How much needed to spend to shoot open

[rbx123]

I'm new to the sport (4 months)and shooting single stack and love it. Thinking about an open gun.

Question 1: Should I wait awhile before I get into the open guns?

Question 2: If I were to get an open gun, what should I buy. I have limited funds and really wonder if I would even know the difference between a 2K gun and a 5k gun. Would I?

Thanks for any help!!!!!!!!!!

[G-ManBart]

I'm new to the sport (4 months)and shooting single stack and love it. Thinking about an open gun.

Question 1: Should I wait awhile before I get into the open guns?

Question 2: If I were to get an open gun, what should I buy. I have limited funds and really wonder if I would even know the difference between a 2K gun and a 5k gun. Would I?

Thanks for any help!!!!!!!!!!

I wouldn't tell anyone to not buy an Open gun as they're a lot of fun, but there are a lot of factors that come into play.

Before you decide on anything, talk to the Open shooters in your club and try to shoot their guns. Most anyone will gladly let you run a couple of magazines through their gun after a match or some other convenient time. Not only that, but in the process you might find out about guns for sale that are a good deal.

There are a number of different sizes, configurations, and calibers (9x19, 9x21, 9x23 .38 Super, 38 Supercomp, .40S&W) which makes it a complicated choice. Do you want an S_I, Para or EAA based gun? Do you mind the snappier recoil of shorter guns or prefer the softer recoil of full size guns? Do you reload now? Do you have access to a smith who works on raceguns and/or can you do some of the work yourself?

For pretty obvious reasons, it seems that frequently people buy what's popular with the very best shooters in the world and that might not be what works best for them right now....hey it works for the best right?

Also keep in mind that everything is more expensive when you start talking Open guns. The initial purchase price is usually pretty high, but then there are other factors. You'll have to either reload or buy expensive specialty ammor for it from one of two suppliers (unless you go with a .40 which is a whole different debate). If you do reload you won't be able to use inexpensive bullets like moly or plated. You'll need a race holster for it. You'll need to spend money on scope batteries. The magazines can be crazy expensive (you'll need at least one big stick minimum and that's $125-175 give or take a bit. The list sorta goes on and on.

When I bought my first Open gun I'd shot a number of them and knew I had to have one. Everybody knew I was looking for a gun and one of the guys hooked me up with a guy selling a used, but very solid gun that was set up the way I wanted. That gun didn't hold me back and ran a gazillion rounds reliably, so I guess it was a good choice.

If I was starting out on a budget now, I'd look around for a good used gun or stretch a little and buy a new EAA Witness Gold Team. Anything else is going to get really expensive fast!

[dstroyed]

First off Welcome to the sport. You must be hooked already if you are thinking Open Gun. You will get more intelligent answers from some of the more seasoned shooters but I will share my thoughts.

I had the same thought about a year into shooting. I found a gun I like, I had the cash and it was available. I shoot it better than any gun I own. I find the dot much easier. My wife calls it a “cheater gun” some call it “old man’s gun” I’m getting older at least feel older now that I 40. Funny thing is I’m building my wife a .22 with a dot right now. I think she is changing her mind.

I suggest shoot a friends first, you will probably know your answer to Q1 before the match is over.

As far as Q2 I’m definitely no the one to answer that. I have only shot my friends and my Joe Hardy Mongoose shorty 9 major. Joey’s guns are not $5k, but they are very nice to say the least. I felt my skill, I wouldn’t now the difference.

Good Luck

[dstroyed]

never mind my error.

Edited October 12, 2007 by dstroyed

[dfwmiket]

If you are thinking about shooting Open, you shouldn't be thinking about how much it's going to cost.

I'd say get the most reliable gun you can, solid equipment, and a good lot of brass. That'll get you started, and I'd throw out a ROUGH figure of 3K for all. ROUGH figure.

