Shadow 2 Compact

[Racinready300ex]

Just now, Currywurst said:

Rather just lower the hammer completely and let the inertia firing pin do its job as intended. If dropped on the hammer the half cock notch might shear of and the gun go bang.

 

There was a reason why the Colt SAA was carried with only 5 rds instead of using the safety notch...

 

Might, but also it's possible for the hammer fully down to go off on impact killing the RO standing behind you. 

[RennBaer]

11 minutes ago, Racinready300ex said:

 

Might, but also it's possible for the hammer fully down to go off on impact killing the RO standing behind you. 

 

That's not possible on a stock Shadow 2, only on one that has been modified with an extended firing pin and a lightened firing pin spring.

[Racinready300ex]

3 minutes ago, RennBaer said:

 

That's not possible on a stock Shadow 2, only on one that has been modified with an extended firing pin and a lightened firing pin spring.

 

In theory at least. Anything is possible, sure it's really unlikely. But, I'd say it's at least just as unlikely a gun at half cock is going to break the half cock notch and go off.

[Racinready300ex]

7 minutes ago, RennBaer said:

 

That's not possible on a stock Shadow 2, only on one that has been modified with an extended firing pin and a lightened firing pin spring.

 

I wonder, when everyone here was smacking their guns with hammers did anyone test a stock S2 with a broken firing pin spring? That's a known failure part, especially if you dryfire the gun much. I wonder if/how that might effect the drop safety of the gun if it's un noticed. 

 

I don't remember anyone mentioning that, and I didn't think of it at the time.

[RennBaer]

3 minutes ago, Racinready300ex said:

 

In theory at least. Anything is possible, sure it's really unlikely. But, I'd say it's at least just as unlikely a gun at half cock is going to break the half cock notch and go off.

 

1 minute ago, Racinready300ex said:

 

I wonder, when everyone here was smacking their guns with hammers did anyone test a stock S2 with a broken firing pin spring? That's a known failure part, especially if you dryfire the gun much. I wonder if/how that might effect the drop safety of the gun if it's un noticed. 

 

I don't remember anyone mentioning that, and I didn't think of it at the time.

 

When the hammer is fully lowered onto the firing pin it's actually also resting against the back of the slide, so even if you were to hit the hammer as hard as you can the slide prevents the forward movement of the hammer that would move the firing pin. With the stock firing pin and the hammer resting on the firing pin, the tip of the firing pin does not protrude from the breech face. The issue with extended firing pins is that they often do protrude from the breech face when the hammer is resting on the back of the firing pin, so primer contact is probable.

 

In the scenario of a broken firing pin spring I would be less concerned with the gun falling on a fully lowered hammer with a stock firing pin than I would with the gun falling on the muzzle that could possibly send the firing pin forward with enough force to ignite the primer.

[Racinready300ex]

11 minutes ago, RennBaer said:

 

 

When the hammer is fully lowered onto the firing pin it's actually also resting against the back of the slide, so even if you were to hit the hammer as hard as you can the slide prevents the forward movement of the hammer that would move the firing pin. With the stock firing pin and the hammer resting on the firing pin, the tip of the firing pin does not protrude from the breech face. The issue with extended firing pins is that they often do protrude from the breech face when the hammer is resting on the back of the firing pin, so primer contact is probable.

 

In the scenario of a broken firing pin spring I would be less concerned with the gun falling on a fully lowered hammer with a stock firing pin than I would with the gun falling on the muzzle that could possibly send the firing pin forward with enough force to ignite the primer.

 

 

All the extended pins I've seen do not protrude past the breech face, so then you're saying they're all safe right? Which kind of invalidates your first reply where you said they aren't safe. 

 

You're also saying most CZ's are unsafe as they rely on a apparently faulty half cock design when they should be lowered fully down. 

 

[RennBaer]

15 minutes ago, Racinready300ex said:

 

 

All the extended pins I've seen do not protrude past the breech face, so then you're saying they're all safe right? Which kind of invalidates your first reply where you said they aren't safe. 

 

You're also saying most CZ's are unsafe as they rely on a apparently faulty half cock design when they should be lowered fully down. 

 

 

All of the CGW extended firing pins that I have used have protruded past the breech face when hammer down. CGW themselves will tell you that their extended firing pins protrude on average from .000" to .004" depending on the model CZ.

 

And per CZ, non-decocker equipped CZs are supposed to either be carried fully cocked with the manual safety ON, or fully hammer down with the manual safety OFF. In all of CZ's literature the half-cock notch on non-decocker guns is a safety notch that is there to ensure that the hammer does not hit the firing pin if the user mistakenly drops the hammer during the cocking process. It's not a drop safety feature per CZ.

