Where would you Zero

[Racinready300ex]

I don't really rifle, but I have shot a season of PCC in USPSA. A local club to me is doing outlaw AR matches I want to compete in. Trying to decide how to zero a 223 for this. 

 

So one bay is a really wide rifle range, probably 50 yards wide, 25 of it has a berm at 50 and the other half is 100. So max distance at the match is 100 yards. Currently the other bay is only 25x20. Stages are USPSA style typically. So if they do 2 stages, 50% of my score comes from the small bay, and if they do two on the rifle range the small bay is still 30%. Even on the rifle range it's likely most shots will be 25 or less. The last one I shot with my pcc had 3 steel at 60 yards, and one open paper at 40 maybe depending where you shot it from. Then two at maybe 20-25 and everything else was closer. 

 

USPSA targets, hit factor scoring. 

 

With everything so close I'm just going to run a red dot. I'm thinking the zero distance might not even matter. 

 

What distance would you zero at for this? 

[Old3GNR]

At that range, you can't go wrong with a 100 yd zero.

[kurtm]

I would zero at the range. If you zero in a parking lot folks are going to jump!

Yes for that range 100 yard zero makes sense! 

[Muricanwerewolf]

I prefer to zero 223 with a red dot at 50 just because it's easier to see the target, and generally speaking that means I'll put the dot on the target for everything out to a little past 200. In this case if I were shooting very small steel at 100 I'd know my hold is 2" low.

 

However, if you zero at 100 your hold at 50 is like .5" high. So for this match, it probably makes the most sense to zero at 100, since you will know exactly where your rifle is hitting if they put small steel at 100 and you're gonna be basically POA/POI for everything at that range.

 

This is all assuming there's actually going to be some positional shooting at this match, and it's not all just freestyle like a USPSA match. If it's the latter the targets are gonna be generous enough it doesn't really matter.

[Racinready300ex]

Thanks everyone for the input. 

 

On 10/13/2023 at 10:04 PM, Muricanwerewolf said:

This is all assuming there's actually going to be some positional shooting at this match, and it's not all just freestyle like a USPSA match. If it's the latter the targets are gonna be generous enough it doesn't really matter.

 

It is currently uspsa style and I don't really expect that to change. I do expect they'll slowly increase the difficulty of the shooting. And may put smaller steel out at 100 but likely give shooters a barricade to use for support. I'm not 100% sure the direction it'll go TBH. 

 

It's a small club and half the entry fee's go to the winners, so I might as well give it a shot lol. 

[kurtm]

Positional shooting? What does that mean, and why would it make any difference in your zero? Is a USPSA zero different than a positional zero? 

[shred]

Club match?  Everything out past easy walking distance is going to be static steel, because reset time?   Unless they've got tiny steel your hardest shots are likely to be hold-overs on close paper partials.

 

 

[pjb45]

Don't listen to KM listen to his evil brother instead :.

At SMM3G we have targets out past 400 yds and have to shoot the hanging clays at 5 yrds.---no applicable in your shooting. but if they use golf balls or clays i will repeat one of KM's mantras: Know Your Zero!

Those Miller boys know their zero.

 

[Onagoth]

I always zero at 50/200

 

that covers me out to nearly 300 years with a dead on hold

[kurtm]

Well all this manly talk of where we zero with all these yardages thrown in are way over my head...... I usually zero the stages, but I know where my rifle hits

I am the outlier here and run a 300 yard zero because it makes the most sense for irons. Remember, "there is magic in optical sights that I don't understand.... therefore they are evil" to quote myself

 

[IVC]

Get an app such as StrelokPro or similar, measure the height over bore of your optics, measure the muzzle velocity, look up ballistics of your bullet and plug it in. You can plug in different zero and get corrections at any distance at a glance, without having to fire a shot. It won't be exact, but it will be very close, especially for the distances you're looking at. 
 

