What is a ideal zero for uspsa and 3 gun?

[JoeInTucson]

What handgun zero distance is most commonly used in these sports?

[barry]

Many people will tell you 15yds as most targets are close but I always zero at 50 yds or longest range available. 

[ColoradoNick]

39 minutes ago, barry said:

Many people will tell you 15yds as most targets are close but I always zero at 50 yds or longest range available. 

Why would you zero at 50 yards for USPSA?! What's your POA at 3 yards then? Open shooter?

 

I zero at 15 yards and don't have to worry about any shift in POA/POI out to at least 25 yards. In 60 matches last year I don't think a single one had targets past 25 yards. 

Edited January 16 by ColoradoNick

[jcc7x7]

17 yds - poi=poa doens't move but an inch or so 1=35 yds.

[dapribek]

50 ft

[Dr Mitch]

20 yards

[RJH]

Bout 25 for my 3 gun pistol

 

And 20 ish for USPSA. 

 

Both are limited optic legal

[42ATK]

I do 25 for pistol calibers (9mm & 22LR) and 50 for rifle (556)

[ddc]

Find a calculator and punch in your own numbers for velocity, weight, coefficient, etc.

Try several zeros, 10,15,20 yards or farther.

Check out for the near zero and the far zero.

Pick what makes sense.

 

I use this one but there are others https://shooterscalculator.com/ballistic-trajectory-chart.php

[IVC]

You don't zero at the "distance you'll shoot at." You zero at the distance that gives you the maximum point-blank range. What you want to have is no holdovers at any practical distance, that's about it. 

 

For pistols, the most common mistake is to zero at close range, say 10 yards. Even 15 is pushing it. Because of the sights offset, particularly with optics, if you zero at 10 yards you'll be 4x the offset high at 50 yards. And there is no benefit - if you zero at 25 (or even 50), you have no holdover at 10/15 and you're set for *all* distances. You might be 1/2" low at 10, but in exchange you can shoot any distance by pointing and shooting. 

 

For rifles you have a bit more decision to make. This is because rifles are normally used for larger distances and you have to decide how you want to use it. In a typical *combat* match, you'll pick something that works for the types of matches you shoot. The usual 50/200 is great for anything within 300 yards, but you'll be high at 100 and that's the distance that is often used in matches because of the bay limitations. If you need to be closer at 100, you might want to pick a different zero. As pointed above, use a calculator and figure out which zero works for your rifle and your matches. 

 

For rifles, and outside 200-300 yards, you should have your DOPE table and either dial it in, or use the correct tick in the reticle. In fact, if you know your DOPE (and you should), you can dial in ANY zero combination at any time. 

 

My personal distances are: pistols 25 yards, PCC 50 yards, ARs 75/150 (for the load that I use and just one type of AR match that I shoot). 

[barry]

If zeroed at 50 the bullet pretty much hits inside Dia. of dot at all distances. 

At 3 yds it may be 1/2" inch low but I've never shot at targets the size of quarters.  Don't know about you but at 3 yards I'm not really aiming that precisely. 

[lgh]

I use this one but there are others https://shooterscalculator.com/ballistic-trajectory-chart.php

 

Just run the ballistics like ddc said. You can figure out the best zero from the tables/graphs.

[ddc]

People poo-poo a ten yard zero but perhaps it isn't really all that bad.

 

According to the previously indicated calculator using a G1 of .170 for a 124 FMJ at 1070 when near zeroed at 10 yards with a height over bore of .75":

1. far zero is 45 yards

2. 1" high at 26 yards

3. 1" low at 57 yards

 

This is just an FYI, I'm not claiming it is an ideal solution. 

 

It is interesting to run the numbers using different height over bore numbers.

The results differ more than you might expect.

 

 

Edited January 18 by ddc

[IVC]

On 1/17/2024 at 6:30 PM, ddc said:

People poo-poo a ten yard zero but perhaps it isn't really all that bad.

Your assumption is that you're getting an exact zero at 10 yards, which fails to account for an inch or so you could be off in either direction. The best test is to take a gun sighted in at 10 yards, shoot off of bench at 25 or more yards and look at windage - you'll see how quickly "not being exactly at the center" propagates. Now consider that you have similar error in elevation at 10 yards, and you might become more critical of the 10 yard zero :-).

 

Remember, every inch you're off at 10 yards becomes 2.5" at 25 yards, which is in addition to the bullet path offset due to the barrel pointing slightly up. When you combine the two, to get a good hit on a 6" plate at 25 yards you would pretty much have to be dead center with your aim, which makes that target *much* harder than it needs to be. 

