The reload

[Flexmoney]

Makes a lot of sense to me.

As a mattrer of fact...a buddy was over and we had the Super Squad video in the player (Saul Kirsch's video from the latest Open Nats).

We watched some of the other top shooters on a stage...then Todd Jarrett. At first it looked like Todd was reloading then moving. But, of course, on closer inspection...he was simply getting his reload done faster than his first step.

[shred]

Inspired by the awesome TT video, I have been practicing reloads with the gun up in front of my face and trying to keep it as vertical as possible.

I've been doing the same thing Erik. One other thing I noticed is that TT doesn't bring the gun back towards his torso hardly at all. Just enough to make an effecient angle, nothing more. When I've set my par times, my cleanest loads are when I keep the gun away from me.

One thing to be careful of is that arms-length mag changes are super-speedy when standing still, but can be less reliable if done on the move.

[schmitz]

My reloads have improved dramatically over the last couple of months.  Practice has played no role in this.  Installing S& slimline mag wells has made a huge difference!

Rhino,

bigger, slickier etc. magwells don't work for me My reloads: I'll always f*ck them up. Too much pressure. One needs to train, it doesn't come with buying the gear.

Wile.

[rhino]

. . . it doesn't come with buying the gear.

At least in this case, it did the trick for me!

[tightloop]

schmitz

You might never know if you don't try it...

I am with the Purple dude, big hole = fast reload...for me.

[schmitz]

Rhino/Tightloop,

I'm shooting an IPSC Standard Gun, when I use a bigger Magwell then my gun doesn't fit in the box anymore. It's already MAX.

Scheisse, Henny/Wile

[rhino]

schmitz ... the magwell I added is TINY compared to what you probably already have on your standard gun. My Kimber was bare, then I had an S&S slim line fitted to it. It's small even compared to other single stack magwells, but it made a huge difference for me. A little bit helped!

[j1b]

First I find Phil's post amazingly insightful. Second I've never burned a .80 at a match that I'm aware of so that's pretty damn impressive too.

Shooting limited ten this season reloading has become a new focus. If I were shooting limited or open - I wouldn't emphasize it much. Production and limited-10 have really opened my eyes.

Reloading has been frustrating for me lately. As something that I used to be able to hang my hat on in the old days - today it represents a major opportunity and I've been working it hard the past week or so. Getting better - but not where I need to be.

I've made improvements - I was struggling to get a draw, 1, reload, 1 drill in under 2 seconds before (at 7 yards) and now I can hit that semi-consistently. I've also gotten to the sub 1.5 range once or twice. I still struggle with the every now and again 2.5 or 2.6 that comes with a fumbled load - something I've done in matches a few times. Clearly I have my work cut out for me.

The thing I have to remember is that on movement stages, a muffed load isn't going to kill me. I may lose some points but as long as everything else goes well I should be ok. It ain't a match killer by any means. The other thing I have to remember is that hitting most all loads in a match would likely help me gain 10-15 points on any given competitor at any given match. I've won matches by less, so I need to strive to make that happen more often.

Reloading is a challenge for me today - but I'll continue to work on it until I'm where I need to be.

JB

[Nik Habicht]

We watched some of the other top shooters on a stage...then Todd Jarrett. At first it looked like Todd was reloading then moving. But, of course, on closer inspection...he was simply getting his reload done faster than his first step.

Kyle, I wouldn't be too sure of that. One of Todd's principles, stressed over and over was "Do one thing at a time." That might explain it a little ---- of course the sheer speed at which he executes stuff in succession helps a lot....

[rhino]

If he's doing one thing at a time, he can get away with it because 1) he reloads so fast, and 2) he runs faster than most people.

[Nik Habicht]

If he's doing one thing at a time, he can get away with it because 1) he reloads so fast, and 2) he runs faster than most people.

If I understood it and remember it correctly, he suggested that the speed is possible because he only does one thing at a time, not that he can afford to do one thing at a time because he's so fast....

[rhino]

Well, he's Da Man! So that must be the case!

[Larrys1911]

Well its been around 2 1/2 years since I visited this thread and posted last time.

Since its back on the board I thought I would give an update on some things I have learned that may help some of you guys too.

One of the biggest gains I had in my reloads were from someone on this thread saying "most people just lazily get their hand to the mag and back up to the gun"

That was a TREMENDOUS help. You can take 1/2 second off most peoples reloads that are simply not doing this!

Learning to RELAX was HUGE to me, I cant tell you how to relax only that you MUST. The first time you relax and hit a mag change KNOWING you are relaxed....its an eye opening experience.

Next is I was having a serious problem not hitting the hole. I did something people talk about with the Draw. I reverse "engineered" it. I really did it by accident at first and realized it would help a lot. I was practicing my RWRs for IDPA and relaized that taking the mag out correctly would also line the gun up for a reload.