When you find combo that looks good,  confirm it in the field and you'll have an excellent DOPE table. For your distance, it's almost certainly going to be a 100 yard zero that is optimal, but you'll also know how much you're off at every distance. It's likely going to be such a small offset that it will be less than your optics can discern.   
 

I had a similar problem, shooting a local (static) 2 gun outlaw match that goes to 150. There is one prone stage at 150, usually with a bonus target that is 3" steel (2 MOA). With the combat accuracy rifle and ammo, you want to know within an inch where your POI is. So I found out by playing in the app that I can have 75/150 zero with less than 1" high at 100, and I now have a point blank rifle for this match. If I shoot further out, I have the DOPE table and can hold over easily. For anything within 150 I'm set. 

[mandiesel]

Would you be shooting "just a dot" as in an aimpoint or something like an eotech?

 

Also would be interesting to know your height over bore.  I typically go with a 100yard zero and know for anything "close" i know how much i need to aim high.

 

Interesting video about the 36 yard zero... as well as a good representation of the spread at distance of other zero distances. 

https://shawnryanshow.com/blogs/vigilance-elite-blogs/36-yard-zero

[usmc1974]

I use sterlok pro, this is my holosun 510 c green 2 moa Dot, zeroed at 25 yards.

[Guy Neill]

If we take the Hornady 55gr Hornady FMJBT at a muzzle velocity of 3,100 fps, and a line of sight 2.0" above the bore, the bullet will never rise above the line of sight for a 100yd zero. It will be an inch or so low within 30yds but if you're shooting for the "A" zone that should not be critical.

 

[emjbe]

On 10/23/2023 at 11:15 AM, IVC said:

Get an app such as StrelokPro or similar,<snip>

 

Strelok got banned by USG because the app lives in Russia.

Chairgun Elite is a similar app ... it's so similar i wouldn't be surprised if it's the same author.

 

 

[arcsign]

A little late on this, but you can also use Strelok or similar to get a figure for “maximum point-blank range”.
 

Basically put in the rifle info, define the maximum diameter you need all of the shots within… and it’ll give you a zero distance so that all rounds will be above or below point of aim by 1/2 diameter supplied, as well as a distance within which that remains true. Usually used for hunting, I think, but could be useful for your application as well. 
 

There are some limits on how small the target circle can be, iirc one is related to height over bore…

[Joe4d]

10 hours ago, arcsign said:

A little late on this, but you can also use Strelok or similar to get a figure for “maximum point-blank range”.
 

Basically put in the rifle info, define the maximum diameter you need all of the shots within… and it’ll give you a zero distance so that all rounds will be above or below point of aim by 1/2 diameter supplied, as well as a distance within which that remains true. Usually used for hunting, I think, but could be useful for your application as well. 
 

There are some limits on how small the target circle can be, iirc one is related to height over bore…

agreed basic PBR calculators are everywhere... Pick a bullet with its BC, its velocity, how high your red dot is, and how much error you can tolerate.. (target size)
For the OP.. typical 55 gr load,,  4/10th inch high at 100 yards will put you within an inch at any of his distances.

[Kravi]

I'm a universal 100m zero kinda guy. I do both my red dots and my lpvos at 100m. I'm either on target or have a bit of a hold over, but I'm never low. Zero issues at close ranges just holding the red dot a wee bit higher than I want the round to go, and otherwise it just doesn't really matter. But when I stretch it out past 100 (my local 2gun matches have a stage that goes out to 300) I find the 100m zero is waaaaay more effective than a 50. Dead on at 100. Round hits a couple of inches low at 200 (who cares), and about a foot and a half low (maybe a bit less) at 300. Easy to remember, easy to guestimate. And all my rifles, red dot or lpvo end up with the same easy holds (more or less).

 

Obviously if you were a precision shooter, things would be very different.

[pjb45]

I know people who shoot very well and all have their own philosophy on the zero distance.

 

Personally, 100 yrd zero,  chrono, and a good ballistic app are keys.

 

My red dot on the 45 degree off set is set at 15 yrds due to techinical shots at close range (center of clay birds).