USPSA Revolver Division Rule Change

[ysrracer]

5 hours ago, revoman said:

I have seen you shoot. Maybe you should try optics. ✌

 

Ouch baby, very ouch

[Robert357]

I like iron sights only for myself. Tried other guys’ bottom feeder guns with optics and just don’t like optics and bottom feeder guns for that matter. But if having optics would interest others to shoot uspsa revo, I think it’s fine.  It would be nice to have more participants.  At my local club for uspsa I am generally the only revo 627 minor shooter. I like it whenever someone shows up to shoot revo for some company. Our SC matches another guy shoots 929 with optics and always try to squad together for friendly fun and competition. 

[louu]

Are we talking to make 2 separate revolver divisions or having optics in with iron guys? 

[gargoil66]

22 minutes ago, louu said:

Are we talking to make 2 separate revolver divisions or having optics in with iron guys? 

Lou:

 

I think it goes unsaid that if dot sights are allowed on revolvers then they should be in their own division.  It would be grossly unfair to guys using irons to compete against guys with dots.  

 

GG

[pskys2]

5 hours ago, louu said:

Are we talking to make 2 separate revolver divisions or having optics in with iron guys? 

Optics with irons in revolver division.  the uspsa rules committee is looking to put out a survey on whether optics will be allowed in revolver division.  There is no talk at this time to add, or eliminate, any divisions.

Optics would be an option but not mandatory, by the rules, in revolver division.

[gargoil66]

6 hours ago, pskys2 said:

Optics with irons in revolver division.  the uspsa rules committee is looking to put out a survey on whether optics will be allowed in revolver division.  There is no talk at this time to add, or eliminate, any divisions.

Optics would be an option but not mandatory, by the rules, in revolver division.

Pk:

 

Have you seen the question being presented by the USPSA?

 

If so, is the USPSA also saying that "optics would be an option and not mandatory"?

 

Won't change my mind on the issue so just asking.

 

GG

[MikeyScuba]

No Americans are shooting IPSC in Canada.  We have the “black badge” certification rule, though i know a few have attended L3’s in a past.  Given they sell out quick, its  not easy to get a spot.

 

We shoot revo in 8 shot minor or 6 shot major.  I’m not sure I have seen anyone shoot 6 shot revo major.  Maybe one guy but he can’t shoot and doesn’t anymore due to poor health.

 

And anyone who shoots IPSC revo has a dot gun or knows someone who could lend them one.  Or for a few hundred, slap one one on an existing gun.

 

as for expensive, try open.  The mags alone are big bucks (you’ll need 6 up here)

[driver8M3]

The questions that will be put to the membership have not yet been determined. Feel free to post your proposed questions here. I'll make sure the Rules Committee has a chance to review them.

 

It's likely that it would be easier to allow optics or irons than to add a new Division. But that would be a Board decision.

[pskys2]

2 hours ago, gargoil66 said:

Pk:

 

Have you seen the question being presented by the USPSA?

 

If so, is the USPSA also saying that "optics would be an option and not mandatory"?

 

Won't change my mind on the issue so just asking.

 

GG

That was what was talked about on the livestream, I sat through 10 hours to finally hear it.

 

Though driver8m3 is the ad who brought it up, so I would defer to him for accurate information.

Edited January 28 by pskys2

[pskys2]

1 hour ago, driver8M3 said:

The questions that will be put to the membership have not yet been determined. Feel free to post your proposed questions here. I'll make sure the Rules Committee has a chance to review them.

 

It's likely that it would be easier to allow optics or irons than to add a new Division. But that would be a Board decision.

Me thinks a few extra pages have just been added to this thread.

[Joe4d]

 comps are pretty meaningless on a 627  shooting mousefart loads,,, And switching back and forth for someone of a level in the sport that they are traveling internationally probably wouldnt be a big deal...  I mean a hand ful of practice sessions and done. 
As optics and mounts get more popular, I am starting to see many at the ICORE match I shoot.
@pskys2, up above could probably give you the break down..

What was the numbers for irons, VS optics this year ?   although it doesnt look like many of us shoot USPSA. 
I am on the fence between running my iron sight 7 shot, or optic 22 this year. 

[testosterone]

On 1/25/2024 at 6:58 PM, Bill Sahlberg said:

This would create another revolver division and we already are the smallest USPSA shooting division...

 

Iron Sight (Ltd Revo)

Optics (Open Revo)

The discussion in the bod meeting did not go this far, the way it was presented was just allow optics without any discussion about a new division.   It would make it defacto optics though...

[Joe4d]

for me this is like all the siliness about trriggers in CO/ creating limited optics...
It doesnt matter in USPSA,, revolver is a reloading/running contest.. the accuracy advantage in a game that barely rewards accuracy, gained by a dot will be negligible on the score board.
The revolver guy with the best stage plan, best 4-5 reloads, and best movement while shooting marginally ok will win.  Sorta like why everyone hates 3 gun shotgun which became a reloading contest vs shooting contest.

Its not like open or limited, where you might have 1 reload and many stages there are none, plus once you get to about C level ,  the worst reloader and the best is probably only a second apart. In that case ?  the small accuracy advantage would be a bigger part of the score.

