Requirements to shoot Level 2 and 3 matches

[EricBudd]

I was thinking about the upcoming year and the staff I (don't) have. All of a sudden I got a crazy idea....

To shoot USPSA level 2 and level 3 matches you need to be a USPSA member. How about adding the requirement that you have worked so may hours in the past year to support local matches. Maybe you need 5 hours setup/tear-down/stats/registration to 'qualify' to shoot an area match. Maybe 10 hours to shoot a National match. For the guys that help, 5 hours isn't a burden since they help anyway. For the guys who shoot-and-scoot, screw'em. Now I know everyone can't be forced to help every match and some travel a long distance but without help and volunteers local matches won't happen.

I'm normally against additional mandates on match directors, but I'd gladly sign a card that someone helped - if I get some help.

So, good idea or do I still need to sober up from Christmas?

Eric

[joseywales]

I feel your MD pain...but I'm thinking you should put the 'sauce' back down.

[Jaxshooter]

Don't think the Headquaters people would be willing or have time to look for an additional attachment on entry forms for Level 2 & 3 matches to make sure you did your volunteer time. I agree all clubs need help from all shooters setting up and tearing down. In years past I got to the club at daylight for setup and stayed 3-4 hours after the match putting equipment away for USPSA and ICORE matches every month. I can no longer do that due to health reasons, hopefully one day I will be able to again.

[ChuckS]

No

[mscott]

Bad idea.

[Carlos]

Such a requirement would keep that Eric Graufel guy from showing up here in America and stealing our prize table booty!

Seriously, I think its a bad idea even if the goal (more volunteer participation) is worthwhile.

[jjlefty51]

Volunteer organizations unfortunately run on only a small fraction of the users. It does not matter the sport or organization there are only a few handful of folks that are so committed to having an impact that they step up. I have run a number of volunteer organizations and tried many ways to expand involvement. Most fail because they simply lack the desire. The sooner I accepted that, the sooner my anger went a away.

Reward those that do help and make sure everyone knows that they are receiving those rewards because of their dedication. Who knows maybe it will motivate a few more to get off the couch and contribute back to this great sport.

Good luck.

[Jake Di Vita]

I help a lot in matches around here because I choose to. Require me to do it and I won't be attending or helping again.

[Jim Norman]

Jake says it pretty good.

I am a volunteer. I am not a conscript.

I show up early, I stay late and then take work how (Scores), beat me over the head and I just may become a shoot-n-scooter.

We are always looking to build a bigger better team. We have found that welcoming people in and asing them to help gets most people that are going to help helping. If you have to require someone to help, or badger them into helping, chances are that yes, they will help, but reluctently and then as soon as a different shinny object (sport, hobby, whatever) catches their eye, they will be gone. The person that is asked and then continues or better yet just asks "hey, what can I do?" will be around a long time and may actually be your next MD.

Jim

[BritinUSA]

Even though this sport is volunteer based, there is no reason why volunteers should not receive some kind of reward for their efforts. In our section, those that arrive early for set-up get a reduced match entry fee and club leaders get to shoot half price at all matches (I think).

Everyone is expected to stay and tear down their last stage of the match. As we usually have a squad on each stage this means that everyone just has to tear down one stage. This take 10 minutes at the most (longer if some other evil squad has swiped the ATV at Pueblo ).

This system seems to work well and we usually have enough people for setup but there are times when help is a little scarce. I think any rewards program should be local rather than a requirement for national-type matches.

Just my 2 cents.

Edited December 27, 2007 by BritinUSA

[wide45]

Nationals Slots for the Eastern Lakes Section, are meted out to the clubs to distribute. They must have a policy for awarding slots, on file with the SC. The section does not dictate any clubs policy, just that they have one. Most of the clubs tie worker hours into it. Non workers will be last in line for a club slot. They may still get a left over slot from the section, or apply to the waiting list. There aren't that many who go to the Nats, so there are often surplus slots. I've never heard a complaint.

[Kingman]

one way is open the match up for someone to design and set up, but requiring the work. won't work

[JimmyZip]

What about a carrot for that mule? I've often thought that you could set up something special for those that stay and help. I have thought that scheduling a practice session after a match that required only the help in take down of the regualr match might be good. This might encourage new shooters to stay and get more advice and practice in a single stage set-up. You could even leave a stage that is on the simple side up and let those that help take down the rest, stay and shoot it. Leave it up for a designated time and time each shooter, and let them get some match style practice.

It could also get people who are more serious together with those that wish to just shoot better. I will even offer to do this at my range this year now that I am once again thnking about it.

Just a thought, JimmyZip

[North]

At our club if you come to set up the night prior you get 3 bucks off your match fee.

There is also a 5 dollar "deposit" if you help tear down you get your 5 bucks back.

[EricBudd]

OK, so it isn't a good idea. But, you never know till you ask....

We do offer a discount to the shooters who come early and setup (by section by-law) but, at the end of the day, $10 for 3 hours of work just isn't a real factor to most shooters. I know some gun clubs require x amount of hours service annually to retain membership - the thought was that the model might work for USPSA. I guess not.

I guess I misjudged how much people disliked the idea of a service requirement to participate in major matches where the guys running the match, designing the stages, ROing, and doing stats are putting in a lot of hours for free. In the end, the guys who work and volunteer for the sport will and the guys who don't won't.

(BTW - for top international shooters who can't work local matches - they could always volunteer to run a free Juniors seminar for 1/2 day before or after the big match)

Oh well, back to the bottle for my next (not so good) idea.