[ddc]

3 hours ago, IVC said:

Your assumption is that you're getting an exact zero at 10 yards, which fails to account for an inch or so you could be off in either direction. The best test is to take a gun sighted in at 10 yards, shoot off of bench at 25 or more yards and look at windage - you'll see how quickly "not being exactly at the center" propagates. Now consider that you have similar error in elevation at 10 yards, and you might become more critical of the 10 yard zero :-).

 

Remember, every inch you're off at 10 yards becomes 2.5" at 25 yards, which is in addition to the bullet path offset due to the barrel pointing slightly up. When you combine the two, to get a good hit on a 6" plate at 25 yards you would pretty much have to be dead center with your aim, which makes that target *much* harder than it needs to be. 

 

I'm not making any assumptions.

I'm simply reporting the mathematical results of a ballistics program and noting that they imply that a 10 yard zero is not necessarily the end of the world.

 

Note the words:  "This is just an FYI, I'm not claiming it is an ideal solution."

 

Anybody with half a brain and a couple matches of experience is going to confirm their hits at longer distances.

 

 

[Nathan1984]

Typically, I zero pistol at 10. The difference is negligible, it is not a rifle. 

[bootcamp]

We zero at 15 yds for uspsa.  May experiment with 20yds soon

[pjb45]

Well Joe,

If you shoot Rio Salado 3G then you know targets can go to 600 yds+ - rarely.

However plenty of 350-500 yrd targets plus 10 yard targets for rifles.

So know your dope is critical regardless of a FFP or SFP scope.

You need to chrono your ammo.  Remember you can lose up to 200fps per 1 inch decrease in barrel length.

That might not be a big deal out to 150 yrds but at 400 yrd??????

 

I use a 100 yrd zero with ballistic programs and chrono.  Then confirmed the ballistics. But I am a duffer.

 

Pistol sighted in at 15 works for me.

Know your zero.  We had a match with 4 inch plates at 15+ yrds.  Very Chanllenging.

 

 

[Pizzim]

I’ve had people say 15, 20 and 25 yards … after trying them all I like the 15yard the best.

[shred]

Bunch of people crying at CO Nats when they saw partial NS targets at 35 yards... No matter were you choose to zero, you need to know where you're hitting out to 50.

 

[Laughing_jackal]

I used to not think it made that much of a difference to zero at 10 or 15, and that's what I did... But after shooting the Colorado State Championship last weekend, I found I was hitting very high at the distant targets (35yd mini poppers for example).  Once I got home, I Zeroed at 25.  I shot a match yesterday and I feel like things are much better now. I'm now a believer in at least a 25yd zero.

[IVC]

On 8/3/2024 at 11:05 AM, Pizzim said:

I’ve had people say 15, 20 and 25 yards … after trying them all I like the 15yard the best.

Remember that you will have error in your zeroing, so "zero at X" is actually "zero+-delta at X." This error will propagate and make things quite a bit worse than the theoretical perfect "zero at X" would. 

 

Just for fun, shoot your pistol at 50 yards and record the windage instead of just elevation. You'll see the problem quickly. And this windage error is completely unnecessary to carry around in your sights since you can all but eliminate it by checking it at large distance. 

[IVC]

On 8/3/2024 at 2:28 PM, shred said:

Bunch of people crying at CO Nats when they saw partial NS targets at 35 yards... No matter were you choose to zero, you need to know where you're hitting out to 50.

 

And not just where you're "theoretically hitting," but the actual hitting - both windage and elevation errors will propagate with distance, which is in addition to the theoretical issues with "barrel up" angle. 

 

I've seen people get really surprised that they start missing left/right small targets at distance when they swear they sighted it in and "it's perfect at 10-15 yards." 

[CHA-LEE]

I prefer a 25 yard zero then verify windage at 50 yards. I also check my zero regularly on all of my Red Dot guns.

 

Its honestly shocking how many Competition Shooters only check their zero after they can't hit what they want during a match. Proactively check your gun & gear before they cause issues during a match. The gun games are hard enough as it is without battling your equipment at the same time.

[Bigzona]

On 8/4/2024 at 12:59 PM, Laughing_jackal said:

I used to not think it made that much of a difference to zero at 10 or 15, and that's what I did... But after shooting the Colorado State Championship last weekend, I found I was hitting very high at the distant targets (35yd mini poppers for example).  Once I got home, I Zeroed at 25.  I shot a match yesterday and I feel like things are much better now. I'm now a believer in at least a 25yd zero.

 I'm a recent convert to 25yards as well for similar reasons. I do think the bottom line as stated before is understanding your holds at various distances. A major match isn't a good time to figure that out.