What makes a $2,000 pistol better?

[Cy Soto]

Hello Folks,

I shall begin by stating that, at my level of proficiency, I have no intention of purchasing a new "Limited-class-super-blaster". In fact, I will not even attempt to shoot in the Limited Division since most of the shooters there are at a level in the game that is far, far superior to mine. For the time being I will continue to shoot my Glock in Production and hope to the Heavens that I can consistently improve my shooting and dream of one day getting past the “D” class.

Now the question...

What makes a $2K or $3K pistol such as a fully customized STI Edge worth its price when compared to a customized Glock (which you can have for around $1,000)?

Thanks!

-Cy

[Flexmoney]

This ought to be good.

[Chris Keen]

Mostly .............. the trigger. And a little bit of personal preference.

[JThompson]

This ought to be good.

Pass the popcorn flex...

[TBF]

IMHO the only advantage to the 1911 platform over the Glock is the trigger .

The Glock trigger can be improved easily , and can be pretty good , but not as good as a 1911 trigger .

This statement applies to my experience only , I have heard tales of custom Glocks having trigger pulls that are equal to 1911's , but have not ever felt one that fits that description .

Glocks have an advantage in availability of cheap mags .

I have a G35 that I like quite a bit .

Travis F.

[BSeevers]

I'll chime in.

First its the shooter not the gun that wins. That's why Dave can win the Production Nationals and the Limited Nationals with a sub 1K Glock. You are right that a lot of big dogs run in Limited but they are big dogs for their skills, not for their gun choice.

Second a 2K S_I is a better gun. Its customized with gunsmith fit parts and frankly looks better. Will it make you a better shooter. Maybe a LITTLE because its a single action trigger, so, its a little easier at first to prevent trigger jerk BUT, but see paragraph about Dave above.

See any racing to get an analogy. A Carbon Fiber whizbang sailboat will be used by the winners in a National sailboat race but you or I could barely finish with either it or a dingy if you get my drift.

The better shooter will win the match reguardless of Glock or S_I.

[Chris Keen]

Very well said, Bill.

PS I've never heard of O-HoHo, where is that ???

Edited January 27, 2008 by CHRIS KEEN

[chuckbradley]

When I first started I had a glock , then a 1911, then a para. I always swore I would never pay that much money for a gun. 6 months later I did. Now I know why they are worth it and would never go back. Back when I was swearing them off there was no way you could convince me otherwise. Cant tell you what changed my mind. But it is changed for good. Sort of like the difference in a chevy impala and a corvette. A corvette is easier to drive fast like an STI is easier to shoot well.

[mark dye]

We gunsmiths don't really determine what a pistol is "worth" to a shooter. We can only build guns, and then charge what we have to charge for our labor. Sometimes it is surprising how much time, skill, and expensive machinery is necessary to build a $2000 pistol. We have to eat too! It is up to the customer to decide if the hardware and labor are worth the price. How much will it improve your shooting? Only you can decide that. As has been previously mentioned, a lot of very good shooters compete at a high level with Glocks. Expensive guns do not make a shooter, but they sure are cool toys! If your only objective were to catch a few fish, a $1000 jonboat will do the trick. You don't see many at a major bass tournament though!

Mark Dye

[Jake Di Vita]

Is one better than the other?

No.

[Paul Santiago]

this is a good question since I was at a gun show yesterday and saw an STI egde (.40), with 6 mags for 1199.00. I managed to resist the prodding to buy it by sunuva and my other buddy.

I currently shoot a glock and have been in the sport for less than a year so I'm not quite ready to fork out that kind of money for a shooter. I have too many other aspects of this sport to learn for the gun to make a difference.

I still have the guys number if I change my mind

Edited January 27, 2008 by pas44

[zhunter]

This could be a 6 pack thread

[scirocco38s]

Is one better than the other--No

They both are competent devices, but that aside--I'll not shoot a glock.

That is a personal preference- I dont like the grip angle.

After competeing with 1911/2011 style guns, they are the only guns that I enjoy shooting now.

[38superman]

The Glock, XD, S&W M&P and other polymer guns have many fine qualities.

As a carry gun they offer light weight, high round count, accuracy, reliability, etc.

However, they are guns that are mass marketed to Police, Military and civilians for a variety of purposes.

They are mass produced and sold by the gazillions which is one of the reasons they are relatively inexpensive.

It's true that many people compete successfully with stock Glocks and not just in production.

It's also true that you can take a Glock or similar platform and customize it to a high degree.

However, by the time you get to where you want to go with it, it will not be a sub $1000 gun anymore.

Depending on how far you want to go it could approach the price tag of a 2011.

A $2000 race gun is a special purpose high tech gun, designed and built for competition.

It is a low volume semi-custom or custom firearm often built (or at least assembled) by a gunsmith.

It takes more work to build a reliable and smooth breaking 2 lb trigger.

It takes work to mate a slide and barrel to extremely close tolerances.

More work equals more money.

They are just different animals.

At the end of the day, you just need to go with what feels right to you.

Tony

Edited January 27, 2008 by 38superman

[Neomet]

Two thoughts here. The first is that, as in most things, there is a diminishing return as you climb the price ladder. You can have something that does 90% of what the Custom S_I does for 50% or so of the cost. This presumes that you are comfortable with the balance of a polymer pistol as opposed to an all steel gun. That equation though is a universal truth not solely confined to this sport, as others have noted.

