cking Posted March 23, 2007 Share Posted March 23, 2007 Good friend of mine, so this is a first hand report. Tuesday morning 7am California. Nice fancy neighborhood. 1/2 to 1 million dollars homes gated community. Wife is up fixing breakfast and getting the 12 yearold daughter ready for school. Husband is upstairs still asleep. He is a successful computer nerd. Louding pounding on door, startling everyone. Wife answers. Finds 7 armed, flak vested guns drawn men, two SUV's blocking driveway and men spreading around the house. They ask for who she is then ask for her husband. Will use John Doe here to protect innocent. We need to speak to your husband. Wife responds I'll get him, he is still asleep. John gets dressed comes down stairs steps outside the house. Are you john doe, yes I'am can I help you. We would like to step inside and talk with you. John, no you may not step inside, and why are you here with guns drawn. Sir we would like to step inside and speak with you. John you may not step inside I have my family inside and your presences with these gun drawn is intimidating. Sir we have warrant, may I see the warrant. Sure enough it is a warrant to search the premise for all records and computer files and seize them for upto 120 days. Again we would like to step inside and talk with you, John OK, but can you put the guns away, no sir. John responds I will talk with you in my office and not in front of the family. The wife and daughter are seated on the soafa with two officers with AR and headsets guarding them. While they are talking to John, the wife says I like to get dressed, response no mam. Wife gets peeved, I'm going upstairs to get dressed and proceeds to get up and go upstairs. Officers follows and talks to head set, "wife coming upstairs to get dressed and follows her". As they approach bedroom door the officer stops her, opens the door himself scans the room, calls for backup and does a search of bedroom, then they allow her in and maintain eye contact the whole time she dresses. Meanwhile daughter is still on sofa and guarded. Turns out john had been selling some old vinyl records on ebay and some one had tried to scam him with the old send you a check too big, just send me the records and money order for the balance. Turns out the check was drawn on valid account but a stop payment had been put on it. Joe paid little attention to scam and forgot about. We'll it turns out somebody else had been scammed for 50,000 by the guy. Homeland security, FBI, and who knows who else started investigating it because it was linked to a Russian laundry scam. They had investigate John and one inch thick file on him. John shows them all his email with the scammer and offers to help, they asked him to recontact the scammer. They leave business cards, emails, cell numbers etc. Finally a code 4 is passed to crew and all guns are holstered. Now you can imagine the response from neighbors. They chinese folks next door won't even make eye contact any more. A week later John goes to the police dept to get a copy of warrant that shows no action taken. Police say they can't help because FBI did it. FBI says see your local police. Seven men travel over 500 miles, stayed overnight in prep for the 7am raid. I'm from Goverment and I'm here to HELP!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tpcdvc Posted March 23, 2007 Share Posted March 23, 2007 Good friend of mine, so this is a first hand report. Tuesday morning 7am California. Nice fancy neighborhood. 1/2 to 1 million dollars homes gated community. Wife is up fixing breakfast and getting the 12 yearold daughter ready for school. Husband is upstairs still asleep. He is a successful computer nerd. Louding pounding on door, startling everyone. Wife answers. Finds 7 armed, flak vested guns drawn men, two SUV's blocking driveway and men spreading around the house. They ask for who she is then ask for her husband. Will use John Doe here to protect innocent. We need to speak to your husband. Wife responds I'll get him, he is still asleep. John gets dressed comes down stairs steps outside the house. Are you john doe, yes I'am can I help you. We would like to step inside and talk with you. John, no you may not step inside, and why are you here with guns drawn. Sir we would like to step inside and speak with you. John you may not step inside I have my family inside and your presences with these gun drawn is intimidating. Sir we have warrant, may I see the warrant. Sure enough it is a warrant to search the premise for all records and computer files and seize them for upto 120 days. Again we would like to step inside and talk with you, John OK, but can you put the guns away, no sir. John responds I will talk with you in my office and not in front of the family. The wife and daughter are seated on the soafa with two officers with AR and headsets guarding them. While they are talking to John, the wife says I like to get dressed, response no mam. Wife gets peeved, I'm going upstairs to get dressed and proceeds to get up and go upstairs. Officers follows and talks to head set, "wife coming upstairs to get dressed and follows her". As they approach bedroom door the officer stops her, opens the door himself scans the room, calls for backup and does a search of bedroom, then they allow her in and maintain eye contact the whole time she dresses. Meanwhile daughter is still on sofa and guarded. Turns out john had been selling some old vinyl records on ebay and some one had tried to scam him with the old send you a check too big, just send me the records and money order for the balance. Turns out the check was drawn on valid account but a stop payment had been put on it. Joe paid little attention to scam and forgot about. We'll it turns out somebody else had been scammed for 50,000 by the guy. Homeland security, FBI, and who knows who else started investigating it because it was linked to a Russian laundry scam. They had investigate John and one inch thick file on him. John shows them all his email with the scammer and offers to help, they asked him to recontact the scammer. They leave business cards, emails, cell numbers etc. Finally a code 4 is passed to crew and all guns are holstered. Now you can imagine the response from neighbors. They chinese folks next door won't even make eye contact any more. A week later John goes to the police dept to get a copy of warrant that shows no action taken. Police say they can't help because FBI did it. FBI says see your local police. Seven men travel over 500 miles, stayed overnight in prep for the 7am raid. I'm from Goverment and I'm here to HELP!!!!!!!!! That is a perfect example of why the 2nd amendment is so important! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtypool40 Posted March 23, 2007 Share Posted March 23, 2007 I hate to state the obvious, esp in our "jackpot litigation" society, but he's not suing them why?? Don't give me any "justified crap" no jury on this planet would see that as justified. I am VERY pro-LE but adamantly anti-trampling jack booted thugs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sturmruger Posted March 23, 2007 Share Posted March 23, 2007 That is one of the scariest thing I have ever read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p99shooter Posted March 23, 2007 Share Posted March 23, 2007 I am glad nobody was hurt. It could have easily gone very bad, very quickly, like it did for Donald Scott and Kathryn Johnson. I hope your friend can explain what happened to his neighboors, and that they understand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nemo Posted March 23, 2007 Share Posted March 23, 2007 Screw the neighbors, let them think whatever they want. If he has a good one, that one will come and ask if everything is alright. Have you thought that maybe many of us would have gotten very killed in a situation like that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiG Lady Posted March 23, 2007 Share Posted March 23, 2007 What a disgusting and disturbing story...!!!!! Made me sick to my stomach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cking Posted March 23, 2007 Author Share Posted March 23, 2007 He is going to wait 90 days and then use freedom of infomation act to get some kind of documents that says basically sorry we goofed. Then he plans on posting it in the club house so neighbors can see that goverment isn't always right. They also knew all about his registered firearms, CA you know. Kept asking do you have any firearms about. John replied in the safe. Sad part is that the Goverment should have to issue an apology, maybe even publish it in local papers, saying they were wrong. All the agencies involved denied having any responsibility to issue a no result found statement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigDave Posted March 23, 2007 Share Posted March 23, 2007 What a disgusting and disturbing story...!!!!! Made me sick to my stomach. TIA - This is America Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtypool40 Posted March 23, 2007 Share Posted March 23, 2007 yeah I got a buddy who lives in a communist state and they just outlawed the guns he already has! He has x amount of days to move them out of county or TURN THEM IN TO BE DESTROYED. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AikiDale Posted March 23, 2007 Share Posted March 23, 2007 I'd offer to store them for him but I'm too afraid of what my freely elected democratic government might do to me if I did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiG Lady Posted March 23, 2007 Share Posted March 23, 2007 What Dale said...! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ima45dv8 Posted March 24, 2007 Share Posted March 24, 2007 I am VERY pro-LE but adamantly anti-trampling jack booted thugs. Thanks, DP. I was searching for the words when I saw yours. That covers how I feel. And to Nemo, that's a damn scary thing. I've been visiting with some members of the local sheriff's department recently (informal and very friendly) and I was at a loss of words when they started talking about home invasions. They pretty much advocated the idea of sending the miscreants off to the Happy Hunting Ground, but waffled a bit by saying, "...unless of course, they are police officers." Just how the hell would I know THAT in time??!!?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dajarrel Posted March 24, 2007 Share Posted March 24, 2007 I left this thread and had to come back to it. The more I think about it, the more it burns me up. The investigation was probably a legitimate one. I won't fault them for that. But there is no reason in the world for the tactics used. A couple of agents in suits could have knocked on the door with backups waiting in the wings and probably gotten a whole lot more information faster and not made such asses of themselves...... I better shut up before I mess up. dj Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interceptor Posted March 24, 2007 Share Posted March 24, 2007 It's very easy to judge when seeing something from one side and after the fact. To get an understanding of why the officer's (agents) did what they did, you would have to know what they KNEW leading up to the incident. You could list just as many stories indicating that officer's were assaulted or killed by "nice" people who wouldn't have hurt anyone. Not condoning anything, just trying to get people to think. I am a police officer and deal with this kind of criticism constantly, I have a thick skin, PM me if you want to discuss it. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walangkatapat Posted March 24, 2007 Share Posted March 24, 2007 yeah I got a buddy who lives in a communist state and they just outlawed the guns he already has! He has x amount of days to move them out of county or TURN THEM IN TO BE DESTROYED. That's why you never register your firearms, its always the first step to confiscation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ranger Posted March 24, 2007 Share Posted March 24, 2007 I live in GA - my wife and I both have CCWs. I bet that if this type of "investigation" was conducted at my home the LEO would know that there are CCW holders in the house and we would face drawn guns also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hitman Posted March 24, 2007 Share Posted March 24, 2007 Welcome to the Peoples Republic of California. I could say much about this from the cops side but I wont, all I can say is at least it wasent a no knock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Front Man Posted March 24, 2007 Share Posted March 24, 2007 Where was the Sheriff of that county? And what was he doing? I am going to stop, take a deep breath and try to relax. FM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.Hayden Posted March 24, 2007 Share Posted March 24, 2007 Welcome to the Peoples Republic of California. Not this time.. sounds like it was Feds... it could be anywhere.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vincent Posted March 24, 2007 Share Posted March 24, 2007 7 armed men, guns drawn, responding to an investigation about a guy selling old records on eBay. Ummm..... Errr..... Hmmmm..................... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Posted March 24, 2007 Share Posted March 24, 2007 So true about the feds. They can hassle anyone, anywhere, anytime. This is NOT a California specific thing and it could happen just like that anywhere and to anyone! It is very important that intel is good when you send an armed team in, or mistakes compound when coincidences stack up. This guy was lucky it went smoothly and they had some facts in hand besides their guns ;-/ Any one of us could be next, for any reason you can think up in your wildest dreams. Nothing can ever be weirder than what really happens in our world. This type of this is to be expected in a complicated world. The bummer is when the coincidences stack really badly in the worst possible direction for someone. Operative thing here is the word coincidence. The trick is to minimize exposure to un-controlled circumstances in your life. Accidents happen everywhere, just don't be everywhere and you will usually be less likely to accidently get in the way of something ;-) This doesn't help when your home address comes up on the radar as the random acts lotto winner for today, but at least it really is a fairly rare occurrence in this country. It's about as un-likely to happen to ya' as winning the lottery, so do you feel lucky? ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuckbradley Posted March 24, 2007 Share Posted March 24, 2007 Just my luck. I get my credit card number stolen and I do the research and give the police the inforamtion and they cant do anything. In another case I nailed a pro having thousands of dollars in merchandise shipped to their newly rented house to many different names. Handed all the info over to the authorities and nothing was done. And this guys sells old records and the swat team comes out. Guess its depends on who wants what done. I would hire a lawyer and go after the judge who signed the warrant. At least make his life hell so he calls those in that sold it to him and rakes them over the coals and maybe he wont be so eager to sign the next one and maybe even points a finger and lays blame somewhere else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkushner1 Posted March 24, 2007 Share Posted March 24, 2007 A close freind of mine is funding the national tour from liberal university to liberal university of a group of EX-plo and hamas members who have turned on and are now avidly against these organizations. Needless to say they receive (the whole group) at least one threat to life and limb a day (google Walid Shoebat). My friend was recently contacted by the head of the congressional panel in charge of Homeland Security to discuss many things including the recent request for student visa's by 25,000 (yes 25,000 students) Saudi students to enter our universities. This Congressman was concerned stating that it took 20 students to pull off 9/11. So even if 10% of the 25,000 visa requests turned out to be BG's, the problems could be bigger than we would care to imagine. My friend is pushing for either outright rejection to their Visa requests or a montioring system that would rival house arrest. I have a close freind of Arabic descent who would die for our great country to protect us, so I am not making any grossly stereo typical statement here - the situation above was clearly Govt paranoia and excess of the highest degree. My point is putting the crazy situations aside (as totally unacceptable), that this new era or style of war requires at least some gov't infringement on 1st ammendment rights, and therefore 1000% justification for the strengthening, not weakening of our second ammendment rights Thanks, Jkushner11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-ManBart Posted March 24, 2007 Share Posted March 24, 2007 To be blunt, what happened really sucks, and I feel bad for all the family members who had to deal with this. Words don't do it justice when you see bad guys trying to scam decent people and only the decent people get bothered. I hope to heck they're able to track down the initial scam artists. Sad part is most of them seem to be coming from Nigeria which makes doing anything about it almost impossible. Most clubs have LEOs that are active shooters. I would encourage anyone to find the one at your club that you know well enough to trust and run the scenario by them. See what they have to say about it and it might put things in a slightly different perspective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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