The reload

[Larrys1911]

Guys,

I got my Reload from Matt B. book!

I am doing very good to get 1.6 with a Single Stack 1911 when I am "in the groove"  avg is in the 1.8s!  

fastest is in the 1.4s ONCE

One night I was running drills and had a piece of cardbloard on the floor. Using 2 loaded mags I was dropping the mag and back on tgt when the mag hit the cardboard! I went to bed thinking "I finally got it" when I woke up it was gone. I have NEVER done it again!

How about you guys walking us through a reload step by step!

I seem to have problems being to high or low with the mag/ magwell relationship!

any help would be appreciated as I am NO WHERE NEAR 1 second reloads!

thanks

Larry P

[Flexmoney]

Larry,

I posted this on 1911forum.  It is what I am looking for.  Hopefully others can add to and improve on my thoughts.  There was a question earlier in that thread asking about looking at the gun.  

Yes...look the mag into the gun.

Here is what I am working towards on a reload...

After I fire the last shot...my weak hand goes to the fresh mag on the belt, while my strong hand thumb hits the mag release...

I pull my strong arm in so that the inside of my bicep is touching the side of my chest...my strong-side forearm is more vertical than horizontal...I tilt the gun so that I can see into the magwell (if you have a true magwell, look for the seam)...I try to do this as close to eye level as possible (lowering the gun takes time and puts the targets out of sight longer)...

My weak hand should be bringing the mag to the gun now (in front of the eyes)...index finger pointing the mag into the magwell...

As the mag gets to the gun...I want to almost stop the movement, I slight pause here really helps. It may seem slow to pause, but it isn't...and it makes the reload work better...

After the mag starts into the chute...you gotta see it...my eyes will shift to the target...as my weak hand finishes pushing the mag up, my strong hand brings the gun down until the mag is seated...

Then my weak hand rotates into the shooting grip and I present the gun to the target.

[Steve Anderson]

50 a night, dry: empty gun on target. at the beep, hit the mag button and bring the new mag to just out side the well.

I start with an empty gun for two reasons:

a. I hate picking up mags during a dry fire marathon

b. The mag falling from the gun can divert the eyes to follow it, instead of watching the magwell.

When that gets down to a 1-ish par time, switch to putting the mag into the gun, retaining the slight pause. Turn the par time off for this portion. You don't need or want to "hurry" this, you're already faster. get on target.

You can always try racing stripes on the mag well like Flex for visual help, but my guns are so worn from practice there's a nice silver outline around the opening. Kyle got lots of questions about his mag teeth last weekend...

The first time you see the target THEN hear the mag hit the floor is magical...It took a month of this routine to get there for me. (production, Beretta, no mag-sucker)

SA

Thanks to Matt Burkett, from whom I stole the above modified drill. (Buy the videos!)

BTW Matt, next time you show us a .7 reload, show us the target too. Inquiring minds wanna know!

(Edited by Steve Anderson at 4:57 am on Sep. 24, 2002)

[Larrys1911]

Somehow I just KNEW You were going to tell me I have PRACTICE more!!!! <VBG>

I gotta be getting close to a repetitive motion injury!

[snokid]

I can get the 1.6 reloads with a ss, But the problem I have using idpa gear is that my fat is in the way of the mags, and when the mag gets to the gun it's never being held the same way twice. If I put uspsa gear on then I can get my hand on the mag without problem and it's pretty much the same way each time it reaches the gun.

so what do us old fat guys do when we can't get our hands around the mag while it's in the mag pouch?

sno

[Duane Thomas]

Exercise?

I'm not trying to be a smartass. I'm beginning to get a bit of the ol' paunch myself, and this garbage is NOT going to continue. It's time to start regular work-outs again.

[Steve Moneypenny]

if your fat gets in the way... you now have a real incentive to eat less, workout more. if you are intense enough shooting can push you into running, sprinting, squats  and a Lot of other stuff you would never have thought of doing

to date best time with my para/dawson Ice mag well 1.08

with beretta 1.20 (from IDPA/Production rig)

it kind of pisses me off when everybody who CAN'T do a sub-second draw or reload judges everyone else who can't... those who can do these things are called GM's for a reason, and are winning for the same reason, they practice their ass off, or are incredibally lucky!!!

[Steve Anderson]

Agreed.

For every 1.2 reload I've done in live fire, I've done probly 500-1000 in dry fire. Many in dry fire have been sub-second.

It's no secret. If you practice hard, you will improve.

SA

[dirtypool40]

Jeez, old I only find the old threads or what?

I just got my "M" card about six months ago so I don't feel all comfy and solid about saying I can do this or that, but....

Single stack reloads hover at least .2 seconds slower than with my high cap.   Whoever said it is right, they are not as forgiving.

I had the same short finger trouble as the fellah above me, went to an Arrendondo button, got a Dawson "ICE" magwell for my birthday, and started hitting them in under 1 sec for the first time ever.

I too hit that hands relaxed start drill, and I'm obviously no "TJ", but I figure if I do it in under 2.00 sec that's a second for each, draw and reload.

