Forward Falling Poppers

[SA Friday]

One club here in Eastern CO uses forward falling poppers at their matches. They've changed over to them completely. My home club has terrible problems with wind pushing over the poppers, and the forward falling seem to be almost impervious to this. We've also seen they are more consistant when activating movers and very consistant when it comes to being knocked over by minor loads. Lastly, since they are tilted slightly forward there seems to be a lot less frag and rounds blasting up and out. It consistantly frags straight into the ground.

Does anyone else use forward falling poppers at their clubs? Being fairly new, I don't know if these are unique to our area. So, I thought I would check to see if anyone else is using them, and what they thought of them; the good and the bad.

Sorry, I don't have a diagram of the ones used here. They basically work off of a fall-away arm wedging the popper up about 6 inches up from the bottom of the popper plate. One of the local shooters makes the bases and mechanical workings, and then remounts the popper plates from the old rear falling rig to his new base.

Edited July 30, 2006 by SA Friday

[shred]

I like FFPs. Done right, as you say, they are pretty much impervious to wind, never need calibrating and can yank small airplanes out of the sky when used as activators.

Some people don't like them because you can't hammer them down and they are slower to react so they're more likely to mess with your head making you think you missed.

They can be more dangerous to reset for the unwary, and the ones that re-set when doubled should be repeatedly shot with slugs.

[Flyin40]

One of our local clubs has a range full of the forward falling poppers. They use both forward falling and regular poppers at the matches. I can remember a match early this yr that I thought the activator was a backward falling popper. I was wrong, I hammered it twice but the second shot did nothing but stand it back up before it finally fell.

Flyin

[Azone41]

FFP are cool but the works make them to heavy to carry around. A couple of years ago we changed our poppers so the popper is seperate from the base. We welded round stock to the botton of the popper (50 of them) then made the bases out of flat steel and angle iron. The bases weigh 12 pounds. We can now put 20 poppers in the trunk of a car. They are very steady in the wind ( Southern OK) and easy to move around. One day when there was no wind I set a couple very light and knocked them down with a 22. With the popper setting on the round stock there is no drag when you knock it over.

Edited July 30, 2006 by Azone41

[lynn jones]

FFP are cool but the works make them to heavy to carry around. A couple of years ago we changed our poppers so the popper is seperate from the base. We welded round stock to the botton of the popper (50 of them) then made the bases out of flat steel and angle iron. The bases weigh 12 pounds. We can now put 20 poppers in the trunk of a car. They are very steady in the wind ( Southern OK) and easy to move around. One day when there was no wind I set a couple very light and knocked them down with a 22. With the popper setting on the round stock there is no drag when you knock it over.

i don't know who made your ffps but ours are about the same weight as regular pps.

check this link out:

http://www.gunsteel.com/ipscpop.html

lynn

[MarkS_A18138]

this brings up a good question. Should a club buy them? Will we see more clubs moving in the direction of FFP's because of less bullet deflection! I like them and would love to replace all of our old PP with new FFP's. But a good point was brought up about not seeing them at a lot of big matches. I was told there will be a lot of them at the nationals this year! Is there a new movement toward them? I would like to know the Pro's and Con's!

[wide45]

I think it is wrong to mix popper designs at a match. All forward falling, or all conventional.

[Flyin40]

I shoot a match every month that has both. It really doesn't make a difference if you have both. When looking over a stage it is up to the shooter to figure out the poppers. The stage is shot the FFP I never even went up and looked at it, it was a close small stage.

Why do you feel only one kind should be used???

I just look at it as simple as this..........I glad just to have a match to go to, whatever is there I'm happy to shoot.

Flyin

[gino_aki]

The forward falling Poppers I made for our club work pretty well and are adjustable but took a bit of work to engineer. I haven't converted the US Poppers yet as that would involve moving the hinge point, besides if you can't knock over a US popper with minor loads...better check your loads. I'll see if I can get a pic up (gotta go back to the range to take some) if anyone wants to get some ideas on how to convert yours.

[mscott]

I see no problem mixing them at a match. Mixing them on a stage would be just plain evil. I think I like the FFP better than the ones that fall back. If nothing else it's a different type of target to see and learn.

[rishii]

I see no problem mixing them at a match. Mixing them on a stage would be just plain evil. I think I like the FFP better than the ones that fall back. If nothing else it's a different type of target to see and learn.

ok then, just call me evil

our range is windy. it can be so bad, that after you hit it, and the popper started to rock back, the wind would push the popper back up. it was so bad, we barely use the full sized poppers for years, until gino modified ours to fall foward.

my club often mixes FFP with standard USP on a stage, and it usually doesn't bother me, I mean if your waiting to watch the popper fall, your taking too long anyway.

Edited July 31, 2006 by rishii

[wide45]

Mixing the types is a head game.

A proper stage is about who shoots the best, not who screws up the least.

Every target we use, is the same as every other one that looks like it, except when you mix forward/conventional poppers.

I mean if your waiting to watch the popper fall, your taking too long anyway.

There are some who need to see the steel fall. It's where they are now. We need them. They are our future.

Edited July 31, 2006 by wide45

[Kory]

I can't remember ever hitting a forward falling popper and it not falling, I certainly cannot say the same for traditional poppers.

