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The reload


Ron Ankeny

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Kathy,

I'm not sure I understand your question. Of course I look at the target when I draw because my hand knows where my gun is since it is always in the same place. If it is lying on a table I look at the gun, not at the target. Because, like during a reload, it is not always in the same place and I use two hands to insure I don't fumble. I almost always mag change while moving so no time is lost by glancing at the gun. If it is a standing reload I think the glance at the gun is well worth the time spent to insure a good reload.

To use your analogy: "When you draw do you look at the gun or the target?  Most of us look at the target cause that's where we want the gun to go... right? "

I would probably be throwing my mags down range.

Bonedaddy,

Thanks for the laugh! Put the dot far enough inside where you have to have the gun just right to see it. Since it is dark in there I used red so my old tired eyes could see it.

(Edited by Singlestack at 1:05 am on Sep. 10, 2001)

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  • 2 months later...
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I think both techniques deserve merit. While I prefer to look the mag in, as it prevents mistakes (much easier to point the mag where you are looking) I also practice doing reloads with my eyes closed. The reload is part visual, and part feel. Practice both. Its not unlike the npa drill BE has posted elsewhere, pay attention to your body feels when performing a reload.

As far as during a match, if the gun is kept up at eye level, peripherally you will still maintain view of the target. Drop the gun and you will lose sight of the targets. Always maintain the gun at eye level, when reloading, when moving, opening doors, etc.

Don't rule anything out though, I remember one stage in a winter match, where 15 or 16 targets were strewn throughout some trees on a hillside range, and you as the shooter stood still (as it was unsafe to run) and engaged all targets. The trick on this was to NOT look at your magwell on reloads or you would lose track of which targets you had shot, and which were left. So having the reload down as a feel was a huge bonus.

Pat

(Edited by Pat Harrison at 7:25 pm on Nov. 22, 2001)

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  • 1 month later...

I have been shooting a singlestack exclusively for two years now, and I can hit a mag change (consistently) between 1.15 and 1.3 seconds. The best mag change that I have ever done with it was .89 at the Heritage Single Stack Classic last Nov. I was stoked. Just think about how it will be with an STI bigmouth magwell. BTW I am a Limited B and L10 B class shooter both obtained with the singlestack.

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  • 2 weeks later...

i am a slow reloader. 1.6-1.8 generally with my beretta. not sure on the other guns. a little faster sometimes with my kimber single stack (has a wilson mag well) and i haven't shot much in the last few months on timer.

reload practice in the dark is a must when you shoot in night shoots... boy what an eye opener that was!

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I shot a match a few weeks ago where one of the stages actually was an El Presidente in the dark. Really, I should probably say demi-El Presidente since you started facing the targets, and at seven yards instead of 10. If memory serves me correctly - and I believe it does - I did it in 7.13, two points down. That's about half a second to a full second slower than my normal time on a "real" El Prez, but amazingly enough more accurate.

It was really a fascinating experience. The targets were dimly lit with overhead light but the shooter was in darkness. FORGET about the night sights on my Wilson, they're useless for that sort of fast shooting. The really interesting thing is that, even shooting that fast - well, kinda fast anyway - I could see my sights, silhouetted in the muzzle flash for every shot. Now IN BETWEEN shots I couldn't see them, so I just had to trust, from my index, they'd be there. And every time I triggered the gun, there they were, just about perfectly lined up. It was SO cool, to get that immediate, positive feedback, that, "Oh wow, they ARE lined up," every time I pulled the trigger.

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Pretty cool huh...we've shot the odd night match up here and I've noticed the same thing, your index and position returns the gun to target (you have to trust this) then you confirm the hit with the flash sight picture as the sights are visible in the muzzle flash. Teaches to trust in your index.

Also the realization that the night sights become useless after the first shot, with any kind of speed, I've never been a big fan of night sights, a Sure Fire flashlight is a much better tool.

Pat

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Yeah, I agree about the relative merits of the Sure-Fire vs. night sights for shooting. I do like having night sights on a defense gun though, but it's mostly not for shooting. I consider the night sights more "gun locator dots."

