L10 - Keep It Or Lose It?

[mwx40x40]

Jack , I shot L-10 last season with my bull barrel Springfield Longslide Single Stack and enjoyed it very much. What I like about L-10 is that equip is more forgiving. You can shoot single or double stack, bull or bushing , kydex or race rig,magazine placement is liberal and be very competive with any mix of the above.

As others have mentioned if it went away where would they compete with existing equipment?

[uscbigdawg]

I voted to lose it, but to clarify I'd lose it as a seperate division. I'd like it move under Limited as a special category (i.e. like Senior, Lady, Junior). Of course I'm also for moving Singlestack to a category under Production and having categories return for military and law enforcement, but then I'm crazy!

Rich

[Lee Bell]

The first stage I shot in Limited with my SS .45 required 18 rounds from box A I've never seen that again, but it was a good clue that I wasn't shooting the right gun. At least the various brands of tupperware shooters can spend $100 or so on extensions and not be in bad shape (I'm guessing the XD and M&P have decent capacity with extensions).

Sorta, but not quite.

An XD40 with extensions can get to 15.

Since many arrays are 8 shots, that means that you still have to do a reload somewhere in that second array.

L10 is great for those who want to tweak out their gun a bit, but don't have that 16 minimum, 19-20 recommended that Limited calls for.

It's also a good stepping stone for those that start out in SSD, as I did.

Lee

[Jack Suber]

Jack , I shot L-10 last season with my bull barrel Springfield Longslide Single Stack and enjoyed it very much. What I like about L-10 is that equip is more forgiving. You can shoot single or double stack, bull or bushing , kydex or race rig,magazine placement is liberal and be very competive with any mix of the above.

As others have mentioned if it went away where would they compete with existing equipment?

Lee,

I shot L10 last season, too, and won the point series for A Class (4th overall). The primary reason I shot L10 was because my son started shooting and he got to use the big mags. But I still had fun. Actually, I started shooting IPSC with a Colt single stack .45 and ten round mags. I made "B" Class in Limited with it. Then I went to a fat body, made A Class, and planted my face in the A Class wall. I am still trying to decide whether or not to shoot L10 this year (son is shooting Open now so I got my LTD mags back). Like you said, I can shoot with kydex, my ghost holster, either way with L10. I would like to keep it.

[HSMITH]

I have shot L10 a total of one whole match and it was a classifier match, but it was different enough to be categorized differently IMO, WAY more equipment liberal than production or single stack and not even close to Limited on a lot of stages. The only downside to L10 IMO that I can see is that if I wanted to hide from moving up in Limited classification then L10 is the perfect place to go for a while and I see some guys do it. The positives outweigh the negatives 110-1 in my opinion, and for what it is worth. I voted to keep it.

[North]

L10 is the quickest way for new folks to play limited or open. They get to use the race equipment with thier 1911 that just about everyone seems to have. They get addicted the game like the rest of us, and the rest is history. If I wanted to shoot IDPA with my 1911 I would. I don't need USPSA mandating that I shoot IDPA/SS division or not be competitive with my 1911.

Edited February 14, 2007 by North

[Shawn Knight]

Not everyone is fortunate enough to have good gun laws. 10 rounds seems to be the maximum for most bad law states. Also maximum participation in our sport keeps it alive. Someone may have a full IDPA CDP rig but no other gear. with some extra mag pouches and 10 round mags for his single stack he is now in the game for much less than most other divisions.

[38superman]

I started out in L-10 and still shoot it quite a lot.

The fact that it is a gateway division makes it worth keeping, but there are a lot of other things going for it.

First of all, it is the poor man's open division.

Every other division is restrictive on the type of gun you can shoot.

L-10 can shoot single stack, single action, double action, plastic, 2011, major, minor, whatever.

Short of optics and a comp, name a gun you can't shoot in L-10.

Also worth mentioning is much more freedom in holster type and placement.

I'm convinced that occasionally running with 10 rounds helps my limited game.