The second is that shooting to me is an experience not solely gauged (thankfully) by where I place in the results. There is something intrinsically satisfying about operating a custom or semi custom pistol that goes beyond its usefulness as a tool. I love the way that a slide operates on a custom gun, I have a deep appreciation for the craftsmanship that goes into building a precision instrument, of the dedication required to hand fit parts and to create something that is aesthetically pleasing at the same time.

Am I a couple places further up the results with a custom gun? Maybe, maybe not, but that isn't really why I like to shoot them.

[el pres]

It just feels good !!!

Oh ya! and the trigger, and the weight balance, and the tuned magazines, and the thumb safety, and the beaver tail,

and the long soft loads, and reduced muzzle flip, and available accessories, and choice in color, finish, sexiness, etc.,

and the .......

I feel I can comment on this as I am a recovering plastic gun shooter but they are tools not machines...

Edited January 27, 2008 by DIRTY CHAMBER

[SA Friday]

Man, can you all dance! Let me toss this out there: in Limited/L-10/or Open Divisions, just who is shooting a Glock or any other composite framed platform winning major events? I really don't know for a fact that anyone other than Sevigny is capable. So, wouldn't it be reasonable to conclude that Sevigny is an anomaly and the gun DOES matter?

Sorry, I can't dance, but I love a good discussion.

[Viggen]

Trigger feels nicer on a 1911 type.

Is it worth another $1000 -$1500? NO!

[EricW]

An S_I is "worth it" if it keeps you in the game. The level of customization that you can do to fit an S_I to your physique is the key to their popularity. Having a gun that doesn't bite me over the course of a 500 to 1000 round day and doesn't chew my hand up in practice is worth the dough IMO. I may change my mind if I start shooting again now that the M&P is out. I may not.

If a law was passed that I had to shoot a Glock or nothing, I'd quit. I love Glocks ... for about the first 100 to 150 rounds. After that, the bloodstains on my shirt, hat, and glasses start to annoy me (and disturb others). There's no amount of taping I can do to fix it. Fortunately, I don't live in a one-size-fits-all sport and have the option to choose other guns and other divisions that are more fun for me.

And as has been hashed out 10^23 times before on the internet, the price of the gun is really inconsequential to the rest of the costs of the sport. I say buy whatever suits your fancy and shoot it. Your gas, ammo, and hotel bill will easily outstrip the price of any Open gun in the first year. You might as well shoot EXACTLY what you want and what you like doing it.

And, being America, we have the right to do what's fun for us with the expectation that we don't need judging by others as we do so. Do as you please and celebrate USPSA diversity.

[DHTampa]

Neomet is a poet:

"The second is that shooting to me is an experience not solely gauged (thankfully) by where I place in the results. There is something intrinsically satisfying about operating a custom or semi custom pistol that goes beyond its usefulness as a tool. I love the way that a slide operates on a custom gun, I have a deep appreciation for the craftsmanship that goes into building a precision instrument, of the dedication required to hand fit parts and to create something that is aesthetically pleasing at the same time."

Custom guns are functional art. Production guns are tools. I own several of each. I enjoy shooting them both but can't say it any better than Neomet about the joys of shooting the custom stuff.

[konkapot]

Man oh man. So many things to say. And there sure are an awful lot of emotional and sensitve people on this forum. I'll be gentle.

Let me just throw these out there....

1. Does that 2k limited gun intrinsically shoot any faster than your Glock/HK/Sig/Beretta?

2. Is it functionally more accurate?

3. Will it make up for not practicing?

4. When you ask people on enos.com what makes that 2k gun so much better, can you get a single, empirical, data based response?

It's easy to say "well, Sevigny is the only guy rocking the house with the Glock....he must be an anomaly." Agreed that Mr. Sevigny could do great with a wrist rocket and a bag of marbles while wearing a welder's helmet.

There are some folks (some even on this very forum!) that, although not quite Mr. Sevigny, aren't slouches with Glocks and Berettas and CZs. If you take the ego and "cool" and "sexy" out of it, the logical argument for a 2k limited gun rapidly loses steam.

No disrespect intended towards any gunsmiths out there making their living building 2k limited guns.

FY42385

[Jake Di Vita]

It's all personal preference. Shooting what you are comfortable with will always trump every other platform.

[boz1911]

I've owned both. Personally I absolutely prefer the S_I platform. Recently sold my Glock 35 and am now Glock-free and will remain as such. Can't certain people shoot Glocks superbly? Absolutely, ,they just ain't my cup of tea.

[Ron Ankeny]

It's all personal preference. Shooting what you are comfortable with will always trump every other platform.

Yep, and for competition I prefer the 2011 so as far as I am concerned that makes it "better", period...end of conversation.

P.S. I shoot a Glock in Production and all of my personal defense guns are Glocks.

Edited January 27, 2008 by Ron Ankeny

[CDRODA396]

Are the $400 plastic and $2000 steel guns both accurate and reliable enough to be competitive at any level, absolutely or they wouldnt last in our game very long.

But which one is the background on your computer screen...which one fits your hand so well you want to fondle it on the couch even when you're watching the boobtube...which one makes you feel like "The Man" when it comes out of the range bag and settles onto your hip? Thats the one for you...and for me its a steel gun baby!