There've only been three times in my life I've had a gun in my hand when I was REALLY glad it was there. In only one of those did I actually wind up having to point it at anyone, no shots fired in any of the incidents. But, and here's the thing, thinking about it afterwards, I've realized all those situations had one thing in common: in all three cases I was woken out of a sound sleep in near-total darkness, and had to just grab the gun and go. What I really like about night sights is they make it easy to grab your gun in the dark. Just find the two glowing dots on the rear sight and they kind of suck your hand right into the grip like landing lights drawing a plane to the ground.

BTW I have an article on "Sure-Fire Flashlights: the Tactical Choice" coming out in The Blue Press in the very near future. Plug, plug. I talk about all this more in detail there.

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While practicing the mag changes with eyes closed or in the dark, I think your minds eye would see how the mag changes were done with locator dots that brought your eyes right to how you wanted to do the mag changes right, and then make your body do it.

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Duane,

I know we shouldn't excessively drift the thread into *defensive* territory, but in those three cases, why didn't you switch on the lights? I have pondered (but never encountered) such scenarios as you describe, and come to the conclusion that I'd rather face some adversary with lights on than off, even in my own house. But I'm sure you have given this deeper thought than me...

--Detlef

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Maybe not deeper, but this a matter I've given some thought. And I agree with you. I've been to "Low Light" training classes where they train you to use your flashlight during house clearings in bursts, because if you use it for long your opponent can just zero in on the light. But see, once you turn the light off they'll just start shooting where the light was, so you're supposed to use your second's worth of light to find another point of cover, and when the light goes out instantly move to that point.

What horsehit. This is hard enough to do on an open range. Can you imagine trying the "run as fast as you can to cover" approach in an unfamiliar area that actually has some real obstacles on it? You're gonna run right into a coffee table and break your leg. Personally I figure the primary virtue of my Sure-Fire 6Z in a situation like that is it's going to allow me to find a light switch so I can turn it on. Screw this running around in the dark stuff.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Wheew, you guys were starting to scare me!

With my new timer, dry firing at home, I am getting consistant 1.30's.  Thank-goodness!  I figured I'd be in the two second range.....

I suppose the real test will be with REAL ammo

I'm setting a par time on the timer at 1.30sec.  When the first beeep happens I start my reload and try to get the next (aimed dry-fire) shot off by the time the beeeep happens.  I'm usually right on it......+/-

Damn this is fun...I am actually now *beating* a 1.20sec par-time!! rocking.gif

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  • 6 months later...

TDean, that's how I have been dry-fire practicing reloads. But I had to add my reaction time to my par time because I'm waiting for the buzzer to begin the reload instead of calling the live-fired shot to begin the reload.

You must be hellafast on your reloads and/or have a quick reaction.

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I've been working on my reloads and draws in dry fire a lot for the past couple of weeks and its really starting to show.  My best time yesterday in practice on a 12" plate at 12 yards was:

1.08 draw

1.08 reload

Felt really good.  Then I started "trying" to beat it and slowed back down to 1.15ish on the draw and 1.3 on the reloads.  Have to learn to let it happen .. if that can in fact be learned!

BradC

A46143

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All right, along with your determining what type of pistol, wide body or ss, and your class, put in how old you are.

I stopped shooting IPSC in '86, but could shoot pretty well heads up with everyone in Texas, including Chip McCormick and John Dixon.   Yea, I know, I am a dynasaur, and shot when they did not have national classes.   I am now a 3 gun Master IDPA shooter,(no comparison to IPSC). over 50 and still do a standing reload with a singlestack in 1.1.

Consistently do a tac load in 1.90, have it one as fast as 1.5, but only a couple.

How fast do you think Mr. Revolver can reload, Jerry M?

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  • 5 weeks later...

A drill my friend taught me, about 2 years ago, was

set 4 targets 7 yards out 1yd apart..

set timer at 11 or so seconds to start..

draw  shoot 1 shot on t1 reload

      shoot 1 shot on t1 2 shots on t2 reload

      shoot 1 shot on t1 2 shots on t2 3 shots on t2 reload

      shoot 1 shot on t1 3 shots on t2 3 shots on t3

      3 shots on t4.. should wind up with 4 A Soth on

      each target.. has anyone shot this kind of drill

      and what is a good time..

       john

 

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