If optics are allowed in revolver, yeh people will use them for the slight advantage,,, but I doubt their scores improve all that much. Its not like ICore which is adding whole seconds to your time, or subtracting them for X rings.
 

[RobW]

I'm all for dots in any/all divisions for purely selfish reasons. I'm blind as a bat although I do occasionally get stubborn and shoot my limited or SS rigs. It never lasts, I can't see WTF I am doing. If optics are legal in Revo, I'll get classified for sure.

[KellyB]

22 hours ago, driver8M3 said:

The questions that will be put to the membership have not yet been determined. Feel free to post your proposed questions here. I'll make sure the Rules Committee has a chance to review them.

 

It's likely that it would be easier to allow optics or irons than to add a new Division. But that would be a Board decision.

1. A request more than a question, please mirror whatever the change is to be in alignment of IPSC rules. This way USPSA can send a prepared revolver team to the World Shoot. 
2. Many revolvers with a red dot have comps or ports. Is the rules committee considering allowing comps & ports on the red dot revolvers?

[ysrracer]

23 minutes ago, KellyB said:

1. A request more than a question, please mirror whatever the change is to be in alignment of IPSC rules. This way USPSA can send a prepared revolver team to the World Shoot. 
2. Many revolvers with a red dot have comps or ports. Is the rules committee considering allowing comps & ports on the red dot revolvers?

 

Makes sense to me.

[IVC]

A rule change in the past killed 625 in favor of 929. Now adding a dot might do the same for irons, but that's natural evolution, much like C/O killed production and L/O is likely to kill limited.

 

Ideally, there would be two Revo divisions, much like there are in centerfire Steel Challenge. So what if it's low participation? And if it's a single division, without looking into history and legacy, allowing Revo Open would be the natural choice. 
 

I have two 929s, iron and dot, and I sometimes shoot 929/Optics/Comp against semi autos at outlaw matches. No biggie. Oh, and the comp doesn't do anything except making the two 929s not fit the same DAA muzzle support for my RaceMaster. 

[ysrracer]

1 minute ago, IVC said:

A rule change in the past killed 625 in favor of 929...

 

..... Oh, and the comp doesn't do anything except making the two 929s not fit the same DAA muzzle support for my RaceMaster. 

 

And video killed the radio star.

 

The factory chimp is useless. I had my barrel cut to five inches.

 

[Carmoney]

If optics are allowed, I will probably continue to run iron sights.  I don't think it will change things a whole lot.  I will still lose to the same people who can beat me now.  And I will still win against the shooters I can currently beat.  

 

I predict that allowing optics will not make Revo a de facto optics division.  Here's why:

 

Optics are an advantage on longer shots or technically demanding shots.  And they are helpful when the pace is slower and the scoring area tighter.  **Like in ICORE!!**

 

On the other hand, USPSA shooting is, by its nature, way faster than ICORE and the scoring system is more forgiving to shooting that is somewhat less precise.  Also--unlike the various hi-cap USPSA divisions, revolver shooters will have to reaquire the dot every 8 shots.  Not easy, especially for those who switch hands every reload. 

 

Personally, I'll take irons over optics for the USPSA matches I shoot--at least for now.  That said, I voted yes in the poll, because I think allowing optics might bring additional wheels into the division, and because optics might help those with aging eyes stay more competitive and keep shooting longer.

 

 

Edited January 29 by Carmoney

[PatJones]

As noted above, if dot's are allowed they are basically required.

 

Please stop adding dot's to -all- of the divisions. We're getting back to where things were when folks left to create IDPA. Shoot your dot-equipped revo in open, the 2 other revolver shooters will know to look for you in the overall.

 

Between the belt and an 8-shot revo, it's already a couple grand to dabble in our division. USPSA needs to stop fooling with the divisions and let things settle out. People will come back to their old divisions when they get bored with their new toys.

 

Edited February 5 by PatJones
Spelling

[matteekay]

So... Lots of chatter here. Forgive me for not reading all of it.

 

Did USPSA actually change anything?

 

Or even propose to?

Edited February 5 by matteekay

[driver8M3]

8 hours ago, matteekay said:

So... Lots of chatter here. Forgive me for not reading all of it.

 

Did USPSA actually change anything?

 

Or even propose to?

 

Changing Division rules is a long process. The Board will use 2024 to gather member feedback. The earliest any change could take effect would be January of 2025.

[matteekay]

54 minutes ago, driver8M3 said:

 

Changing Division rules is a long process. The Board will use 2024 to gather member feedback. The earliest any change could take effect would be January of 2025.

 

Did they say that they were going to start the process?

[pskys2]

2 hours ago, matteekay said:

 

Did they say that they were going to start the process?

Yes, the rules committee is formulating a poll.  The uspsa bod rules committee chairman is following this thread, driver8M3.

Edited February 5 by pskys2

[matteekay]

1 hour ago, pskys2 said:

Yes, the rules committee is formulating a poll.  The uspsa bod rules committee chairman is following this thread, driver8M3.

 

Aaah, his reply makes a lot more sense now. Thank you!