-Mike

[shred]

Open is a lot of fun-- be sure to get a gun that runs-- used ones resell fairly well most of the time. It's also more of a commitment-- you have to load for it, even if you don't want to and it's 9:30 the night before the match.. no running to Wally World for a couple boxes of ammo. You have to baby it a little more. You have to go sight it in every so often, you have to keep an eye on the batteries, you have to keep it dry in the rain, you need to practice enough that you know where the dot is, and so on.

[AlamoShooter]

What can you afford? to some $3,000 is out of reach for a toy. If thats how you plan to spend your play $$ get the best that you can and still not worry about the cost.

My Steel Challenge gun = it gets mostly minor loads, is six years old and was shot an average of 400 rounds a week for 70 weeks = my guess is at least 25,000 rounds and it is still tight and accurate. I think dollar wise it works out to $30 a week. But the gun is still worth way over 1/2 its cost. Not too many sports you can do that with the equipment.

Limited funds ? I would say stay hungry- shoot what you have and set a goal for your self. = Like shooting your way into A class ? something like that a goal that is not too easy. And as a reward you will get a "GOOD" Open gun

put some money aside so you can pay cash.

I shot a single stack gun for over 10 years I don't think it hurt me much

[XRe]

Ammo cost ends up roughly similar to other guns, really. The bullets are cheaper, but powder is more expensive, and depending upon your habits and choices, brass can be a concern.

My experience to share is this - at the level you are at, and this being your first open gun, as well, you're not going to be able to tell a huge amount of difference between guns, regardless of cost. At the extremes of the various configurations, sure, you can tell something, but otherwise, it basically won't matter a whole lot for now. Get something, and shoot the snot out of it.

That said - for someone new to Open, and someone, say, at A or below, I would steer you towards a 5" gun. In general, the "long" guns are much easier to manage - they don't require as much effort to drive as a shorty. A well built shorty can shoot fast as all get out - but my experience is that you need to be a skilled driver to take advantage of it, otherwise it'll just be harder to shoot and progress with. The current US Champ shoots a 5" Trubor based gun built by David Cupp @ STI, and heavily smithed by the guys at the AMU - you can be competitive at the highest level with that type of setup. In fact, I'm moving to a similar setup for next year myself.

As far as caliber, I'd suggest going with a common one - don't bother with 9x21 or 9x23 (though both can be used quite successfully). The main choice here is brass cost vs. flexibility in the load recipes and feels. 9x19 at Major is somewhat limited in terms of what will work and make Major safely, whereas .38 Super and Supercomp have more case capacity and therefore more options. In the end, either one can be run successfully. My personal preference is .38 Supercomp. I have to pick brass - something I've been doing for many years - however, I feel that I have a softer, smoother shooting load than the 9 Major guns I've shot, and I'm running a lower pressure load that still works the gun quite adequately.

You can buy an STI Trubor (have it worked over by a major smith - buy through Brazos or Dawson and have them tune it), and do just fine. Tack on $300 for your rig, $500-700 for mags, and then whatever you need to get to loading, and you're there. A used gun is also an option - be careful, and have it checked out by a knowledgeable smith or shooter before buying.

I also agree with trying out as many guns locally as possible, to get a feel for what you like, etc...

[shooterbenedetto]

Going cheap will cost you more in the long run!! Buy a new gun STI and never look back.

reliability is what counts. You will hate it when you are in the zone and all of a sudden the gun dont work?

It takes the fun out of it.

[Vulture]

Open gun and budget don't go together very well. If i were you i would shoot another year of single stack or whatever you are shooting now. Then after you have gained a little more experience, wisdom or gray hair, (your choice) you can make an informed decision. An open gun is like goin' steady with your girl, it's a serious commitment. You will have to reload and i'm talking 650 or 1050 because you will shoot lots. And thats another thing, practice. You will do more of that too because at first you will say "i'm just having fun so a D is ok", Then its like, "well maybe I'd like to make C this year and B next year." Every letter carries a larger commitment. Your wife will ask why your ordering bullets again. You wont mind shooting in the rain. You will skip football to go shoot and wont mind missing it. You will con your children into sorting your brass for a dollar a thousand. If you have teenage kids you will even get them to reload for you, but you will only do that once. You will have a sore back from scrounging brass and will know what caliber it is from 10 paces away. You will wear your ear muffs into the gas station and not realize it until you get home and look in the mirror and then figure out why everyone was looking at you so funny. And people will keep asking you what your smiling about.