Edited August 22, 2023 by RennBaer

[HesedTech]

31 minutes ago, RennBaer said:

The issue with extended firing pins is that they often do protrude from the breech face

Both the Cajon and CZCustom extended pins have the extra length at the hammer side and do extend out the back. So when hammer is fully down it presses the pin forward. 

[jejb]

Cool gun. The lack of a decocker does worry me a bit, but I'll likely end up with one anyway. My range gun is an S2 Orange, so it would a good fit as a CC gun. 

[CGoodwin]

It appears that CZ did not take competition into account with this pistol design!

I'm a died in the decocker fan from way back. As nice as the pistol seems, hard pass.

[Racinready300ex]

4 minutes ago, CGoodwin said:

It appears that CZ did not take competition into account with this pistol design!

I'm a died in the decocker fan from way back. As nice as the pistol seems, hard pass.

 

I get the impression most competition guys are anti decocker. 

[eerw]

CZ has not introduced a firing pin block or decocker gun in 10-15 years.

 

besides the P10, every gun had been a safety model pistol with no block.

pretty much follows CZ design for the past decade.

[Racinready300ex]

On 8/22/2023 at 11:27 AM, RennBaer said:

 

All of the CGW extended firing pins that I have used have protruded past the breech face when hammer down. CGW themselves will tell you that their extended firing pins protrude on average from .000" to .004" depending on the model CZ.

 

And per CZ, non-decocker equipped CZs are supposed to either be carried fully cocked with the manual safety ON, or fully hammer down with the manual safety OFF. In all of CZ's literature the half-cock notch on non-decocker guns is a safety notch that is there to ensure that the hammer does not hit the firing pin if the user mistakenly drops the hammer during the cocking process. It's not a drop safety feature per CZ.

 

If the intent of the half cock is to stop the gun from going off if you slip while lowering the hammer they don't work vary well. I've seen that happen a couple times with shadow 2's. 

[Racinready300ex]

12 minutes ago, eerw said:

CZ has not introduced a firing pin block or decocker gun in 10-15 years.

 

besides the P10, every gun had been a safety model pistol with no block.

pretty much follows CZ design for the past decade.

 

Do you think that's just a cost cutting thing? To be more competitive with the plastic striker guns on the market today.

[hlsccsfa]

No fpb, no trigger safety, no carry...

 

This is more of an IDPA CCP competition gun in my eyes.

[eerw]

lawyers have seem to trained the masses well.

 

[45 Raven]

Some of those "lawyers" doing that "training" are "internet lawyers".  The hysteria regarding lack of a FPB on a pistol amazes me!

[858]

S2 Compact SAO conversion. No different than carrying a 1911 cocked and locked. Same as an S1 SAO conversion. I have all of the parts in my parts bin, just need the pistol.

 

For inspiration:

[CGoodwin]

On 8/25/2023 at 9:24 AM, Racinready300ex said:

 

I get the impression most competition guys are anti decocker. 

Sorry, not clear on my post!

The lack of consideration for the competition shooters was more from a size standpoint, not the presence or lack of a decocker.

My preference only.

[1911vm]

22 hours ago, eerw said:

lawyers have seem to trained the masses well.

 

That is for sure.  I carried a 1911 for years  and still do not as much though. Its my EDC for church lol. 

Started caring a DASA compact.  And because of what I have to wear a J frame in the pocket.  I have asked several attorneys about this that actually been to court and they all say no difference as far as differences is concerned.  The back plates on glocks  or things like that , that have any kind if drawings or saying like  "shoot them all let God sort it out". Are harder to defend than a SA only gun. By far

[crg]

On 8/25/2023 at 10:37 AM, Racinready300ex said:

 

If the intent of the half cock is to stop the gun from going off if you slip while lowering the hammer they don't work vary well. I've seen that happen a couple times with shadow 2's. 

 

Isn't this more of a USPSA issue than a problem with the gun? USPSA requires the hammer to be fully down which requires shooters to keep the trigger depressed through the entire motion of lowering the hammer, rendering the half cock completely useless. It's hard to blame the half cock for ADs when the rules require it to be defeated.

[danwessondwx]

I saw the picture where it doesn't fit in the idpa ccp box with the stock magazine  , but will it fit with the flush base mags?

[eerw]

1 hour ago, danwessondwx said:

I saw the picture where it doesn't fit in the idpa ccp box with the stock magazine  , but will it fit with the flush base mags?

 

with 14rnd CZ mag

[1911vm]

2 hours ago, eerw said:

 

with 14rnd CZ mag

perfect than you

[danwessondwx]

I guess that sells me on my next idpa ccp gun. Thanks for the response gonna cost me 1400 bucks. Lol