For your information

[Johnny_Chimpo]

I know nothing about this other than what is on the video

 

 

[RJH]

 

Saw that earlier, crazy deal. If he is being truthful, and I think he is, I am surprised he ain't sueing. Especially since he said sig admitted there was an issue with the gun

[BritinUSA]

I would always check that my gun would not point at any part of me when holstered. I was at a match many years ago when someone got hit in the leg while holstering. Bullet travelled down his thigh and ended up just below the knee…. All travel was internal.

[RangerTrace]

The LE Glock rep for Texas is a good friend and neighbor of mine.  He swears these incidents are happening.  Before I retired from the Rangers, I talked with the Texas DPS Range staff who advised they have never had one of these incidents reported and we have over 4K P320s issued to officers all over the State.

[D_B_X]

In all seriousness, P320 is one of the most popular firearms in USPSA for CO. Think about how many matches there are each year in America, from local level 1 to national. Maybe thousands? Think about how many P320 in each match, how many rounds fired in each match, how many times they go in and out of holster, among all the matches. Every year. Those are some extraordinarily large numbers.

 

You would think if these things do happen, even with a very small probability, they would happen in USPSA and other matches on a regular basis. Competitions are the ultimate testing bed for all firearms.

 

I think all shooters in competitions agree that guns simply don't fire by themselves. And if anything weird happens, which usually results in DQ, it is ALWAYS the user's fault.

[D_B_X]

He did say it happened "between re-holstering my gun and going to the high ready position to make ready". He didn't say it happened "after" re-holstering. The former is the gun fired during the motion of holstering. The latter is the gun fired while untouched after being re-holstered. These are two fundamentally different scenarios. And he was vague about this.

Edited October 19, 2022 by D_B_X

[HOGRIDER]

I agree with this guy's statement:

 

Quote

The guy was pretty solid in the video, I'm not gonna bash him.

I'd point out though that every one of these "My Sig Tried to Kill Me" stories always seem to be while on the range, in the process of holstering/unholstering.. etc.

I want to see the story and video of the loaded gun going off in the gun safe, in the night stand, in the holster on top of the china cabinet, etc.

How many stories are there of NO human interaction immediately prior to this happening? I've not seen any yet.

 

And I definitely respect Bruce Gray's comment:

 

Quote

Bruce Gray

This guy says "SIG said it was a defective firing pin return spring." The P320 has a striker reset spring, which is irrelevant to his claimed scenario. I call b.s.

 

 

[ddc]

1 minute ago, HOGRIDER said:

I agree with this guy's statement:

 

 

And I definitely respect Bruce Gray's comment:

 

 

 

 

Those are both good points.

I had not considered the first one but that seems to me to be a very valid way of looking at these scenarios and he asks a good question: Where are the reports of spontaneous discharge without human interaction?

And if Bruce Gray thinks it's all b.s. then that carries a lot of weight for me.

[HOGRIDER]

1 minute ago, ddc said:

 

Those are both good points.

I had not considered the first one but that seems to me to be a very valid way of looking at these scenarios and he asks a good question: Where are the reports of spontaneous discharge without human interaction?

And if Bruce Gray thinks it's all b.s. then that carries a lot of weight for me.

[fireman1776]

On 10/19/2022 at 6:14 AM, D_B_X said:

He did say it happened "between re-holstering my gun and going to the high ready position to make ready". He didn't say it happened "after" re-holstering. The former is the gun fired during the motion of holstering. The latter is the gun fired while untouched after being re-holstered. These are two fundamentally different scenarios. And he was vague about this.

He has clarified. The gun was in the holster resting with his hand off the gun. There are witnesses that back up his statement. 

[Boomstick303]

Sorry but I do not buy these guns going off after the update on the FCU.  I just don't.  Case in point until one goes off sitting on the shelf with zero human interaction I will always have a hard time believing it.  If you know how the FCU works the trigger has to be manipulated for the striker to go off.   Also he does not mention if he did or did not do trigger work which can create situations where the internal safety is made inoperative.  From what he describes I do not think he did but he also did not indicate the trigger was stock unless I missed something.  

 

I would be curious on the holster to firearm fit.  Is it possible that he did not completely holster the fire arm if it was properly holstered?  Did his shirt get dragged into the holster when holstering and interacted with the trigger?  We have zero idea because we were not there.  

We hear a lot of stories but none of us have been in the room/range when these guns are going off.  Until it happens with video evidence or I am there personally I will have a hard time believing these stories.  

 

Credit to him for not looking for a payday, but that also has me wondering if the gun truly went off by itself he would have cause to sue.  I am sure that same lawyer that seems to take up a lot of these cases will be in contact him shortly.  