Are you ready for that kind of commitment?

[JFD]

Limited funds and an Open gun is not a good combination. Open guns are best suited for those with a lot of disposable income.

Think about shooting Limited. Lots of options for guns with a variety of price tags.

[38supPat]

Open guns are pretty much the same as they were in 1993, same frames, same optics, same hybrid comped barrels. you pay a bit more for an open gun (STI at Dawson precision shows a tru-bore Open ar $2400 and an Edge limited at $1700), for the extra $700 you get a comp ($200) a scope mount ($100-150) and a C-more ($209) + tuning. And you won't have to worry about an arms race.

I've always shot Open on a budget and done quite well.

[lcs]

I'm new to the sport (4 months)and shooting single stack and love it. Thinking about an open gun.

Question 1: Should I wait awhile before I get into the open guns?

Question 2: If I were to get an open gun, what should I buy. I have limited funds and really wonder if I would even know the difference between a 2K gun and a 5k gun. Would I?

Thanks for any help!!!!!!!!!!

You are getting some great advise here on the forum; however, I had 5 months in the sport and decided Open was where I wanted to be. If you find the right gun, or the right smith to build you a low end open gun (by low end I mean "minus the cool looks stuff") you will love it. The BIG thing is realibility with an open gun. Open guns are high end race cars--they need more TLC and upkeep. I lucked out and found a smith to build my first open in 9 major (There are more than enough powder selections to make major easily) and brass is "cheaper" than 38SC. I personally hate bending over for what seems like hours at matches picking up brass. Most major matches are "lost brass" matches anyway.

If you get a good "mentor" and start picking up parts here and there , you can have a really nice open gun for a resonable price.

Come on over to the "dark side" Go for it!

[CenTX]

This is my experience and thoughts, your results may vary and as always buyer beware.

If you watch the USPSA and Enos classifieds you will see a lot of used Open guns. They include guns from top name smiths and builders you never hear off to stock factory Open guns like the Trubore. When it gets cold up north and that nasty white stuff starts building up a lot of people can't or don't shoot and there are some great deals. Both of the used Open guns I have bought have been great guns. Plus you can get the reloading data and info like what pound recoil spring to run.

The first one was an SV with over 20,000 rounds through it. It was very loose, but grouped good and was very reliable. All I had to buy was a holster rig. For $1800 this is what I got: a 170 mm mags, 4 - 140 mm mags, approx 2K - 3K used brass, approx 300 loaded rounds, 38 super dies, loading data, a couple hunded bullets, and half a pound or so of powder. Sold this gun to shoot limited.

When I recently decided to shoot Open again I found a almost new STI Open gun from a major smith with 8 mags for $2200. I basically stole this gun, but I paid what he was asking in the classifieds. Had some feeding problems, changed the recoil spring and it has been 100% reliable for over 1500 rounds now.

As with buying anything used there is risk involved, but if you are patient and careful, you can get a really good gun and save some money. If someone local is selling it, thats great, you can test drive it before you buy. If it's not local often the seller will give you a couple of days to check it out. If you have a smith that works on Open guns, having it checked out is a good idea. Some questions you should ask:

1. Does it run? If the gun does not function reliably you may in for a lot of frustration and grief. Many function problems are caused by the mags.Hopefully the gun comes with mags.

2. Does it group? The gun must be reasonably accurate.

3. How many rounds through it? Sorry, I don't know how many would be too many.

4. Why are you selling? If they are getting out of shooting or changing classes, ask if they have anything else that goes with the gun. You just might get some freebies thrown in if you ask.

I have also looked at the older ads and if I found something that looked interesting that was not marked "SOLD" or "SPF", I emailed to see if they still had it for sale. Bought a nice Edge that way and he lowered the price without my even asking.

