Sig 320 Discharges Itself

[dwzuspsa]

Just recently had a local Officer with a Sig 320, discharge the firearm while exiting his squad car.  Then the local news went into a diatribe about 33 cases of accidental discharge with Sig 320 hand guns nation wide and the on going law suit going on with these cases all law enforcement officers.  They all are saying that the fire arms discharged themselves.  I have seen quite a few of these 320's in production and optics  with tens of thousands of round down range and never had one go off by itself.  Just checking - with the average Office shooting lest than say 400 round a year and USPSA competitor logging thousands of rounds a year and they still do not self discharge!  Just checking if anyone has any feed back on this.

[dansedgli]

My X5's were the worst guns I've ever bought. 

 

[kujo929]

If you talk to Sig about it they say all cases like this in which any investigation has been allowed at all, show that some piece of foreign material or equipment found it’s way into the holster and manipulated the trigger discharging the gun. (That is if it is not a direct negligent discharge when trigger is pulled by user). 
 

Obviously I don’t know, but that claim makes sense when you look at the changes holster companies have been making to tighten up the body of the holsters to the firearm.  The older Safariland holsters had all kinds of slack and wiggle in them compared to newer holsters and also had sealed bottoms where most newer designs have open bottoms. 
 

Regardless, the claim that something pulled the trigger rather than “it just fired on it’s own” makes more sense to me. 

[RangerTrace]

I've not witnessed any.  The Texas DPS has over 4k of them deployed all over the State.  I asked the DPS Rangemaster this question a few weeks ago.  They have not had a single P320 discharge without the trigger being pulled by "something".

[robchavous]

The problem only seems to be prevalent with LEOs.  Likely lack of training and / or maintenance of their gear is leading to this.  I mean NYPD had to have Glock specially make super heavy connectors b/c the officers were ND'ing normal 5.5lbs triggers. 

 

The simplest solution is usually the correct one and in regards to these it seems like the guns aren't magically going off for 1 subset of the population.

 

Also considering most of these peoples jobs / pensions are on the line if they were to admit negligence you can see why they all would want to scapegoat the equipment.

Edited December 9, 2022 by robchavous

[RJH]

2 hours ago, RangerTrace said:

I've not witnessed any.  The Texas DPS has over 4k of them deployed all over the State.  I asked the DPS Rangemaster this question a few weeks ago.  They have not had a single P320 discharge without the trigger being pulled by "something".

 

This does seem to illude to the fact that the guns have gone off unintentionally though. I wonder if it is at a higher rate than the previous guns dps used. 

 

 

Also, what were the previous guns that dps used?

Edited December 9, 2022 by RJH

[pjb45]

Sorry to chime in here;

Yes, I have a couple of X5Ls.  Never had a ND.

 

I have former shooting buddy (USPSA) who is now an LT LEO.  He is the first to admit the the over whelming majority of LEO have gun manipulations issues. According to him and others, most officers rarely draw their guns or practice until it is time for their Quals.

 

JUST to be a @%&&@ I know a little bit more than most people about the NM shooting at a movie production set.  The gun was sent to the FBI and concluded the gun did not shoot itself.  So I would tend to conclude there is not a ND pandemic.

 

The above topic to me seems like operator error and lawyers figuring a payday.

[RangerTrace]

6 hours ago, RJH said:

 

This does seem to illude to the fact that the guns have gone off unintentionally though. I wonder if it is at a higher rate than the previous guns dps used. 

 

 

Also, what were the previous guns that dps used?

I was trying to be brief this morning.  He said draw strings, etc have gotten inside holsters and have caused

a discharge when holstering.  The guns prior to the P320 were P226DAK.  Worst trigger I ever had the pleasure of shooting.

[RJH]

2 hours ago, RangerTrace said:

I was trying to be brief this morning.  He said draw strings, etc have gotten inside holsters and have caused

a discharge when holstering.  The guns prior to the P320 were P226DAK.  Worst trigger I ever had the pleasure of shooting.

 

Right. I do wonder though if as many incidents were happening with the 226. I've messed with some of those DAK sigs and they do suck, but getting shot in the leg might suck worse 

[pcs352]

Interesting video….
 

 

 

Edited December 10, 2022 by pcs352

[ChuckS]

The video linked above has already been discussed in this thread...

 

[usmc1974]

I've never seen 1 go off accidentally, but I read enough about them going off accidentally with people who would be considered professionals. I won't own 1 and I don't want anybody even shooting 1 around me in competition.

[X5SigChris]

1 hour ago, usmc1974 said:

I've never seen 1 go off accidentally, but I read enough about them going off accidentally with people who would be considered professionals. I won't own 1 and I don't want anybody even shooting 1 around me in competition.

Do you have many at your local? Just curious because we have a ton. Obviously most are in CO but some in limited and open as well. I’d imagine some regions drift towards certain platforms more than others but couldn’t begin to imagine what and where. 

[Effectus Magis Per Minor]

I have seen one 320 go off unexpectedly, and without explanation at a club match. An experienced shooter who maintained a safe muzzle direction when it happened, and he graciously took the DQ. I have retired from a law enforcement career that started when Glocks began to replace revolvers and all of the NDs (except for the baton strike in the holster 'upgrade') that we heard of with Glocks were attributed to shooter error. I am surprised that those decades of data of routine handling of striker fired guns is being ignored or discounted when evaluating the Sig claims.

[Boomstick303]

12 hours ago, usmc1974 said:

but I read enough about them going off accidentally with people who would be considered professionals. I won't own 1 and I don't want anybody even shooting 1 around me in competition.

