Spate of Bad Cases

[RickT]

Loading 9mm with a 1050/Mark VII, mixed cases.  Haven't changed the setup in 100K rounds +-.  I do use some pickup brass although most of what I shoot is recycled from my practice sessions, maybe 20-30 times.  I'm getting bulged cases particularly PPU, S&B, and SVT with the occasional Win and Speer.  I did swap out the sizing die with no change in result.  Is there perhaps someone with an old Glock using this particular bay or has Glock bulge gone the way of the DoDo?

 

The rounds I shot today had all been checked and if in question I tested in a Barsto barrel identical to the installed barrel.  It's not an OAL issue and does appear to be a bulge at the case base.

[shred]

Anyone shooting 9 major?

 

[Sarge]

Don’t sigs leave a big ole bulge?

[Don_B]

I have been shooting 9 major for over 10 years, started when it was allowed by USPSA. 
 

So I learned the hard way that 9 major and random range pick up brass do not play well together. I will use mixed brass for practice but with about a 145-150 pf. 
 

For matches that require major I use known brass, Win, FC, RP, Blazer. Even this brass will bulge after a while. A roll sizer is the only way I have found to fix this.
 

I am very careful with my match brass, I will use once fired brass and only load it once before I use it for a big match. 

[RickT]

From now on I'm separating out any incidental pickups.  I'm shooting sub-minor so my fired brass actually fits in a case gauge.  The PPU brass, for example, won't event gauge if I just run the brass through the de-capping and sizing press stages.  After so many rounds made and a fair amount of range pick-up I've never had this happen.  Learn something new every day.

[HesedTech]

14 hours ago, RickT said:

I'm getting bulged cases particularly PPU, S&B, and SVT with the occasional Win and Speer. 

 

Since you've invested a lot in your press and drive I would recommend you get a roll sizer to "fix" the bulges. 

 

I exclusively use range pick up and since using the roll sizer have no issues. 

[stick]

First off, dup the PPU brass.  I don't fully sort my brass, but I do keep only the major brands of brass I pick up.  Win, R&P, PMC, Speer, Starline, FC and S&B.  All others go into a give away bin.  I'm also using a full length sizing die.  I've also noticed that sub gun and 9major will cause bulged brass.

[sharko]

Something I came across a few years ago with my Barsto barreled Sig's is rim deformity. At the time I never lubed brass for sizing and some sized pretty hard. I ended up with a lot of loads that wouldn't plunk in the Barsto's but would in stock barrels. Well they would plunk but not all would rotate after the plunk. Then I noticed that the stock barrels had a chamfer on the rear lug that would pass that rim lip. I chucked up my barrels and cut the chamfer and never had a problem with that batch of ammo again.

I since started lubing before sizing, only on 9's, and have never had any issues since. Well I also roll size but unless you run them upside down my rollsizer won't get the rims.

[zzt]

My shooting buddy uses range pickup for major.  He has never had an issue, when when he used short OAL and CFE.  I'm not so trusting.  I use.once.fires, same headstamp, fully processed brass for maajor.  I'll reuse practice brass for 144 PF minor, and range pickup for 130 PF and sub-minor.

[Maximis228]

I dont care how low power factor the ammo is, 20-30 reloading's turns brass into scrap. Get a new batch and move on. 

[IHAVEGAS]

On 7/20/2023 at 8:25 AM, Don_B said:

So I learned the hard way that 9 major and random range pick up brass do not play well together. I

 

Can anyone expand on that? I shoot production at about 130pf with range pick up brass, much of it shot through open guns at USPSA matches.  

I have found several split cases after shooting and tossed them in the scrap pile but have never detected any indication that the case splitting made any difference to accuracy or reliability. Now I load till they spilt and just don't worry about it. 

What happens bad when a brass case splits in an open gun? 

[PhotoRecon]

I had case ruptures just above the extractor groove during load workup for major with brass by Win or Browning. 

 

When the case ruptured there was smoke in the action and the recoil felt somewhat less. Didn't realize it had ruptured until I picked up that piece of brass after seeing the smoke.

 

Since then I start with OFB Blazer, FC or R-P for several cycles then start a new batch. No problems since then.

[Maximis228]

25 minutes ago, IHAVEGAS said:

 

Can anyone expand on that? I shoot production at about 130pf with range pick up brass, much of it shot through open guns at USPSA matches.  

I have found several split cases after shooting and tossed them in the scrap pile but have never detected any indication that the case splitting made any difference to accuracy or reliability. Now I load till they spilt and just don't worry about it. 

What happens bad when a brass case splits in an open gun? 

Case head separation would be the worst-case scenario. But split cases can also get stuck in chambers if you have a weak/very dirty extractor set up as well. 9 major being above normal pressures cause it to do some funky stuff under less than ideal conditions. 

[Farmer]

Not quite so much in pistol’s but in rifles it can erode a spot in the chamber. Pretty hot flame in a small concentrated area. 

[RickT]

The brass in question was either from a major-loaded gun or someone doing proof loads.  I will reject PPU from now on just 'cause.

My current criteria is to drop a fired case into a gauge.  If it plunks or just barely protrudes it's good to go, otherwise it's junk.  I did have the Barsto barrels reamed slight, but that's to address OAL.  Anyway, lesson learned.

[Don_B]

On 7/21/2023 at 8:19 AM, IHAVEGAS said:

 

Can anyone expand on that? I shoot production at about 130pf with range pick up brass, much of it shot through open guns at USPSA matches.  

I have found several split cases after shooting and tossed them in the scrap pile but have never detected any indication that the case splitting made any difference to accuracy or reliability. Now I load till they spilt and just don't worry about it. 

What happens bad when a brass case splits in an open gun? 

9 major at 170 pf and 130 pf loads are 2 totally different loads. Split cases usually don't cause much trouble in either one.

 

9 major requires a much stronger case. If the case is not strong enough to contain the pressures then you have a case rupture. Which is bad. 

[IVC]

The bulge comes from unsupported chambers. It cannot happen when the chamber is fully supported, there is no room for the bulge to form. And if you're dealing with bulges, you have to either reject that brass when sorting, or use a rollsizer. Full length sizing die (which is most of them for pistols) won't be able to iron it out, at least not consistently and to the point where you can trust the process. 

 

Major, minor, brass is brass. It will weaken over time and it will crack. You need a separation process that detects this. Sure, for major or other important matches use brand name new brass, that's a (very) cheap insurance against potential problems. But most of the time, you shoot it until it fails, then you cull it during sorting. 

Edited July 30, 2023 by IVC

[m700]

Will bulged brass go through a shell sorter? Maybe we can get them to make a plate for it. I have only come across a small handful of them far less than 380 cases.

 

Maybe new brass for matches only would be affordable. all range pickup goes to practice.

[HesedTech]

1 hour ago, m700 said:

Will bulged brass go through a shell sorter?

Yes