Open Mags

[ong45]

While dryfiring today, i was getting frustrated with occational blown reload with the big stick.

Why not just toss all the 140's and go with 170's all the way? Maybe keep a short mag for going prone.

Anyone think this would help consistency in the long run?

James

[Ben Stoeger]

I'm not an open shooter..... BUT. I have always wondered about this issue with the open guys. If I shot open, I don't see why I would ever reload to anything but a Big stick or a little stick. I would pick one, and use it exclusivly.

I start to blow reloads if I use mags that have a different finish on them for Pete's sake. A differnt lenght? Fuggitaboutit.

Later,

Ben

[JFD]

Just an observation, and maybe a stupid one at that, but I don't think I've ever seen an Open shooter reload to a big stick.

They all seem to start with the big stick and reload to a 140. I've been shooting Limited for a year and haven't had to reload more than once (other than mandatory reload classifiers), so I'd figure NOT practicing 170 mag reloads (and NOT reloading to a 170 at a match) would solve your problem without trashing any mags.

Now I'll step back and see what shooters from the dark side have to say... (they might actually know what they're talking about )

[BritinUSA]

If you exclusively use 170mm magazines then there may be some issues:

1. Cost being the first one, 170mm mags are very expensive

2. A fully loaded 170mm mag may not be held too securely by a mag pouch so you may want to test that.

3. Usually a big stick is used at the start of a large stage and then reload into a 140mm mag (if required). There are some cases where it is better to reload into a big stick, they usually happen on the move so speed of reload is not a big issue. If your reload into a 170mm mag is a tad slower then I would not worry about it, as stated above, the only time you will load into a big stick is during a large field course and the movement negates the need for blindingly fast reloads.

[George]

All 170's, all the time. There is no other way IMHO. It's OPEN dammint, why bother with less ;-)

[Loves2Shoot]

Since I fart around in different classes it wouldn't work for me, and I just can't reload a big stick as fast as I can with a shorter mag. There just isn't many courses that having mulitiple big sticks (56-59 rounds) is really needed IMO. If you can't start with 28-30 rounds and find somewhere to reload another 20 in a step...

I don't like the floppy feel of having a 170 on the belt either, they tend to fall out at the wrong time, but if you put your mind to it, you could make it work for you

[AlamoShooter]

James

I think you would give up speed due to extra 'wind drag' ,You are so fast that the extra mag hanging down would slow your transitions down ,some.,,,

And just how silly would it look at steel challenge? 170 mag for five targets,?

Sorry acting like my self again

Jamie

[L9X25]

I exclusively shoot Open and have about 5 of each type in my shooting bag. I prefer the “feel” of the gun with 140 mags but will use 170s when there is an advantage. On some occasions I have used all 170 mags to give me the flexibility to change my plan on the move.

All of my 140 mags have extended base pads that make them less than 1” shorter than a 170mm mag (.9” to be exact). I can reload either mag easily, although the 140s feel slightly faster, likely because they are lighter. As mentioned before, on a field course reloads are usually free and an extra .1 second on the reload should be meaningless. On a speed-shoot the .1 would make a difference on the clock and I would use the 140s. The only way that I can see a .9” longer mag becoming a serious problem is if your reloading mechanics only align the magazine within 1” of entering the gun. Correcting this flaw should not be a major problem.

I use “old school” Safariland mag pouches that hold 170s perfectly, even after going prone.

[outerlimits]

james-i've shot with you long enuf to know that yer reloads don't really matter. the only time i use more than 1 big stick is so rare that i can't remember. oh yea, i didi grab a beta mag recently...

[Front Man]

I have an old 170 that had to be recut and rewelded for my Caspian.

It now holds 26 and is pretty easy to reload after shooting my full length 170 which can hold 29.

I only load it to 28 though.

Dry fire reloads would cure any 170 issues sooner or later I would think.

Four 140's, one 170 and one something in between ride in my bag.

I also like 170's from the holster for 50 yard standards.

JMHO

[ong45]

And just how silly would it look at steel challenge? 170 mag for five targets,?

Sorry acting like my self again

Jamie

Hah, sometimes i need the capacity

James

I don't like the floppy feel of having a 170 on the belt either, they tend to fall out at the wrong time, but if you put your mind to it, you could make it work for you

What about downloading to 23-25 if the capacity is not needed?

James

[spook]

James, I have always wondered about that myself. Why would Open shooters use different kinds of magazines? The only reasons I can think of are cost and reliability. If you have the money and the mags are 100% reliable, I'd go for 170mm all the way

[ong45]

James, I have always wondered about that myself. Why would Open shooters use different kinds of magazines? The only reasons I can think of are cost and reliability. If you have the money and the mags are 100% reliable, I'd go for 170mm all the way

After paying to have the mags tuned etc. the cost is negligible.

Just like trying to save a few bucks by going 9mm ( ducking the 9mm bullet flames )

James

[XRe]

In the past, another argument against would have been the relatively reliability of the 170s vs. shorter mags. In fact, Todd Jarrett almost never used a 170 for the longest time, as he apparently didn't trust it. Instead, he developed his reloads to the point where there was only an advantage for him to use a 170 under very specific conditions (and he did use one, then).

Nowadays, with the advent of better springs, etc - and paying $100 extra to tune the mag - maybe that's not so much of an issue...