 

Professional?   At what exactly?  Qualifying with a firearm once a year does not designate you as a Professional.  I am sorry but with the exception of LEO that play in shooting games, or for the rare ones that actually practice regularly (which seems to be extremely rare) LEO are some of the most unsafe people I have been around in regards to firearms.  

[usmc1974]

12 hours ago, X5SigChris said:

Do you have many at your local? Just curious because we have a ton. Obviously most are in CO but some in limited and open as well. I’d imagine some regions drift towards certain platforms more than others but couldn’t begin to imagine what and where. 

Yes, but just 1 guy.

[Jim_H]

Good morning,    I would like to chime in a little on this.    If a gun is in its factory condition there is absolutely no way it can go off by itself.  The mechanics of the gun wont allow it. There are plenty of vids on how the the striker interacts with the fcu and the built in safety's.   IF the gun has been modified with after market triggers, ect   ( I have done it all to the ones I have)   it will change the function  of the safeties.   I have well over 50K through the ones i have and it has never happened. 

Just my 2 cents-   although it is probably only worth a penny now. 

 

Jim

 

 

 

[usmc1974]

1 hour ago, Jim_H said:

Good morning,    I would like to chime in a little on this.    If a gun is in its factory condition there is absolutely no way it can go off by itself.  The mechanics of the gun wont allow it. There are plenty of vids on how the the striker interacts with the fcu and the built in safety's.   IF the gun has been modified with after market triggers, ect   ( I have done it all to the ones I have)   it will change the function  of the safeties.   I have well over 50K through the ones i have and it has never happened. 

Just my 2 cents-   although it is probably only worth a penny now. 

 

Jim

 

 

I will have to pass on the Sig I don't believe everybody who had an accidental discharge has worked on the trigger. most of these are just people who carry them for duty or whatever.  and it's went off too many times without a finger in the trigger for my taste. I do believe it has too many design flaws. I will stick with  My Glock or my beretta.

[bulldog009]

6 hours ago, usmc1974 said:

7 hours ago, Jim_H said:

Good morning,    I would like to chime in a little on this.    If a gun is in its factory condition there is absolutely no way it can go off by itself.  The mechanics of the gun wont allow it. There are plenty of vids on how the the striker interacts with the fcu and the built in safety's.   IF the gun has been modified with after market triggers, ect   ( I have done it all to the ones I have)   it will change the function  of the safeties.   I have well over 50K through the ones i have and it has never happened. 

Just my 2 cents-   although it is probably only worth a penny now. 

 

Jim

 

 

I will have to pass on the Sig I don't believe everybody who had an accidental discharge has worked on the trigger. most of these are just people who carry them for duty or whatever.  and it's went off too many times without a finger in the trigger for my taste. I do believe it has too many design flaws. I will stick with  My Glock or my beretta.

What do you identify as a "design flaw"? Just curious. No one has yet to actually give proof of one going off without a finger or something else in the trigger. There are reports of it happening, but no actual proof beyond hearsay that I've seen. 

[dansedgli]

Like the chamber support issue, it just happens far too much to not be a problem with the design. 

 

 

[texasdawg]

All the people that I know of who had a case rupture were using either remanufactured ammo or were using reloaded range brass. Never have I heard of someone using new ammo have a case rupture. I have had a case ruptured and it was with range brass reloaded. YMMV,,,   

 I also agree with that Jim fellow, the stock design of the P320 will not allow a P320 to go off by itsels,,,

[anachronism]

My first thought after hearing that this situation is only happening to cops was to wonder what holsters they were using. There are serious penalties for cops who have unintended discharges, so of course it must be an equipment failure, since all cops are perfectly trained, seasoned professionals who never have accidents or make mistakes. From there it's "we have used brand X holsters for the last thirty years, so it can't be their holster".

 

I don't think we're being told the whole story. BTW, I have three P320s, and intend to keep them.

[dansedgli]

11 minutes ago, texasdawg said:

All the people that I know of who had a case rupture were using either remanufactured ammo or were using reloaded range brass. Never have I heard of someone using new ammo have a case rupture. I have had a case ruptured and it was with range brass reloaded. YMMV,,,   

 I also agree with that Jim fellow, the stock design of the P320 will not allow a P320 to go off by itsels,,,

 

How many times have you had case ruptures with other guns?

 

 

[Jim_H]

5 hours ago, bulldog009 said:

What do you identify as a "design flaw"? Just curious. No one has yet to actually give proof of one going off without a finger or something else in the trigger. There are reports of it happening, but no actual proof beyond hearsay that I've seen. 

I agree with you. The circumstances where it happens are questionable.  I suggest in these instances it was not the gun. It was in the gun handling.  It cannot go off without the trigger being pressed. 

[Jim_H]

2 hours ago, texasdawg said:

All the people that I know of who had a case rupture were using either remanufactured ammo or were using reloaded range brass. Never have I heard of someone using new ammo have a case rupture. I have had a case ruptured and it was with range brass reloaded. YMMV,,,   

 I also agree with that Jim fellow, the stock design of the P320 will not allow a P320 to go off by itsels,,,

I did blow the side off the grip, bottom of the mag blew out and extractor went who knows where.   It was reloaded range pickup,  I had been practicing A LOT, and I know my QC was slacking.  I was not case gauging at all. (really where I QC things) TOTALLY my fault.  This happened last march before Dragon.  I still have the grip and the case on a shelf over my reloader as a QC reminder.