It forces better focus on stage breakdown and I get more reload practice under match conditions.

It's also nice to come to the line without 80 rounds of ammo trying to drag my belt down to my knees.

I see no compelling reason to kill it but that doesn't seem to matter.

The controversy surrounding this division keeps going like the Energizer bunny.

Why?

I seriously doubt it has anything to do with administrative burden or participation.

The real problem is resentment due to having it forced upon us by Clinton era anti-gun legislation.

A lot of people view it as an uninvited guest that just won't leave the party.

That sentiment is understandable, but regardless of why we have it, the division pulls its weight.

I say we leave it alone and move on.

Tony

Edited February 14, 2007 by tlshores

[Jane]

Another "keep it" vote from California.

It's not true that you can't have mags with more than 10 rounds here.

Just that you have to have owned them before the ban.

So we do have people shooting limited matches with the "load on Friday and shoot until Sunday" guns.

Those of us who only own 10-round mags and can't purchase anything larger would probably not enjoy shooting head-to-head in one division...

Edited to add:

Or else let Production guns be eligible to shoot as major. I normally shoot a Glock 35 in L-10... and that's about as 'production' a gun as one will find...

Edited February 14, 2007 by Jane

[Aircooled6racer]

Hello: The more places to play the better! If I can use one pistol for more than one division it makes it more appealing to me. A single stack 1911 can shoot limited 10 and ss. My STI 2011 I can shoot limited and limited 10. What can better than that. I say keep it around for those that want to shoot it and I will be one of those. Thanks Eric

[Mick]

I shot the TEXAS LTD in 03 and 05 as L10 for adventure and to practice reloads.

I enjoyed L10 although I did shoot my SV hi-cap both years. I did get tired of cleaning mags though, about 3 to 4 per stage.

I say keep it. we're covered if Hillary becomes Queen or if any other states become truly socialist like California!

I even shot 126mm mags to give that flushmag appearance...

[Albert]

I can't imagine how fair it would be for those in the restricted states if it was gone. Until all the states in the union have no restrictions of mag capacity I think it needs to stay around.

[big_kahuna]

This Californian votes to keep L-10.

[uscbigdawg]

My vote has to remove L-10 as a seperate division and make it a tag category under Limited Division. Also, I'd move Singlestack as a category under Production (again not a seperate division).

And, I'd bring back special categories for Law Enforcement and Military.

One gun, 2 divisions and you can also shoot IDPA with it.

Rich

[ima45dv8]

My vote has to remove L-10 as a seperate division and make it a tag category under Limited Division.

I would support that as soon as we agree to only recognize the top overall finish in Open, just as we would only recognize the top overall finish in L10 (that's what we do with categories, right?).

And, I'd bring back special categories for Law Enforcement and Military.

In duty gear, absolutely.

[zhunter]

L-10 is here to stay.

Why worry about it?

SS will be here too in 2008, both will prosper.

Get over the one or the other thing.

I believe one of the candidates for President would like to see both of them survive. Right Gary?

[L9X25]

This post is merely an observation...

At the recent Florida Open there were 311 shooters that shot the match. Of those there were:

108 Open

107 Limited

60 Production

26 Limited 10

6 Revolver

4 Single Stack

If any group seemed to lack representation at this match it is Single Stack and that surprised me.

[Gregory_k]

not me.

[HI5-O]

From a 10 round for all state, keep the L-10.

Just thinking about the shooters from here who want to compete in the free states and cannot get regular capacity mags.

I don't/won't shoot L-10 if I can shoot Limited. For me, shooting L-10 in states that allow regular capacity mags is not worth it (cost of match fee; airfare; hotel; rental car) since I can do that here at home.

However, if I couldn't get me hands on regular capacity mags then I might consider L-10

Off I go and try snowboarding for the second time

barry

[zhunter]

This post is merely an observation...

