glock10mmman Posted August 22, 2007 Share Posted August 22, 2007 I am really wanting to get a 1911 doublestack, but only have about a grand to play around with. Im really looking hard at the para p-16 limited. Ive found new ones in the 850-900 dollar range stock with two mags. Found a Todd Jarret model for 1200. Ive heard some bad things about them from local shooters and they are just telling me to save my money and buy an STI. With mags its probably going to run in the 2000 range and that will take several months to save that so the para's price seems to fit the bill. So what do you folks think about them? g10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Keen Posted August 22, 2007 Share Posted August 22, 2007 Save some money up ........ you'll be glad you did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viggen Posted August 22, 2007 Share Posted August 22, 2007 Patience and a little savings will benefit you a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JThompson Posted August 22, 2007 Share Posted August 22, 2007 Save some money up ........ you'll be glad you did. +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSMITH Posted August 22, 2007 Share Posted August 22, 2007 They range from really bad to really good. Vintage has a lot to do with it. Avoid the external extractor models, they are all a pain. If you can find an early one they were built well, accurate, reliable and just all around good guns. I haven't seen any of them made in the last 3 or 4 years that I would own... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtypool40 Posted August 22, 2007 Share Posted August 22, 2007 They take a lot of work to get up to an acceptable baseline standard, they are as heavy as boat anchors, you're limited in options, they are cast and shaped like a 2x4. Other than that, they are ok. Save up buy a used S_I with mags in the $1500 range Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uscbigdawg Posted August 22, 2007 Share Posted August 22, 2007 2 camps. Save the money and buy an Edge.... Or...they seem to work for that Todd Jarrett guy. Rich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JakeMartens Posted August 22, 2007 Share Posted August 22, 2007 I bought a Para 16-40 Limited Covert Model last year with a 35%off coupon I picked up off a prize table. I have had a trigger job, added a Dawson Ice Magwell and now have over 3000 rounds without a single malfunction. I have 5 mags, 2 that came with it and 3 from Dawson. I use the Para springs and Dawson base pads and get 21 rounds in the three from DP, and 19 in the mags that came with it. I have shot all factory ammo, Federal American Eagle 165gr and Wolf brass cased 180 gr with no problems. I have shot 1 inch 5 shot groups at 20 yards with it, there is a little play in the slide and frame, not much. Yes in the long run you will probably want to get something else. You can dump a bunch of money into one buy getting a new slide and barrel etc, but it is still going to be a Para. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDean Posted August 22, 2007 Share Posted August 22, 2007 I've had a P14 for many years, it works evertime I pull the trigger..... Not a precision piece of machinery, but will certainly put holes in whatever you point it at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catfish Posted August 22, 2007 Share Posted August 22, 2007 I have a bud who owns one of the TJ Paras. His thoughts are that the gun itself as set up from Para runs like a champ - but you're limited to the Para mags, which I think (and I may be wrong) he can only fit 16-17 rounds in them. With Dawson base pads, which pushes the mag count up to an acceptable level, the mags become a jam-O-matic. So far he hasn't been able to figure out a solution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Cheely Posted August 22, 2007 Share Posted August 22, 2007 I heard TJ's gun wouldn't run at SS Nats...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
get2now Posted August 22, 2007 Share Posted August 22, 2007 IMO if you leave it stock and shoot factory ammo it'll probably work fine for you enough years that if you finally decide you have to have a S_I you will have saved up enough in the meantime to get one. I had a Para 45 converted to an open division 38 super about six years ago and have never had a problem with it. Then I had another 45 converted to a limited .40 about 2 years ago. I haven't shot that one very much but what I did shoot of it I didn't have any problems with that one either. A good gunsmith is what's really important though. I have two STI's and two Para's but I'd rather shoot my Para's. I like a heavier gun, so that's just my preference. YMMV Gary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wide45 Posted August 22, 2007 Share Posted August 22, 2007 (edited) They range from really bad to really good. Vintage has a lot to do with it. Avoid the external extractor models, they are all a pain. If you can find an early one they were built well, accurate, reliable and just all around good guns. I haven't seen any of them made in the last 3 or 4 years that I would own... I would not say "really good", but I agree with HSMITH. Power extractor is somethin you don't want. I remember P-16's from around '94-'95 did not run out of the box. Para was shoving them out the door as fast as possible, to beat the ban. I expect those guns have been fixed by now. I have been running a Para .40 limited gun for something like 7 years. They are not sophisticated, and can be made to work well, but if you start from a new gun, STI is a better way to go. Finding a used gun set up with good parts, and a known history of reliability, is going to be the best deal. Edited August 22, 2007 by wide45 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uscbigdawg Posted August 22, 2007 Share Posted August 22, 2007 2 camps. Save the money and buy an Edge.... Or...they seem to work for that Todd Jarrett guy. Rich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tgibson Posted August 22, 2007 Share Posted August 22, 2007 I have a P16 in stainless, and have contemplated getting a Brazos or Edge limited gun for the last year. I just can't bring myself to do it. I love that Para. I have a great load worked out and it is a very soft shooting gun. It came from the factory with a great trigger. If someone wanted to give me $1500 for it, I would think about it. I wouldn't let it go for $1000. Just food for thought. TG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckS Posted August 22, 2007 Share Posted August 22, 2007 I have a bud who owns one of the TJ Paras. His thoughts are that the gun itself as set up from Para runs like a champ - but you're limited to the Para mags, which I think (and I may be wrong) he can only fit 16-17 rounds in them. With Dawson base pads, which pushes the mag count up to an acceptable level, the mags become a jam-O-matic. So far he hasn't been able to figure out a solution. I have been using para tubes in .40 for many years. I can get 20 reloadable or 21 rounds tight with dawson pads. 2 are old blued