I find I reload 140s better, and the gun moves better. There's less hanging out to get caught/stuck on things, etc. As others have said, just practice with 'em and you'll get used to either length. Borrow a couple and try it out with all 170s once, and see what happens....

[Loves2Shoot]

And just how silly would it look at steel challenge? 170 mag for five targets,?

Sorry acting like my self again

Jamie

Hah, sometimes i need the capacity

James

I don't like the floppy feel of having a 170 on the belt either, they tend to fall out at the wrong time, but if you put your mind to it, you could make it work for you

What about downloading to 23-25 if the capacity is not needed?

James

Downloading might help, but then I, forget which one I downladed. I carry 140 with a standard base pad for reloads and start with a 140 with based pads or a 170 for a 24-25 round stage. I have enough mags to do what I wish, but I find the shorter mags carry better when running fast. I've gotten away from a mag on the belly button too and am doing the IPSC style reload, which seems to be just as fast

[BSeevers]

I like to call 140's "real" reloading since those skills transfer to all other guns and reloading to a big stick "gaming reloading" I work on it but never expect it to be as fast or easy, since almost always you are moving to a position when reloading a 170 so you don't need your max reload speed like a standard exercise does.

According to a name pistolsmith reloading big sticks is how I cracked my last grip. He said the full big stick pushes too hard on the mag catch. Not sure about that, but the grip did crack about 3 months after I got my wizbang tuned 170.

I have found I have been reloading to a big stick, a lot lately in matches, as well as practice.

[Dream]

Roll with the 170's

[Singlestack]

I don't like loading to a 170 and I only do so if moving. I don't like the way they feel in my hand and the length is an issue too. I hold the 140 in my hand so the end of the mag is just past my finger tips and I can't hold a 170 like that. Whats easier: sticking your finger in a hole or sticking a stick in a hole?

I don't like them on my belt much either.

[shred]

Too easy to fling 170's out of a belt pouch at the wrong time. Nearly zeroed a stage at Area 2 one year because of it. If I need to load to one, it goes in the securest pouch and I deal with the extra tenths to get it.

[eric nielsen]

I used to mag change to a 170 often when I had my Caspian. With my STI 38super, I can see now that the taper at the top of the S_I mag leaves a lot less mag in contact with the mag pouch. Feels very weird to "reholster" the mags after years of shooting Glocks, Caspian and EAA. Not crazy about putting the STI 170 into the front belly pouch.

When I did load to the 170, i just sorta hit the mag release and then floated the gun hand up a little higher than normal. At the same time I'd draw out the 170 mag and LOOK AT THE MAG, see it get turned around upright just in front of my nose. Then I'd glance up at the magwell from beneath & sorta lower the gun down onto the mag. Feels natural after some repetition.

BTW the reason I'd load to the 170 most often would be that I didn't like the other place where a mag change was do-able, if that place was running right-to-left. Now with the STI and a different belt rig I LOVE mag changing & running right-to-left, happens without thinking so I'll do 2 or 3 reps and then STOP, no point over-thinking it.

[38supPat]

I only use my big stick if the course of fire is 18 to 24 rounds and no reload is required, if a course is bigger and reloads required, I just stick with the 140's and plan out my reloads accordingly.

FWIW I shot the Area 1 a couple years back with TGO and he was shooting his Limited 10 single stack 6" gun....even after all the extra reloads his scores on most stages (hit factors) still beat the Limited scores, In fact I believe that the match director said at the end of the Match that had Robbie been scored Limited instead of Limited 10, he still would have won...and I think only the top 10 Open Shooters beat his score.

Bottom line, instead of worrying about which mag to use, try looking at your technique and see where the flaws are, I know I find new ones all the time.

[Nolan]

Big Stick all the way booyyeee! I use all 170's except when going prone. I've had all of them tuned, they run 100%, but I only load 28 unless I absolutely have to have that extra round. I haven't had any trouble with them coming out of the mag pouches, plus all that ammo counterbalances my supertanker open gun.

Nolan

[Jake Di Vita]

I don't understand why you would use exclusively 170s. Out of all the stages I shot this year, I reloaded to the big stick 3 times. I slowed it down a hair to make sure it didn't fumble, but if you are reloading correctly (ie. using visual cues) than it is not a big deal.

[Paladin]

you have to stay with the 170 just a tad longer to ensure properly seated..and sometimes they tend to feel awkward...

[Turtle]

Whats easier: sticking your finger in a hole or sticking a stick in a hole?

Easy there John, this is a family sport!

Let's face it, guns (especially Open Guns) are not 100% reliable under ALL circumstances. And because most of us love to figure things out, we analyze our equipment and try to find out what we can do to make our guns 100% reliable under CERTAIN circumstances. Then we modify our ammo and gear accordingly. If there's even the slightest chance that your gun is going to malfuction with your 170mm big stick, then you're not going to use it unless you have to. I know that nobody wants to admit it, but let's be honost, Open Guns malfunction and they tend to malfunction more with big sticks. Most of the time, as Jake stated, it's not even necessary to reload to the bigstick. Just my observations from attending a lot of matches and seeing what happens to the best of 'em.

Happy New Year All,

Todd

Edited January 1, 2006 by Turtle