30, 2008 (edited) Hey now...my cleats come with tuned socks (extra charge). They do require the user to run extra long shoe laces, for best result. You aren't getting these babies at Wal-mart. Just fun'in folks...don't get your panties in a bunch (ask us about our "open division" panties) "Tuned Socks" :goof: Edited January 30, 2008 by JThompson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted January 30, 2008 Share Posted January 30, 2008 Slav, I think that is important point. On the flip side...the rubber has to meet the road sometime, right? We end up with quite a number of shooters that become equipment experts...when they would really benefit from learning how to shoot better. Which is somewhat ironic...given that all the information a competitor needs can be found right here on Brian's Forum. The forums sections that focus on "shooting" are highly under-utilized. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johann the Horrible Posted January 30, 2008 Share Posted January 30, 2008 Ya sure, but it is SOmuch easier to "buy a solution" than to go out to the range and fix th problem yourself. Something like a "hardware solution" to a "software problem". Added to that is that it is kinda fun to buy neat stuff. It is also nicer to brag with your "big stick" that with your lack of skill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neomet Posted January 30, 2008 Share Posted January 30, 2008 For those that get calling the shot, I have a thread around here on defining and locating the target (SPOT). In that thread, I demonstrate how a gun and shooter (combined) can be effective in our game if they can manage even an 8 inch group at 25y. I'm not going to link it. It's called wanna-b-speedy part II. If it's for you, you will find it on your own. Wow. In a thread of opinions (mine included of course) I find this gem. Thanks sir, that one just got saved to my favorites. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AikiDale Posted January 30, 2008 Share Posted January 30, 2008 Hello Cy, I'm a little late to this thread, been out of town and off the computer for the last 4 days. After reading through 4 pages of "it's the Indian not the arrow" it's high time we got to the truth of the matter and I'll give you two reasons to spend $2,000 for the custom gun over the stock Glock. 1. On the one hand the question is like asking why would anyone spend $50,000 for a Mercedes when they could have a Hundai for $11,000. Both will get you from point A to point B just fine. I like the Mercedes better. Maybe it's just me, YMMV. 2. You get more attention from the girls with a custom open blaster. Girls do not say, "Wow, is that a Glock?" They do say "Wow! Cool looking blaster! Can I touch it? Who made it? Is that one of Benny Hill's? That's Hot! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skywalker Posted January 30, 2008 Share Posted January 30, 2008 What makes a $ 2K pistol better? Mostly nothing (to a certain extent). You CAN win with a $500 Glock or any other cheap gun, provided it's reliably working. It's just ... a bit harder, and it requires a bit more determination to work like mad on fundamentals and training. With a $ 2K pistol you will probably have an easier task, but you won't shoot any better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skywalker Posted January 30, 2008 Share Posted January 30, 2008 (edited) Hmm. I am pretty sure there is no place above National Champion. I think there is. You just need to go international (which Dave did). Edited January 30, 2008 by Skywalker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook Posted January 30, 2008 Share Posted January 30, 2008 It ought to float your boat and make you happy. Just don't tell me a Glock isn't good enough. I think the S_I vs Glock boils down to this in the end. You can do equally well with either, but the illusion that you're shooting a better gun makes people happy (or, the illusion that they're shooting the worse gun makes them want the "better" one...) Actually does it matter if the advantage is real or imagined? The belief in the advantage could be enough to make you shoot better. So much of this or any other sport is mental. Top end athletes spend a lot of dough on shrinks and hypnotherapists. Whats a 2K gun compared to that? Slav My point exactly. Also, I think the emphasis on just the price is irrelevant. I wonder what this thread would look like if S_Is and Glocks were priced equally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook Posted January 30, 2008 Share Posted January 30, 2008 Hmm. I am pretty sure there is no place above National Champion. I think there is. You just need to go international (which Dave did). LOL, I was thinking the same thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boz1911 Posted January 30, 2008 Share Posted January 30, 2008 2K pistols. Last night someone asked me if my gun actually shot as flat as it looked like......mmmm.....Yup! Worth every cent! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BSeevers Posted January 30, 2008 Share Posted January 30, 2008 Hmm. I am pretty sure there is no place above National Champion. I think there is. You just need to go international (which Dave did). LOL, I was thinking the same thing. We have been talking about Limited division or S_I 2K vs Glock's and such. Did Dave win Standard at a WS with a Glock? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook Posted January 30, 2008 Share Posted January 30, 2008 (edited) Hmm. I am pretty sure there is no place above National Champion. I think there is. You just need to go international (which Dave did). LOL, I was thinking the same thing. We have been talking about Limited division or S_I 2K vs Glock's and such. Did Dave win Standard at a WS with a Glock? No Dave won Production at the WS. I think Luca meant to say that there is a place above US National Champion, winning the World Shoot. Edited January 30, 2008 by spook Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skywalker Posted January 30, 2008 Share Posted January 30, 2008 I think Luca meant to say that there is a place above US National Champion, winning the World Shoot. Yeah, that's what I meant. Actually there are 2: winning Panamerican title, and Winning World Shoot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38superman Posted January 30, 2008 Share Posted January 30, 2008 (edited) There you go. Once this thread reared it's ugly head, members of the forum rose up and beat it to death. Never let it be said we don't thrive on controversy around here. My Last shot fired: How come there's no Glock elitist snob club? I see that as the ultimate proof of S_I superiority. Edited January 30, 2008 by 38superman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlos Posted January 30, 2008 Share Posted January 30, 2008 Hmm. I am pretty sure there is no place above National Champion. I think there is. You just need to go international (which Dave did). LOL, I was thinking the same thing. We have been talking about Limited division or S_I 2K vs Glock's and such. Did Dave win Standard at a WS with a Glock? No Dave won Production at the WS. I think Luca meant to say that there is a place above US National Champion, winning the World Shoot. Thanks for catching that Spook - I should have been more clear. My point is: a) there is no significant diference in accuracy between the stock Production division glock Dave used and a Glock used in Limited or IPSC's Standard. Dave's win at the world shoot required him to: 1) shoot MORE accurately due to the Minor scoring for Production division and 2) IPSC's targets are smaller and often further than USPSA's targets. c) The Limited Glock is more than accurate enough for USPSA (that is the point Flex was making - and he has the stats & experience to prove it). So, we can collectively dismiss as untrue the argument that: "you need to spend $2000 for a sufficiently accurate USPSA gun." It simply is not true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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