For the money I can hit boring 1.20s both draw and reload with regularity, but warmed up and "WFO", under a second is possible. But  .7? not me & not yet....

[mcoliver]

Forgive my question, but what is your reload sequence of events?

Me, from the 2-handed grip, release weak hand hold and go for the spare mag.  At the same time, my strong hand reaches for the mag release button and I twist the gun a little in my hand (I may be loosing time here.)  At this very point since my weak hand is faster acquiring the spare, I'm gripping it *waiting* for the old mag to fall out (again this pause is probably eating my time, too).

Pull the gun a bit closer to the chest while removing spare mag from the pouch. Twist gun to see magwell getting ready for the spare already making it's way to it (this is where all hell breaks loose and I either hit the magwell edge or the rear of the magwell). Pause, adjust mag to fit in hole (I believe this is the part some of you stress for the pause).

Ram mag inside hole with palm, see target, push gun out, acquire sights (or rush shot if mag insertion was fumbled).

Oh, BTW, this is with my SS 1911.  Comments?

[PaulW]

Ok, here is my $.02.  I use to REALLy struggle with reloading.  Through many, many hours of breaking down the movement needed to reload I have the following opinion.  It is MUCH easier to reload when only one component is moving at a time.  What I mean is it is much harder to consistantly reload when you are trying to move the pistol inward and move the new mag to the mag opening.  So here is what I do.  The start of the reload process starts when my weakhand goes to retrive a fresh mag, my strong hand thumb hits the mag release (I use an extended button that allows me to not have to shift my hand at all).  The next step is the most important, basically I want to shift the top of my strong hand downward, facing the ground.  this movement cams my elbow is slightly and shifts the mag opening so i can see it.  Watch the mag go in the mag opening.  By having little movement in the gun I am able to reindex the next target very quickly.  And by having little movement with the gun it is easier to be more consistant, only one thing is moving, your not trying to meet the mag and the gun together.

[davecutts]

I've screewed more reloads than I can count, up by pushing the pistol down on the mag .  One key for me is to loosen up my strong hand grip as I hit the mag release and push up the safety.  I find that the loosness in the grip alows me to seat the fresh mag clean even if my aim if off a smidge.

[Jake Di Vita]

I find that most times when I botch a reload, it's when my weak hand shoots down to my mag, but I don't get a good grip on it, as in my case, my index finger is not running along the front of the mag, but somewhat diagonal from base to top.

[Duane Thomas]

I think there's a tendency to break the reload down in our mind, and execution, into bite sized, easy to understand portions. "Bring gun in and hit mag button/grip mag in pouch" is Step 1. "Turn gun to accept mag/bring mag up to mag well" is Step 2. "Insert mag/bring gun back on target" is Step 3.

Where I was able to take major time off my reload was by understanding there was no reason to separate Steps 1 and 2. Instead of waiting until the mag button has been pushed and the mag is falling out of the gun to bring up the spare mag, speed up the process of bringing up the spare mag so it's coming up toward the mag well AS the old mag is leaving the gun. Instead of "Bring gun in and hit mag button/grip mag in pouch" THEN "Turn gun to accept mag/bring mag up to mag well" it now goes "Punch mag button as gun moves back slightly/acquire grip on new mag/bring mag up to mag well" becomes Step One.

You can really cut out a lot of time if you don't wait for the old mag to leave the well before the spare mag starts for the gun. The two mags should actually pass each other in the air, one going up, the other down. Where it gets really fun is when you get fast enough you actually start hitting the old mag with the new one. I've bounced the old mag off my glasses a few times. Watch someone like Travis do a reload. It's awesome. The mag barely clears the mag well by a few inches and the spare mag's in.

A full-length mirror will be a major help if you want to work on this - and many other facets of your shooting, as well. Watch yourself in the mirror. See how the old mag has hit the floor before the fresh mag even begins moving toward the gun. Now, keeping the movement of the gun (as little as possible) and punching the mag button the same speed, concentrate on speeding up the movements of the weak hand as it brings up the spare mag. Start getting the mags crossing each other in the air. I like to alternate watching the mag going into the mag well with reps where I just watch myself and my technique. Mag well, me, mag well, me, mag well, me. This allows you to monitor your technique AND practice "looking the mag in."

Hope that helped.

(Edited by Duane Thomas at 6:10 pm on Oct. 17, 2002)

[mcoliver]

AHA!  From your post, DT, I've caught 2 ways where I *may* be able to cut time:

1. Right now I twist the gun (magwell) out and fling the mag away.  This motion actually helps me acquire the mag button also.  Maybe I can instead twist in, but I may have to change to a different (longer?) button.

2. Get rid of the pause when grabbing the spare mag.

Oh, and that "mag hitting" thing, I kinda did that once with my glock but instead of the old one going to my face it instead was pushed back in, got stuck and I panicked.  I was grappling with the stock button and twisting my wrist frantically to get rid of the mag that I practically looked like I was ringing a bell in my hand.  You shoud've seen the look on the RO's faces.