As far as short or long pistol, if you get a shorty/minigun you might want to consider one built on a full size frame and recoil sytem. I think they are easier to shoot and maintain than a gun built on a commander size frame and recoil system.

Good luck.

[BSeevers]

Just check "Open" division at your next match and you are in for nothing.

I have seen used CZ/EAA 9x21's for $700(If its a good gun you could get it rechambered for a 23mm long cartridge) and Para's with gear for $1200 and usually 2K will get you a complete used STI and gear. Be careful about what you are buying and hanging around the good Open shooters will help you a lot

[38superman]

The best advice I can give you is this:

Budget and Open division seldom belong in the same sentence together.

However, there is a way.

Check out SJC Customs.

They build a very nice open gun on the Glock platform.

I would be considerably cheaper than the traditional open gun.

I don't own one, but by all accounts, they build a very good competition grade gun and have won some matches in the hands of some well known competitors.

Should be worth taking a look.

I'm not sure but I think you can check out their work at glockjockey.com

Tony

Edited October 12, 2007 by 38superman

[Jaxshooter]

To answer your question. If you get an open gun built by any of the reputable gunsmiths on this forum it will run or they will make it run. You do not get any "better" gun for $5000.00 than you do for $3500.00. It may have more bells and whistles but it won't be anymore accurate or reliable. Don't let somebody tell you that Joe builds a better gun than John that is why Joe's gun is $5000 and Johns gun is only $3500.

[DonT]

I'm new to the sport (4 months)and shooting single stack and love it. Thinking about an open gun.

Question 1: Should I wait awhile before I get into the open guns?

Question 2: If I were to get an open gun, what should I buy. I have limited funds and really wonder if I would even know the difference between a 2K gun and a 5k gun. Would I?

Thanks for any help!!!!!!!!!!

This was a good question and you've gotten a lot of good answers. I am currently going through this so maybe I could shed some light on the costs. I got into this sport at a later age than most. So I figured I don't have as much time to enjoy and/or accumulate all the goodies. I was not on a budget and I didn't spend a lot of time searching for bargains. So the costs that I give are probably on the high end of the spectrum.

Answer question 1: If you love the sport so far and you're watching the guys from the dark side and thinking that you might like to go there, then go for it. You only live once. Ask some of the guys if you could shoot their blaster. I'm sure they wouldn't mind.

Answer question 2: The gun is only part of the equation. It's all the other stuff that you will need/want. You don't have to spend 5K to get a dependable gun. Here is an example of what I have spent to date to start shooting open from L-10 and production. And I don't even have my gun yet. It's still being built.

SV (gunbuilder.com 1000.00 down, 3725.00 due when finished)___________________________________________ 4725.00

6 SV mag tubes from SSI__________________________________________________________________________ 360.00

6 Grams springs, followers, and Arredondo lim 10 inserts (Shooters Connection)_____________________________ 159.00

Another Gugas holster (had to buy from Canada, SSI out of stock)________________________________________ 250.00

Another cr speed belt and cr mag pouches (Shooters Connection)_________________________________________ 210.00

Another range bag and mag cleaning brush ( Midway USA, open gun has to have it's own range bag )____ 107.00

Dillon die set, conv kit, and quick change for 550_______________________________________________________ 198.00

5000 Starline Nickel 38 super comp brass (Midway USA, I like nickel, easy to find on ground)___________________ 869.00

8000 Zero 125gr hp (MPS company)_________________________________________________________________ 654.00

10000 Fed small rifle primers (locally)________________________________________________________________ 265.00

24lbs. VV3n38 (in one pound containers )_________________________________________________________ 560.00

_________

Total 8357.00

OK. I've gotta wrap this up now before my wife looks over my shoulder Hope this helps

DonT

[Kingman]

Ouch,

Open can be done on a budget, thats why a lot of us are shooting 9's.

Furhter if you find a used gun at a good price it is even easier.

[JoDaSMor]

New to Open Division as well. Used SPS Frame, Sleeved Barrel and Slide while ALL other parts were from top U.S. brands. With complete rig and 3 x 140mms & 2 x 170mms, to date, I'm into U$D5,000 already. I agree that the words "budget and open" don't go together but have some ways to economize.

