Dutchman195 Posted September 12, 2023 Share Posted September 12, 2023 9 hours ago, IVC said: Just remember that YML is the runoff election for the president, dry-humping and all. What does that say about the members being serious about cleaning up the house and holding the management in check? Counter Point to that, Based on another point a few pages back. How many people actually know what happened. Yea the guys that care (us on here) know, or at least googled around enough to find out the general idea of what happened. But how many of the members, let alone those that voted, know what he did to get the boot, and then how it happened.... like us politics, you have a pretty good shot at winning just because your name comes up the most in conversation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BMSMB Posted September 12, 2023 Share Posted September 12, 2023 4 minutes ago, Dutchman195 said: Counter Point to that, Based on another point a few pages back. How many people actually know what happened. Yea the guys that care (us on here) know, or at least googled around enough to find out the general idea of what happened. But how many of the members, let alone those that voted, know what he did to get the boot, and then how it happened.... like us politics, you have a pretty good shot at winning just because your name comes up the most in conversation. It's odd that you say the people on here know what happened... as the way I understand the dry humping, it was between YML and a good friend, and they were playing around. The complaint to NROI was coaxed out by a 3rd party and the ROs making the complaint were basically told it was already happening and they just needed a statement. They've since rescinded any "complaints" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dutchman195 Posted September 12, 2023 Share Posted September 12, 2023 16 minutes ago, BMSMB said: It's odd that you say the people on here know what happened... To clarify, I mean they know more than the people at my local club that say: "oh thats weird...I just got an email for another presidential election" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racinready300ex Posted September 12, 2023 Share Posted September 12, 2023 22 minutes ago, Dutchman195 said: Counter Point to that, Based on another point a few pages back. How many people actually know what happened. Yea the guys that care (us on here) know, or at least googled around enough to find out the general idea of what happened. But how many of the members, let alone those that voted, know what he did to get the boot, and then how it happened.... like us politics, you have a pretty good shot at winning just because your name comes up the most in conversation. And the BOD made this situation worse. Possibly intentionally. Because they keep everything hush, hush and if you question it they can then say "well you don't know everything". My understanding is he was goofing around inappropriately with friends. Not something the president should do, but also pretty common at matches I attend. From there the formal complaint sounds like it was manufactured to get him out. Because there are different stories out there many people are voting for him and seeing as a way to show their discontent with leadership and the handling of the situation. Which story is accurate we can't really know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IVC Posted September 12, 2023 Share Posted September 12, 2023 1 hour ago, BMSMB said: It's odd that you say the people on here know what happened... 55 minutes ago, Racinready300ex said: And the BOD made this situation worse. Possibly intentionally. ... Which story is accurate we can't really know. This happened on the heels of a sexual harassment lawsuit, it was the president himself, it happened at a major match and we do know about both dry-humping and the inappropriate language (calling "deltas" "dicks" and maybe more). The remedy was from Troy at NROI, not from the BOD. And the BOD are the bad guys... Again. Right? They give a pass to a guy without discipline for inappropriate sexual language, the organization gets sued. They discipline a guy, the president no less, for inappropriate sexual language *and* conduct, some members call for their heads. They discipline another guy for leaking communication to hostile third parties, they get sued and we end up with this apologist thread. Well, which one is it? Discipline or try to burry it? I'll start. It was a bad mistake to let the first one slip, they should've acted and kicked the guy out. The other two are about right. They offered remedial action in the second case and that offer was rejected. The third case should allow for readmittance in the future, but that's still on the table. As for the role of the BOD, I would really like us to press them to clean up the technical issues, fire whoever messed up with the filings, make sure they hire people with basic competency to go through legal checklists. Do this and we can all go back to shooting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IVC Posted September 12, 2023 Share Posted September 12, 2023 1 hour ago, Racinready300ex said: Because there are different stories out there many people are voting for him and seeing as a way to show their discontent with leadership and the handling of the situation. That's brilliant! Vote for the inappropriate part of leadership to show the rest of the leadership you won't tolerate bad behavior by the leadership so you can blame leadership for the state of the organization. Oh, wait... Can't wait to be able to call Deltas "dicks" at major matches. I also have a few ideas about what to call Charlies, along the same lines, to appease the gender equality crowd who would claim it's not fair to use only male genitalia references. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BMSMB Posted September 12, 2023 Share Posted September 12, 2023 9 minutes ago, IVC said: This happened on the heels of a sexual harassment lawsuit, it was the president himself, it happened at a major match and we do know about both dry-humping and the inappropriate language (calling "deltas" "dicks" and maybe more). The remedy was from Troy at NROI, not from the BOD. And the BOD are the bad guys... Again. Right? They give a pass to a guy without discipline for inappropriate sexual language, the organization gets sued. They discipline a guy, the president no less, for inappropriate sexual language *and* conduct, some members call for their heads. They discipline another guy for leaking communication to hostile third parties, they get sued and we end up with this apologist thread. Well, which one is it? Discipline or try to burry it? I'll start. It was a bad mistake to let the first one slip, they should've acted and kicked the guy out. The other two are about right. They offered remedial action in the second case and that offer was rejected. The third case should allow for readmittance in the future, but that's still on the table. As for the role of the BOD, I would really like us to press them to clean up the technical issues, fire whoever messed up with the filings, make sure they hire people with basic competency to go through legal checklists. Do this and we can all go back to shooting. The sexual harassment lawsuit you're talking about is the Kim Williams one right? From 6 years ago? How many presidents ago was that? Also odd that you keep going to that when the alleged person who did the harassing is a current board member. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racinready300ex Posted September 12, 2023 Share Posted September 12, 2023 Just now, IVC said: That's brilliant! Vote for the inappropriate part of leadership to show the rest of the leadership you won't tolerate bad behavior by the leadership so you can blame leadership for the state of the organization. Oh, wait... Can't wait to be able to call Deltas "dicks" at major matches. I also have a few ideas about what to call Charlies, along the same lines, to appease the gender equality crowd who would claim it's not fair to use only male genitalia references. IMO If the president needed to be removed for his actions the BOD should have done it the same way they did with Foley. And the reasons should of been clear. They should of got out in front of the problem, instead they created another one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IVC Posted September 12, 2023 Share Posted September 12, 2023 There is another thread, just posted a few minutes back, about Troy. Should he be disciplined? I'll go first - yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racinready300ex Posted September 12, 2023 Share Posted September 12, 2023 1 minute ago, IVC said: There is another thread, just posted a few minutes back, about Troy. Should he be disciplined? I'll go first - yes. Yes, Will he? No. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vluc Posted September 12, 2023 Share Posted September 12, 2023 1 hour ago, Racinready300ex said: Yes, Will he? No. And therein lies the problem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BritinUSA Posted September 12, 2023 Author Share Posted September 12, 2023 (edited) The BOD have the authority to suspend members and (wit majority vote) can remove other officers holders. The members have no such authority, there is no recall option under the bylaws. Therefore, all the power remains concentrated at the top of the organization. They are answerable to no-one but themselves. A recall option and term limits would go a long way to resolving many of the issues that currently exist in the organization. That these provisions do not exist is further proof that they wish to retain the status quo. Edited September 12, 2023 by BritinUSA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
858 Posted September 12, 2023 Share Posted September 12, 2023 5 hours ago, BMSMB said: The sexual harassment lawsuit you're talking about is the Kim Williams one right? From 6 years ago? How many presidents ago was that? Also odd that you keep going to that when the alleged person who did the harassing is a current board member. Area 1 Director. Bruce1. He's in the lawsuit exhibits instructing board members how to violate Colorado's magazine capacity law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted September 12, 2023 Share Posted September 12, 2023 5 hours ago, BMSMB said: The sexual harassment lawsuit you're talking about is the Kim Williams one right? From 6 years ago? How many presidents ago was that? Also odd that you keep going to that when the alleged person who did the harassing is a current board member. Not the case he is talking about. The last prez is who is being discussed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BMSMB Posted September 12, 2023 Share Posted September 12, 2023 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Sarge said: Not the case he is talking about. The last prez is who is being discussed Was there a sexual harassment lawsuit while YML was in office? I'm almost 100% positive the lawsuit he is referring to is the Kim Williams one.... its old enough that his use of "on the heels of" is plainly