That said, I am much more accustomed to traditional poppers and I prefer for that reason only.

The FFP's I shoot have an "L" shaped braket on the rear of the popper target area about 1/2 way up. It is hinged where it connects to the target plate at the top of this L. It holds onto a vertical tab on the base, set: . _l activated: i_ (imagine the dot is the hinge).

[Jasonub]

in the philippines we use forward falling poppers almost exclusively.

About 95% of the time.

[gino_aki]

Here's some pics if you prop guys need ideas for FFP's. The bolt holding the popper is a3/8X4" UNF bolt because that's the most common thread pitch for the clevis yoke that forms the hinge. Other wise I would have used carriage bolts for more holding surface area. The large mounting bolt and the 3/8 bolt allow adjustability for terrain and weather conditions (wind). Letting the large mounting bolt protrude like it does keeps the popper from rocking back too far on the hit and then not falling.

[SA Friday]

Thanks everyone for the info. Keep it coming. The mechanism on the FFP's here are totally different, but very consistant and made by one of the local shooters (Keith, you da man). Basically, the plate is unbolted from the old rear falling and re-bolted to the new FF base he makes. Very convenient to convert over.

As a side note, The NM State sectional was last weekend, and they had one stage with forward and rear falling poppers in front of each other. Another stage had 4 white USP's with 2 USP's locked up and painted black as hard cover partially blocking 2 of the 4 white USP's. They also had plates designed differently than I've ever seen there too. It was a good learning experience and a good match having different steel to contend with.

[Gary Johnson]

Here's some pics if you prop guys need ideas for FFP's. The bolt holding the popper is a3/8X4" UNF bolt because that's the most common thread pitch for the clevis yoke that forms the hinge. Other wise I would have used carriage bolts for more holding surface area. The large mounting bolt and the 3/8 bolt allow adjustability for terrain and weather conditions (wind). Letting the large mounting bolt protrude like it does keeps the popper from rocking back too far on the hit and then not falling.

Great pix. That's similar to a conversion kit I'm desiging for some standard poppers.

[SA Friday]

Sorry it took so long to get these photo's on here, but this is the system we are using. They are extremely reliable. One of the local shooters makes the bases. As a 9mm minor shooter I am very grateful to him too. They consistantly fall every time with minor loads, and the wind doesn't knock them over.

[Skizeks]

FFP You either like thim or you don't. The first time I ever saw them was about four years ago at the single stack classic. They had one stage with all steel on it, US poppers, Peper popers, plates, I thought it was an OK stage. It also had a couple of FFP on it, I had never seen them before. Didn't even know anything about them, but I wasn't the only one. The shooter before me gets up and starts shooting the stage, he's hitting them pretty good. He gets to a popper and hits it, it don't fall down, he shoots it 6 more times and it still don't fall down. He goes to do his reload and the popper falls down. He was hitting it just fast enough to hold it up.

So this is one guy who probably don't like them!

[Jim Norman]

FFP You either like thim or you don't. The first time I ever saw them was about four years ago at the single stack classic. They had one stage with all steel on it, US poppers, Peper popers, plates, I thought it was an OK stage. It also had a couple of FFP on it, I had never seen them before. Didn't even know anything about them, but I wasn't the only one. The shooter before me gets up and starts shooting the stage, he's hitting them pretty good. He gets to a popper and hits it, it don't fall down, he shoots it 6 more times and it still don't fall down. He goes to do his reload and the popper falls down. He was hitting it just fast enough to hold it up.

So this is one guy who probably don't like them!

From the MD's point of view, I think it is important to announce very clearly in the WSB that there are FFPs on a stage. PARTICULARLY if you mix them in with standard poppers.

As far as a shooter, I don't care which, so long as I know. From a range safety point of view, the FFP MAY be safer. From a power factor point of view, I think that they stink. Just about any hit will take them down, and they fall only so fast. With the rearwards, you can hit thme higher or lower and you can drive them down to facilitate a faster activation of a target.

How do you calibrate them? Of course maybe you don't need to so long as they work, but shouldn't a low power hit leave a popper standing?

Jim

[lynn jones]

our club just bought 7 new ffpp from gunsteel. thanks max!

here's a pic:

[ima45dv8]

our club just bought 7 new ffpp from gunsteel. thanks max!

here's a pic:

I like these. No offence to Mr. Friday's version, but this one has much less 'stuff' to get shot up on the front side.

[justinwb]

I shot them for the first time at nationals and I didnt like them. I guess its just being used to shooting the rear falling ones. But I could get used to them.

[shred]

The Nationals design wasn't a very good one. The idea was ok, but the execution didn't make it. Rumor has it they were all supposed to be rearward falling poppers (notice the totally useless adjustment bolt on all of 'em?), but the range neighbors didn't want them like that. There needs to be less lean on them and a more positive 'unlock' mechanism.

[EricW]

It would be a huge service to the shooting community if someone directly involved with that Nats would write up a summary of what was right, what was wrong, and how to fix it in the future. Pictures would be a huge boon to such an endeavor.

I think FFP's are the right direction, but obviously there need to be some clear engineering guidelines. This is an opportunity for someone to really make a difference, and I hope they take it.