tubes, one nickel and 5 are tubes that had that thick black paint stripped and were hardchromed. That paint was the big issue in functionality. STI used to make "for para" tubes but they discontinued them and they are hard to find. I have heard that there are some modified mag catches available that will allow the use of "for STI" STI tubes. They can work / be made to work. I have also seen STI mags jamb. Hell, even glock mags! Later, Chuck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Religious Shooter Posted August 22, 2007 Share Posted August 22, 2007 I think a good chunk of 1911's need tuning. I ran a P14/P16 for years. Out the box the P14 ran like a champ. The P16 needed long loaded rounds (but a lot of 1911's need that) but ran well. I had to install another extractor after about 5000 rounds and the bushing flew off after ??? rounds. But no biggee. About 4 years ago I bought a factory SVI for about $2500 out the door (CA legal model). The hammer followed ---- $2500 and the hammer follows!!!! I didn't exactly get any "love" from SVI either when I emailed them about it. And all honesty... IMHO performance wise the practical difference between the two gun types is almost nil. Some super Jedi will tell you that they can feel the difference in the slide's smoothness... it's lighter frame makes them .01 secs faster on transitions... bla bla bla... Give them a 100% working Para and a 100% working SV/TI and you could somehow purge them of the negative prejudices they have towards the Para and I'll be ya that over a number of matches their performance would be within a hair's width of one another. If you get either one to work at 100% the only difference in performance is in the ego/mind of the shooter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFD Posted August 22, 2007 Share Posted August 22, 2007 I can't comment on the newer external extractor versions, but my older P16-40 LTD has been flawless. 21+1 with little effort (used to be NO effort), accurate, and ran 40K rounds on the original parts before I got it and switched to the same parts I put into all my 1911s. I'm getting close to 100K rounds through this thing and wouldn't trade it for anything else out there. Other than I hate Para's latest choice of springs, I've got 16 mags that have never given me a problem. It takes no more effort to set up a Para than a S_I for Limited. If your choice is a light gun, then perhaps a Para isn't the best choice though. Todd Jarrett would be the best proof that a Para isn't going to hold you back. I wouldn't be afraid to look locally for a used gun either. Lots of folks at matches have solid guns for sale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vulture Posted August 22, 2007 Share Posted August 22, 2007 I bought the 16-40J model late last year and have used it ever since. I have never had one single problem with it and it is bone stock. I put Wolff +10% springs in the mags and if i cut off one coil i get 20 rounds, if i don't cut off a coil i get 19 with Dawson base pads. Everyone so far on this thread has said "I heard about, or I know a guy, or they just suck." Well I own one and have put 10,000 rounds through it this year and have never had a jam or failure to feed or any problem with a power extractor. While Edges need to go to the smith to be tuned up before they run, I have run my J model straight from the box with ammo that i reloaded (180 zero 4.8 gr TG). I just slather it up with slide glide and clean it every thousand rounds whether it needs it or not. Is it as good as a custom gun? Obviously not, but I think it is the best entry level gun for Limited or limited 10 there is in a single action. Once you know this is a sport you want to stick with you can upgrade after a couple of years if you want. I have been looking lovingly at one of those Spitfires Chuck has at Shooters Connection, but until i can afford it i have no problems using the Jarret model Para and will keep it even if i get something else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orangeman711 Posted August 22, 2007 Share Posted August 22, 2007 I've got a P-14 I've ran more than 60K rounds thru, not a whisper of a problem. Switched to a Dawson-Jarrett P-16 due to increased mag. capacity( 20 & 21 rds) still shooting the hell out of it after 50K rounds, not a whisper of a problem. Do I like my Para's? Hell no I love um. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RPMartin Posted August 22, 2007 Share Posted August 22, 2007 I have a Para 16-40LDA I bought for production/L10/Limited. I love it, the double action trigger is smooth, it doesn't hiccup or jam. I have had no malfunctions with the Para gun. Mags are a different story, The para mags are prone to stoppage if there is any dust in the air. I just purchased som Mec-gar mags and we will see how they perform. I love the pistol! RPM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe4d Posted August 22, 2007 Share Posted August 22, 2007 Been running a 1994 vintage Para 1640 for many many moons, Mostly in IDPA and Limited 10. My full cap mags which honestly I havent run at full cap alot but like others have said, factory follower Wolff +10% springs and either dawson or Para +2 pads hold 19 rounds. The only out of the box issue I had was the bushing. This year I finally replaced the barrel as the original one was wore out. My gun was originally in a Milspec version and I built into a limited gun my self, Those guns can be found for alot less than 8 but by the time you get sights installed better off buying the Limited. Add a dawson magwell and some pads and go shoot it. Or you could spend double on a STI but still have to take it back and forth to the factory or smith to get it to run. Which for some reason is perfectly acceptable for STI fans. But a Para has an issue and it gets labeled as junk and a waste of money. go figure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No.343 Posted August 22, 2007 Share Posted August 22, 2007 If you buy a Para that runs well and never shoot a different gun you will probably be happy. I bought a Para despite the advice of some folks that I should save and buy the STI. Then Kurt Miller moved into town and I tried his 6" Fat Free. I really like my 6" Fat Free. I wish I had waited, but at least my son likes the Para. He keeps talking some nonsense about it being his gun now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VeryBadshot Posted August 22, 2007 Share Posted August 22, 2007 Ahh...new shooter question. Whats a "FATFREE"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No.343 Posted August 22, 2007 Share Posted August 22, 2007 Short answer: It's an STI with a short dustcover and a lightned 6" slide. It is made by Benny Hill at Triangle Shooting Sports. Lots of info about them on this forum. If you shoot one you will want one. If you are even considering buying a stock STI, then you really should talk to Benny before buying. He will treat you right. Ahh...new shooter question. Whats a "FATFREE"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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