At the recent Florida Open there were 311 shooters that shot the match. Of those there were:

108 Open

107 Limited

60 Production

26 Limited 10

6 Revolver

4 Single Stack

If any group seemed to lack representation at this match it is Single Stack and that surprised me.

Leo, I agree, as one of the SS shooters, i was expecting about 20 to be in SSD, that based on the participation in local matches of late. I think the difficulty of the Florida Open scared some SS shooters into Limited and Open.

[gino_aki]

Thread drift a bit to reiterate my take on divisional changes...though being from the state where you cannot legally start with eleven in the mag I voted to keep L-10.

Division MakeOver:

Two major Divisions: Unlimited and Limited.

Unlimited Division:

Current Open

Current Modified (IPSC)

Current Limited

Limited Division:

Open 10 (New)

Limited 10

Open Revolver (New)

Limited Revolver (Same as Revolver now)

Production

SS

I'm not sure what I'd rename the sub-divisions, somebody will think up appropriate ones.

The main difference between the two major divisions would be magazine/rounds loaded capacities which really only codifies the de-facto situation now. Law enforcement, Military, Senior et al would continue to be subcategories assigned to the participant rather than the equipment.

Might be a match admin and scoring nightmare, but sure gives a whole lotta choices to shoot in, maybe pull some old guns outa mothballs.

[zhunter]

Open 10 would allow some .45's to play open again.

[Lee Bell]

This post is merely an observation...

At the recent Florida Open there were 311 shooters that shot the match. Of those there were:

108 Open

107 Limited

60 Production

26 Limited 10

6 Revolver

4 Single Stack

If any group seemed to lack representation at this match it is Single Stack and that surprised me.

It doesn't surprise me. Single stack is a relatively new addition to the competitive lineup. Most good competitors had already found a division they like when Single Stack was inplemented as a provisional division. Many newer competitors started practical shooting for something to do with a gun originally purchased for personal defense that, lucky for all of us, wasn't getting any use for that purpose. Add all of that to the fact that Single Stack results are still not incorporated into the master data base, at least as far as I know, and the reason why there are only a few competitors in the division at a major tournament seems pretty obvious.

For now, I see Single Stack as an entry level division for those that own, and enjoy shooting 1911 style guns. It's not for everyone, but is quite appealing to the more traditional in the sport, people that grew up shooting Colt Government Model .45s and still love and respect them. A lot of peple in the division are relatively new and at least some, including me, don't participate in major matches because we just aren't ready for that quite yet. Give us a year or two as an official, non-provisional, division and we'll see what happens.

Lee

[zhunter]

Lee

I guess I am the opposite. I was a Limited shooter, and have moved down to shoot Single Stack. I like the gun, but also the need to get your hits, with only 8 shots, you cannot afford to miss and make-up shots with only 8. I think that is another turn off for many if the speed race that is USPSA. I also agree that the Provisional status has people waiting until it is "approved" and there are proper classifications.

I believe that by devoting my time to something I already love, I will be ahead of the curve when it becomes a recognized division.

It was a natural progression for me tho. I started hunting with a gun, then moved to only bowhunting. I started fishing (saltwater) with bait, now I only flyfish. And..... NOw I am a Single Stacker

Oh yeah, I was married, and now I'm not

[38superman]

This post is merely an observation...

At the recent Florida Open there were 311 shooters that shot the match. Of those there were:

108 Open

107 Limited

60 Production

26 Limited 10

6 Revolver

4 Single Stack

If any group seemed to lack representation at this match it is Single Stack and that surprised me.

Surprised?

Two things here.

1st -

10 stages, over 300 rounds = a match full of long field courses = High cap friendly.

Single Stack in Frostproof?

Only if you want to start each stage with mags on your belt, hip pocket, one under your cap and one between your teeth.

2nd -

There were more than 40 shooters in L10 last year.

I shot L10 and had one of my best matches of the year, 13th overall and 1st C.

No recognition of class winners, top 5 only.

This year I brought my limited gun,..... go figure.

Tls

Edited February 20, 2007 by tlshores