I simply placed the gun where it should be to be in line with my arm for the most effient and smootest reload. It made a HUGE difference in being able to hit the hole. even without a magwell!

Also in looking at the magwell I learned that I can look at different points to move the mag insertion point IE: I was always missing low so I moved my focus from the lower edge to the Top edge of the magwell If you consistently miss the same way move your focus around on the well until you find where "YOU" need to look.

Worked for me anyway!

The next really big gain in live fire or matches, and the reason most of us have problems doing it in a match, is you MUST learn to reload INSTANTLY the milisecond the last shot is fired.

Most people can pick up substantial time learning to do this alone. KNOW where you will reload and DO IT NOW!

The next was learning to keep the gun out farther. I never new how much this helped but using Steves book in DF it will take .1 - .2 off your reloads.

Another thing I tried that seems to help me smooth things out (I dont know WHY) but the "Tactical" guys say to wait until the reload has been touched (making sure its there) before dropping your current mag (assuming its not empty and you are speedloading) This wont work for some of you and probably wouldnt for me (hitting the falling mag with the new one) anymore either but it did smooth things out for a while, possibly just a trick of the day thing to make my attention be focused elsewhere.

Anyway there are my tips.

I havent practiced with a 1911 in almost 2 yrs so I have no idea my reload times with it now. BUT

My best reload recorded with a Glock G17 with no magwell at 7 yds on an IDPA tgt was high .8s I can normally hit around 1 second on demand and have yet to go below 1.2 in a match that I know of!

All that is about to change thought I started dry practice again after a 6 month hiatus and I am seeing many things that will help me improve everywere. In the reload dept I think I can hit some of those sub second "drill type" reloads now after just a couple weeks.

Oh someone asked about RWR times and TL times.

Last time I practiced them my best "LIVE FIRE" RWR was in the real low 1.4s

the best tac load is in the mid 1.6s both with a Glock 17.

Thanks to all of you for the help, and I hope some of this will help someone else!

Larry Pogue

[TommyGun]

Everyone talks of the shoot one reload one, I've never tried that drill. I don't find myself using such a skill on the range. I always run shoot two reload shoot two. I have got that down to 2.13 (.91 draw .16 splt .89 reload .17 split) and had Qstik running the timer. I can go cold on this drill at 2.3 to 2.5 consistantly. I think this drill has done more for my overall shooting ability than any other.

Phil and Todd and all the other Top guys are probably alot faster on this drill, but having something that you know you can repeat is priceless. It gives you a confidence that you have the hand eye speed, now you need to improve in another area.

Taking the elbow back to a consistent place touching the ribs ever so slightly has helped me be much more consistent and faster on the reload. It lowers the gun from eye level just a bit, and puts it into a slight cant that aligns with your opposite hand. Makes for a direct line from mag pouch to mag well. I have passed this tip on to several people who with a day or two of practice have cut their reloads by .2 to .4. I am sure I'm not the first to come up with such a simple technique, but it seems to be the simplest thing to make an easy improvement. Just stay relaxed and let the speed come to you..........

About to make Master

TGun

[ErikW]

Everyone talks of the shoot one reload one, I've never tried that drill. I don't find myself using such a skill on the range. I always run shoot two reload shoot two.

I agree, but I take a step further and use 2 or 3 targets to include transitions. Then it's a real reload.

[dirtypool40]

I know no one has hit this thread (but me) for about six months now, but I've been working on reloads a lot down here and thought I would add my own "revelations".

Simple & repeatable are good things to have people say about your reload. I shoot IPSC standard class now, and had to give up the belly button position for mag #1, my long, easy to seat mags and that big Dawson Ice magwell. Those, couple with the Arredondo button are the things that helped me break 1.0 two years back. Or so I thought. I had dry fired the reload, eyes closed, moving, indexing, the whole nine yards, until my plastic insert was fuzzy.

Coming down here, changing gear, my loads went from 1.1-1.3 in matches to 1.5+ and it was pretty frustrating. Like J1B said, it used to be something I could count on. In practice, I had gone as fast as .82, and was right around a second .95-1.05 with hits regularly.

I was pretty pissed, and ALMOST ready to accept that it may just be slower. You guys kept me from that resignation. You shamed me into getting off my dead ass and practicing, and figuring out what was slow. It was all of it, a slow left hand, a slow button push and inconsistent movement.

I have also simplified my gear, I have a tiny plastic Krebs magwell. I think it's the smallest one anybody offers. I have no button on my gun, just some checkering on the standard release. My mags are shorter and the first one is way back at "point of hip" where my 3rd USPSA mag used to be.

With some dry fire and a little analysis, you know what? I am faster than I have ever been, (And damned proud of myself for sticking with it). Objectively there are mechanical advantages to having that other equipment, but I have worked through it and gotten to the point where I have overcome most if not all of that.