I agree with Vulture re commitment if you ever decide to proceed to the dark side.

Good luck!

[Albertl35]

Hmm, for me it's more fun than playing golf...;-)

I bought a Bedell Shorty 38 SC after only doing it for a a few months. It is expensive especially if you take into account what else you need to get. Adding a few "tuned" magazines will set you back a song. When I ordered the Bedell, I also ordered a SJC Custom 9mm open built on a Glock 17. It's much cheaper to shoot and maintain.

[racerba]

How much needed to spend t shoot open?

Do you have a first born?

[scirocco38s]

If you look around, you can pick up a used but still better than you open gun for under 2k, sometimes with mags (2or3 140's and a 170. ) . If it is from someone getting out of open or out of the sport alltogether, you may can get the gun, mags shooting gear and loading stuff. Some times they throw in ammo thats loaded as well as brass, which is going to help you out tremendously. My first open gun was purchase just that way and I have never regretted it. It is an investment, but you wont be sorry for it. You will spend as much over the next 2 years in bullets, powder, primer, and brass as you did the gun if you apply yourself. But thats a good thing also as you practice more and shoot more, your scores will go up and you will start winning your class at the local matches and then the state and areas, all good things. If you can afford a top tier gun, then thats great also, but there are alot of guns out there that are beggin to be shot and will serve you well. When you feel the gun is holding you back, Buy a newer one with the features you want and sell that one to another new open shooter. Be prepared as some parts will break, but its to be expected from a device that is being run at the edge of its performance envelope. I moved to open in 2002 and will probably shoot open 80% of the time if I have the choice. I have tried 38s, 38sc,tj and major 9. I have been able to get all of them to run reliably and make the gun perform the way I wanted it to and havent spent a fortune on any of it. But I have spent a fortune on ammo.

[rgkeller]

I'm new to the sport (4 months)and shooting single stack and love it. Thinking about an open gun.

Question 1: Should I wait awhile before I get into the open guns?

Question 2: If I were to get an open gun, what should I buy. I have limited funds and really wonder if I would even know the difference between a 2K gun and a 5k gun. Would I?

Thanks for any help!!!!!!!!!!

You will be in for around $3500 at the cheapest to "try" Open with a used pistol, used mags, holster set up, and reloading machine. I would go 9MM major which will cost you about 13 cents a round. If you decide Open is not for you, you will get $2500 or so back out.

If your tryout leaves you wanting to make shooting USPSA Open a big part of your life, you should get a top end pistol ($5000) made for you. You can change to 38Super(comp) or stick with 9MM major. With the latter, your shooting will be cheaper but your smith choices will be more limited. You will also need a Dillon 650 or 1050 if you didn't go that way out of the box.

I did the above and could not be happier. The high end pistol is worth every penny and makes moving into the higher reaches of achievement easier. Over the pistol's life, I figure it costs $1000-1500 a year. Unfortunately, no smith I know takes payments that way.

[Mark K]

I read this thread with interest, because someday I think I want an open gun. I am really new - 3 matches only, but generally am a tech nut with all my hobbies.

However, I want to add two comments to think about, or for others to comment on:

1) I was in the Army with the guy that owns the local indoor range/gun store. He is a former Grand Master. He knows that I will buy what he tells me to, i.e. he could make $$ on me. But when I started down this road, on equipment he told me "don't go buying more equipment until you can honestly say that the equipment is holding you back". By that he meant big $$. A CR Speed Belt, OK. Holster, OK. Mag holders, OK. Buy the best you can afford, because good stuff is easier to sell later if you need to. But don't go out and spending 4 figures until the above take effect, AND you have really educated yourself on the subject. I this advice has served me well over the last couple of months.

2) I noticed that no one ask a big question - do you want to just shoot or really compete? By that I mean, will you take the time to really learn the new gun, load and shoot the rounds need to advance, etc or do would you be satisfied with having a decent Open gun and have fun shooting it in matches.

Just some thoughts.

Mark