bpowe Posted October 18, 2006 Share Posted October 18, 2006 (edited) The Nationals design wasn't a very good one. The idea was ok, but the execution didn't make it. Rumor has it they were all supposed to be rearward falling poppers (notice the totally useless adjustment bolt on all of 'em?), but the range neighbors didn't want them like that. There needs to be less lean on them and a more positive 'unlock' mechanism. The adjustment bolt was supposed to keep the face of the popper from being pushed so far back that they would stand on their own. There were several we noticed through the match that were loose/unset (but not after we left the stage!) We only had a couple of production shooters on our squad. Major reliably took the poppers down but minor usually didn't if the hit was below the scoring ring... Isn't that the way they're supposed to be calibrated? Bill Edited October 18, 2006 by bpowe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ihatepickles Posted October 18, 2006 Share Posted October 18, 2006 It would be a huge service to the shooting community if someone directly involved with that Nats would write up a summary of what was right, what was wrong, and how to fix it in the future. Pictures would be a huge boon to such an endeavor. I think FFP's are the right direction, but obviously there need to be some clear engineering guidelines. This is an opportunity for someone to really make a difference, and I hope they take it. This is a great post, take what we learn at big matches and allow small clubs to benefit from the knowledge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shred Posted October 18, 2006 Share Posted October 18, 2006 The Nationals design wasn't a very good one. The idea was ok, but the execution didn't make it. Rumor has it they were all supposed to be rearward falling poppers (notice the totally useless adjustment bolt on all of 'em?), but the range neighbors didn't want them like that. There needs to be less lean on them and a more positive 'unlock' mechanism. The adjustment bolt was supposed to keep the face of the popper from being pushed so far back that they would stand on their own. There were several we noticed through the match that were loose/unset (but not after we left the stage!) We only had a couple of production shooters on our squad. Major reliably took the poppers down but minor usually didn't if the hit was below the scoring ring... Isn't that the way they're supposed to be calibrated? Bill Sure looked like an adjustment bolt for a RFP to me. http://www.actiontarget.com/pdf/Sales_Sheet_PT_Poppers.pdf Sorta, well, exactly, like those. Ok, so maybe it could be used as an overtravel stop, but the latch design made it pretty much impossible to stand-up the poppers anyway. I saw several minor hits in the scoring ring that didn't take down poppers. Many of them were center hits and not edgers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SA Friday Posted October 21, 2006 Author Share Posted October 21, 2006 I talked to one of my fellow CO shooting buddies that shot nationals, and his first comment was the FFP's they were using had cruddy activation mechanisms. Compared to the ones we use, they were not good at all, even saw hits from open guns not dropping them. The pictures of the ones we are using here are pretty much flawless in operation, and there is no damage from bullet splatter into the mechanism or base. It isn't that they are FFP's, but the mechanism on the ones at nationals that's to blame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trey1975 Posted December 11, 2006 Share Posted December 11, 2006 (edited) I think it is wrong to mix popper designs at a match. All forward falling, or all conventional. I dont mind mixed poppers at all.I like the "floppers"...they add yet another trick to this sport we love so much.The trickier a stage the more I like it! JMHO Edited December 11, 2006 by Trey1975 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronnie Casper Posted December 11, 2006 Share Posted December 11, 2006 Here's a forward falling popper design used at the Area 4 Championship. I was impressed enough with the design that I made it a point to take these pictures. Ronnie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Norman Posted December 11, 2006 Share Posted December 11, 2006 All catches have the posibility of not releasing. They are mechanical and all things mechanical can fail. Just an idea here. How about a compression type spring, maybe a valve spring, with a bolt in through it, you can set the popper against the bolthead and it looks like a regular popper, hit it, the spring compresses and relaxs which is the action that throws the popper forward and over the edge. There would need to be some method of adjusting for out of level playing fileds, same goes for any sort of catch, if the base is tipped or settles too far the catch will not release with the same timing or force applied. Essntially the big point in favor of this, the spring bumper design, is that there is an absolute minimum of moving parts, just the popper face and the spring bolt assembly. I will admit that I really DO NOT LIKE forward falling poppers. No calibrations is both a good and a bad thing. No ability to "Time" an activator, hit the popper and it moves, or not. With a rearward falling, one can drive it down, or hit it low so it goes slow. Not so with these. A hit and it is gone. Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
styx Posted December 12, 2006 Share Posted December 12, 2006 the design in the pictures looks like a good, workable one. But, looking at them, what did the latch/release mechanism parts come off of? They're too precise to have been fabricated by a typical small fabrication shop unless they have a robotic plasma cutter or a water jet machine. I'll have to look around on some ag equipment and see if I can come up with some ideas. I'd really like to shoot a few of these FFP's just to see if it would be worth trying to make some. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shred Posted December 12, 2006 Share Posted December 12, 2006 The ones Casper posted pictures of were built by Matt Bigham out of Gatesville, TX. As far as I know he's not making them right now, but was thinking of getting back into it. All the parts are custom-cut from AR400 or so, using a robotic cutter of some sort-- I think plasma, but could be WJ. They're by far the best design I've ever seen for FFPs-- notice how the plate is way forward of the hinge-- no way any gust of wind is holding these up after the latch drops. Even the US-popper size makes for reliable activators and the big ones can yank small planes out of the sky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRe Posted December 12, 2006 Share Posted December 12, 2006 The only problem w/ Matt's design that I can see is that they take two hands to reset Otherwise, they're super nice, and drop very reliably... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38stupid Posted December 12, 2006 Share Posted December 12, 2006 Our club uses some spring loaded FFPs. They are very sluggish when they are hit and fall. I totally understand the benifits but I have seen them hit and "hang" for what seems to be for ever. (with 45acp major loads on a windy day). You cant complain about them because everyone has to shoot the same COFs. I dont like them in classifiers! Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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