disingenuous... which is probably causing some confusion. Edited September 12, 2023 by BMSMB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted September 12, 2023 Share Posted September 12, 2023 5 minutes ago, BMSMB said: Was there a sexual harassment lawsuit while YML was in office? I'm almost 100% positive the lawsuit he is referring to is the Kim Williams one.... its old enough that his use of "on the heels of" is plainly disingenuous... which is probably causing some confusion. YML was dry humping saying "dicks" etc which is what is mentioned. Hence, on the heels of is used since it was recently. Don't think there was a lawsuit per say he was just cancelled over it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BMSMB Posted September 12, 2023 Share Posted September 12, 2023 (edited) 1 minute ago, Sarge said: YML was dry humping saying "dicks" etc which is what is mentioned. Hence, on the heels of is used since it was recently. Don't think there was a lawsuit per say he was just cancelled over it. You need to go read the comment chain. He's trying to say that what YML did was so much worse because it happened on the heels of the KW lawsuit... Edited September 12, 2023 by BMSMB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted September 12, 2023 Share Posted September 12, 2023 Just now, BMSMB said: You need to go read the comment chain. He's trying to say that what YML did was so much worse because it happened on the heels of the KW lawsuit... God, you're toxic. Hope the thread doesn't get ruined because of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BMSMB Posted September 12, 2023 Share Posted September 12, 2023 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Sarge said: God, you're toxic. Hope the thread doesn't get ruined because of it. ? I'm legitimately confused at this response. You've clearly misunderstood what was written and I'm just trying to point out what you can scroll up and read for yourself. Feel free to apologize once you've figured it out. Edited September 12, 2023 by BMSMB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
858 Posted September 12, 2023 Share Posted September 12, 2023 22 minutes ago, BMSMB said: ? I'm legitimately confused at this response. You've clearly misunderstood what was written and I'm just trying to point out what you can scroll up and read for yourself. Feel free to apologize once you've figured it out. The lawsuit was Area 1 Director Bruce1. It was six years ago IIRC. Bruce is still the A1 director. He is on the board of directors and is named in the suit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BMSMB Posted September 13, 2023 Share Posted September 13, 2023 18 minutes ago, 858 said: The lawsuit was Area 1 Director Bruce1. It was six years ago IIRC. Bruce is still the A1 director. He is on the board of directors and is named in the suit. Yes, that's the lawsuit that I believe IVC is referring to when he's saying "on the heels of a lawsuit"... I'm not trying to over explain this, but trying to make sure what I'm meaning to say is being understood... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racinready300ex Posted September 13, 2023 Share Posted September 13, 2023 12 hours ago, Sarge said: God, you're toxic. Hope the thread doesn't get ruined because of it. I think he's right though. Go back and read it, it was mentioned that the reaction to YML's actions were swift because it came on the heels of a sexual harassments lawsuit. For me the only one that came to mind was also the KW one that about 8 years ago now. Unless there was a lawsuit against YML, pre the humping and bad words incident I'm not aware of. I also thought the "on the heels of" comment was miss leading. Unless there is some other lawsuit I missed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rowdyb Posted September 13, 2023 Share Posted September 13, 2023 I like the El Arroyo sign that said, "What if no one was president and we all just agreed to be nice." I fear voting with our wallets is the only way to create real change at the top. Only when the org is bankrupt can wholesale changes to the structure be made. (If your belief is that the problem isn't just the people but also the structure they operate within) Generally what do we want from a BOD and a Pres? thoughtful and consistent rulings about the sport honesty and clarity in communication financial transparency growth in match availability a rule set congruent with modern firearms and market forces Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StealthyBlagga Posted September 13, 2023 Share Posted September 13, 2023 If USPSA dies, the upside is that Virginia Count can die with it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackstone45 Posted September 13, 2023 Share Posted September 13, 2023 17 hours ago, BritinUSA said: The BOD have the authority to suspend members and (wit majority vote) can remove other officers holders. The members have no such authority, there is no recall option under the bylaws. Therefore, all the power remains concentrated at the top of the organization. They are answerable to no-one but themselves. A recall option and term limits would go a long way to resolving many of the issues that currently exist in the organization. That these provisions do not exist is further proof that they wish to retain the status quo. And, under the current rules, the DNROI has the power to unilaterally remove someone from the board (by pulling their RO certification)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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