Eric

[Jim Norman]

Eric,

The idea is not bad just because it might not work on the National Level.

You can always inplement the work/reward program at your club. If possible, hold back a buck or two for "Staff Incentive" and at the end of the season, throw a dinner party at a local eatery for workers and spouses. Only the hard core gets to come, you decide what the requirement is and let it be known. If you wind up with too much help, you might have to increase the hold back, or change the format to "we pay for workers, but your guest is on you". I seriously doubt that you will over load the budget however.

As you said, those that work, will work for free and those that don't wouldn't for a free match.

Jim

[JFlowers]

The 2008 SC Sectional has a waiting list for ROs and Staff... yeap more people want to staff the match than they need. Sounds like Jack Suber and Linda Chico have a great handle on the whole carrot and stick thing. You might want to talk to them and see what ideas they can help you with.

[ChrisStock]

I help a lot in matches around here because I choose to. Require me to do it and I won't be attending or helping again.

Agreed...

I have been to a few matches where because I helped setup, I got $2 off. Hell, I would've helped for free, as I can scope the stages out without guilt I like nearly all of the folks I shoot with, and as long as the person in charge of setting up the stage isn't being a butt, I don't mind pitching in.

[vluc]

Nice though it might be, you can't legislate morality. Either people help or they don't for a variety of reason. As a former "shoot and scoot" who now helps setup, RO and tear down matches, I needed certain other things to happen in my life before I did it. They did and now I do. Add to that a desire to pay back what I had been given. The desire might be there for some, but other factors keep them away.

To a degree, I was nurtured by a number of people at different clubs over several years. That, I believe, is the key. Treat me as meat or demand that I have to do all of it, and I would say "no". Get a few to help do one thing, then slowly bring them in to do more. They key is "chunks".

Too many clubs want the home run - demand the shooter do everything and refuse their help if all they can do is setup, or RO or tear down. Home Runs are rare, but the single and occasional double add up.

There were/are many people who want to help. Much of it is in how you present it and deliver it. Identify and nurture, provide carrots if need be. But recognize that not everyone will have that need or desire to get involved. Find them...that is the key. They are there. That new shooter who asks some questions...great opportunity to present learning to him at stage setup. That 1 or 2 year shooter who wants to get better and asks questions - tag him/her.

If you take the stance that you should not have to ask someone for help, they should just "know" they should help....don't hold your breath. People do love to be asked to help. It is flattering to anyones ego that others feel they have something to give. But be sincere about it. Don't blow smoke up my butt just to get me to help. I may do it once, but you won't see me after that.

We/they are a cherished resource that has to be worked on. They don't fall out of the sky. All of the staff that help should be charged with trying to get more to join in, not just the MD.

Edited December 27, 2007 by vluc

[Ron Ankeny]

I used to have some pretty strong feelings about this topic, and I still do have quite an opinion. As one who has given until it hurts, I know there are folks in this game who work to promote the sport for others, there are those who are in it for themselves (and their ego), and there are those who shoot just for fun and recreation.

I have learned the real work horse will bust his or her butt, burnout, take a break, then come back for more abuse. They do it for the love of the sport and they just ain't wired quite right to put up with some of the crap.

Those who shoot for recreation are often overlooked assets and this sport would die without their help. There are thousands of shooters who show up with a smile and they are willing to help if we just ask. As a MD I am frustrated with myself because those folks usually don't know what to do or how to do it and my attitude is usally so bad when I am swamped that I need to be careful not to piss them off...

Then there are those who are in it for what they can take from the organization. I refuse to own their problem.

I see vluc posted while I was typing out a reply. I appreciate seeking a similar point of view from a different perspective.

Edited December 27, 2007 by Ron Ankeny

[joseywales]

Either people help or they don't for a variety of reasons. As a former "shoot and scoot" who now helps setup, RO and tear down matches, I needed certain other things to happen in my life before I did it. They did and now I do. Add to that a desire to pay back what I had been given. The desire might be there for some, but other factors keep them away.

+1. Brother, you said a mouthful!

If you take the stance that you should not have to ask someone for help, they should just "know" they should help....don't hold your breath. People do love to be asked to help....But recognize that not everyone will have that need or desire to get involved. Find them...that is the key. They are there.

We've got a core group that's been doing the setups for the last 2 years, and for '08, we've been able to recruit a pool of new MD's. These folks always attend our matches, and often times help setup, and always help teardown/put away toys...yet even this group of dedicated shooters required a personal touch to get involved as a MD.

[wide45]

One thing that you have to keep in mind is that everyone has a different comfort level, of work they will give.

You can't make one work more than they are willing. Trying to, will drive them away.

[scottmilk9]

Instead of having it a mandatory USPSA rule, why not make it a club level rule. I'm all for local members helping out. Just my .02 cents.

[Merlin Orr]

IMO... Most USPSA shooters chose this particular sport because of the freedom it offers & Most USPSA shooters are Type A personalities. Most free spirited type A people do not take well to being - or the perception of being - "forced" to do anything. The (great) little club I belong to has the same core of people doing most of the MD chores but also has a pretty good group of helpers usually. The only reason these helpers show up is due to the personal relationships developed over time and by the treatment they receive when they do show up to help.

Ask them.

Assign responsibilities and let them do what is asked of them.

Check the finished product but...Do NOT micro manage your help.

Say thank you.

Smile a lot.

[Alan Meek]

80/20

80% of the work is done by 20% of the people. While this is a general number I am sure that it is not much better than that at it is probably less on the number of people that help.

Alan