My new PB for a reload to a popper at 10y is a .79, with a bunch of .82's. I'm chasing a .75 by the FL Open, just to have the cool number, but more than that I have all but quit working on standing reloads. It's the "blast off" reloads we use the most and that's my new focus.

Meaning no disrespect to Steve Anderson, who's book I bought and enjoyed btw, I am going the opposite way, working the match performance first, letting the classifiers catch up when they do. For me, a good snappy, repeatable reload as you "blast" out of a position is a big conerstone to have in your bag of tricks.

Just some crowing, but I thought it belonged here on the relaod discussion.

[Flexmoney]

DP...that is some good stuff. I think you and Steve are more alike than you know.

[mcoliver]

So what's the sequence? Stand with gun out then at the beep, blast off and do the reload then shoot the popper?

[XRe]

I thought I might brag on Burkett a little bit... he can feel free to slap me around, if he wants, if I'm way off on these times.

I took a class from him back in, like, early '98 (??) up in Tenessee. He was trying to impress upon me that relaxation during a reload is key. I was reloading right at the 1.0 range at that point, but tension was killing my consistsency.

While demonstrating lack of tension (and also the benefits of practicing reloads over a table), he proceeded to do several sub .65 reloads. IIRC, one of them may have been a .55. It was in the range of what I'd call "stupid fast". He was breaking the second shot before the mag hit the low table at about waist level. We were shooting at a steel IPSC target at 10 yards or so, so I have no clue what the hits were like.

I was highly impressed - both at his prowess, and at the lesson at hand. One of the most memorable events of the day, along with my first *true* introduction to shooting at full awareness....

Dave

[Duane Thomas]

I am sure I'm not the first to come up with such a simple technique, but it seems to be the simplest thing to make an easy improvement.

Brian Enos talks about it in Practical Shooting: Beyond Fundamentals, as well as on Lenny Magill's IPSC Secrets video. I guess great minds think alike.

[dirtypool40]

Flex, McOliver,

DP's Blast Off Reload Drill. (Oh, crap I named something, now I'm married to it and have to defend it to the death......they'll talk about me like Weaver, and Wilson....Noooooooo!!!!!

Sorry, anyway....

Since we usually move to the right in field courses I do this to the right about 75% of the time. So I set up one target at 10y, and about 5y to it's right a popper, set so it won't fall and I can run the drill over and over.

start in a box, facing a target 10y away.

Draw shoot an "A", blast out of the box as you reload and then I shoot the popper on the move once the reload is done. My best so far is a .94 for the load.

I set it up once with a little barricade and shot it both ways, with and without a reload, and I got to where I was pretty close either way. (In fact, come to think of it it's not a bad idea to keep you honest. Otherwise, you may just smash a standing reload and then shoot the popper as you take your first step.) I know I am making progress when the load doesn't effect the time much.

Of course you are throwing another variable in there, something that can go wrong, but it's still nice to know you can take away MOST of the disadvantage with practice.

Anyway, as to the drill itself; I get to practice my draw, "blast off" reload, and shooting on the move.

You can also put up a second box, like for "Times Two", but I just want to reload moving and see how soon I am done with it.

As to Steve, I meant no disrespect, I just think we are solving the puzzle from different ends. Call it "convergent evolution", we will probably end up with similiar conclusions, but we are getting there by different routes. I just hope my route includes a GM card someday, like Steve already has.

By the way, more crowing , after I hit this the other day I got to practice. At the end I did some standing reloads, and have a new personal best of a .76 for a 10y "A". No I could't hit 100 in a row at that speed, but it always feels nice to push back the PB a little.

[Kevin Kline]

Nik was right, Todd teaches doing one thing at a time. He impressed upon me to reload (or at least start the reloading process) prior to moving or getting out of the box.

[hopalong]

Ya'll may want to ask SPOOK how to do it????

(see Accomplishments thread on faster reloads)

Hopalong

[Sgtsvi]

I have been practicing my reloads every night and it seems to have paid off some. I shot a match Last sunday and was really nailing my reloads well. The R.O. checked the timer and told me that I had a 1.24 reload during a stage. I just received my classification tuesday at "C" class, so I was pretty pleased with my progress. Thanks for all the good advice in these forums.

Dave

[dirtypool40]

a 1.24 IS pretty fast. I remember someone telling me when I started that if you could hit REAL 1.20 draws and reloads in matches you could win master class.

I still think it's true.

Consistency far outweighs speed. Miss just ONE of your smoking .80's and you're fumbling trying to catch up and you'll see a 3.50 on the timer before you know it.

Cold I can hit A's from 10y in about 1.0-1.1, for either draw and reload. Yeah, I know that's not smokin', but I can really do it. Yes, I can warm up, hit a thousand and drop a couple of tenths. But cold, real money, I feel anything around 1.10 is alright.