[Jake Di Vita]

With a lot of shooters at our local matches, the biggest thing I see is that when they go to grab their mags, they don't do it with any actual speed, they just get their hand down their and grab it. I was having a horrible time trying to get under 1.5 seconds, until I figured out that my weak hand was moving to slow down to the mag. As soon as I changed that, I dropped my reloads to about 1.2 consistently.

[dirtypool40]

I have seen Paul's reloads, and they have changed and improved recently. I took a couple of months off.  When I came back he had shortened his motion, almost ala Chris Tilley but not as awkward looking.  

They were consistent the night I saw him shoot, and looked fast.

Paul, have you had a clock on those things yet? Into the .80's at all?

[Duane Thomas]

"1. Right now I twist the gun (magwell) out and fling the mag away.  This motion actually helps me acquire the mag button also.  Maybe I can instead twist in, but I may have to change to a different (longer?) button."

I don't have much use for the outward flip at all. If you're moving your support hand fast to the mag, you're not gonna have a lot of time to be playing games with the gun. Move it to where you want it, right off the bat. In a perfect world you'd be able to hit the mag button without shifting your grip. Personally I use my carry gun in matches; with its Wilson slightly extended button it does require slightly shifting my grip. I accomplish this by moving my fingers on the front strap so they can push the gun to the side - if that made sense - the web of my hand stays in the same place on the grip safety. As soon as mag insertion is complete I just wrap my fingers back around the frontstrap and I'm instantly back into my master grip.

[shred]

FYi-- TJ teaches a bit of an outward flip as part of the reload-- well, not quite.   It's more of a rotate the magwell away from the incoming mag while bringing the gun back to the reload position.  Done fast and smooth it works well.  

[mcoliver]

Something I noted while I was doing dry mag changes last night.  As your weak hand goes for the spare mag, do you drop the whole arm down or do you keep your weak elbow fairly high and just drop the forearm?  Not sure if I'm making sense but I was doing the former and just stumbled on the latter w/c felt smoother and I could consistently grab the spare mag better.

[Duane Thomas]

I used to do the "keep the elbow high and just move the arm from the elbow forward" thing. I quit that and now drop the entire arm. It's smoother and gives you a much better straight-line "shot" up into the mag well on insertion.

One other thing that occurred to me, that might help people, is to isolate all the movement in the reload into your arms. It was pointed out to me, about six months ago by someone watching me dry fire, "Do you know you move your entire body backward during the reload?" I watched for it and realized he was right. During shooting I'd be leaned slightly forward into the gun, but during the reload I'd straighten up, then back down into my forward lean afterward. LOTS of wasted time and movement to cut out there.

Instead, concentrate on staying in your shooting platform - head, torso, everything - as you reload. Nothing moves but the arms. Really the gun only moves a few inches, the support hand arm moves to acquire and seat the mag. Nothing else moves. Again the full-length mirror is a great aid here.

[PaulW]

DirtyPool,

My fastest recorded reload I have seen was .75, with .95-1.10 being the norm.  One thing I try to work on is NOT to fling the mag away from me, it screws up my timing and is inconsistent.  It's been tough to break the habbit of doing that.  Some people do it because they have a hard time reaching the mag button, I use the EGW paddle that has been shved down considerable as to not release when picking the gun off a table, paddle is shorter that tumb safety.

[dirtypool40]

Paul, I thought you looked fast.

I have the Arrendondo button on my gun and love it, but I am terrified of table starts.

As to Duane's comments above, he's right; minimize the movement, and you can do that with race gear. And that fling themag things adds minuted to your reload, it's a hard one to break though, I know.

A couple of years back I was trying to get ready for the SSC and could not keep from moving my body on both draw and reload.  Bear in mind that this is IDPA type gear.  I had to go watch TGO at the match, he HAD to have found a way around it.....

He was moving too, just less, quicker and more consistantly (per usual).

[lynn jones]

hi all,

i don't remember the thread that eric warren started about reload times, so i just added to this one.

after realizing that i need to improve my reloads (nice way to say the suck).

i went to the range to practice today, yes, i said practice. the area 2 champ is right around the corner. well, like i said i went to the range to practice. the day didn't start off to good, the IDPA shooters had rescheduled a match for today. so i smoothed talked my way into a shooting bay and set up.

i had be practicing on three targets 2 on each reload to on each. reload times were about 1.3-1.7 seconds. ok, for practice. then i thought about erik warren. he said he did a sub second reload! hmm, i say to myself. lets try to do a sub second reload. after several attempts at one shot reload one shot. i finally did a .98 reload with a .79 first shot. was i safe you ask? yes! did i hit the target you ask? no! but, i know i have the mechanics to a sub second reload!

maybe i should practice some more.. watch out erik!

lynn jones

p.s. there were a lot of ugly attempts at the sub second reload.

[Jake Di Vita]

After you have done it only once, the mental block is gone, and the path to improvement is usually illuminated more than ever.

Way to go.