[BritinUSA]

I think his shirt was caught in the holster when he inserted the gun.

 

The shirt could have been next to the trigger, when he raised his arms the shirt pulled up (try it) and yanked the trigger, this action could have pulled his shirt completely clear of the holster.

[Southpaw]

Here's another one. Anyone know which club this happened at and can get more info on incident? 

 

https://www.facebook.com/groups/809029422532820/posts/4592947444140980

[mrvip27]

8 hours ago, Boomstick303 said:

Sorry but I do not buy these guns going off after the update on the FCU.  I just don't.  Case in point until one goes off sitting on the shelf with zero human interaction I will always have a hard time believing it.  If you know how the FCU works the trigger has to be manipulated for the striker to go off.   Also he does not mention if he did or did not do trigger work which can create situations where the internal safety is made inoperative.  From what he describes I do not think he did but he also did not indicate the trigger was stock unless I missed something.  

 

I would be curious on the holster to firearm fit.  Is it possible that he did not completely holster the fire arm if it was properly holstered?  Did his shirt get dragged into the holster when holstering and interacted with the trigger?  We have zero idea because we were not there.  

We hear a lot of stories but none of us have been in the room/range when these guns are going off.  Until it happens with video evidence or I am there personally I will have a hard time believing these stories.  

 

Credit to him for not looking for a payday, but that also has me wondering if the gun truly went off by itself he would have cause to sue.  I am sure that same lawyer that seems to take up a lot of these cases will be in contact him shortly.  

 

Yes, no one seems to make this point about the adjustable triggers out there now....removing all that pretravel...without understanding the design of the gun. Basically defeating the safeties.

[Zachjet]

3 minutes ago, mrvip27 said:

 

Yes, no one seems to make this point about the adjustable triggers out there now....removing all that pretravel...without understanding the design of the gun. Basically defeating the safeties.

I agree.. but what about the reports of it happening to police officers…. I’ll assume that they don’t have zero pre-travel trigger.

[cheby]

13 hours ago, fireman1776 said:

There are witnesses that back up his statement. 

He said there were witnesses. Nobody saw or heard them backing up anything yet. 
This incident happened in 2019. He had to clarify that on Reddit yesterday. 

[Boomstick303]

12 hours ago, Zachjet said:

I agree.. but what about the reports of it happening to police officers…. I’ll assume that they don’t have zero pre-travel trigger.

 

I would assume they are not messing with their triggers, but we do not know for certain.  What we also do not have is witnesses other than what the officer claims happens.  At least I have not read any of these accounts where they have witnesses to the account other than themselves.  I  would imagine the disciplinary protocols of NDs are not very good for any law enforcement officer's career.  We do not know if these people are playing with their guns, if they are using proper holsters when they have their gun floating around in a purse etc., then blaming a gun that has a reputation of "going off by itself."

 

When you inject humans into the equation I have a hard time believing these things go boom without the trigger being pulled in some fashion.  Did they mean for it to happen?  No, yet here we are.  Still hard to believe.

[Racinready300ex]

My local IDPA club has had two people shoot themselves while holstering this year. Both were earlier in the year. Both were 320's, no idea about upgrades. Likely clothing got into the trigger guard and the only safety is don't pull the trigger so...  I doubt either of those went off on their own and no one ever claimed they did.

 

Even if someone says they saw it happen doesn't mean they saw it correctly. It's amazing how easily we can see something wrong and swear by it. A stupid example that sticks with me. At a IDPA match a buddy and I were watching another friend shoot a stage. We both saw the same thing and we both swore he did it wrong and got lucky to not get a PE. After reviewing the video we were both wrong even though we were standing their watching and 100% agreed on what we saw and with out a doubt we were right. It was kind of eye opening really. 

[Racinready300ex]

Maybe 320 shooters should just start keeping a steel plate in their pocket. Just in case. 

[Boomstick303]

23 minutes ago, Racinready300ex said:

After reviewing the video we were both wrong even though we were standing their watching and 100% agreed on what we saw and with out a doubt we were right. It was kind of eye opening really. 

 

Its been proven again and again that human recollection of events is often skewed.  This is another reason why I find all of these guns going off on their own is so hard for me to believe.

 

It is crazy how phones and knives have prevented bullets from entering legs though no matter how the gun was discharged.

 

That is one instance that you cracked your phone and would be happy about it.

 

Edited October 21, 2022 by Boomstick303

[Zachjet]

47 minutes ago, Boomstick303 said:

 

I would assume they are not messing with their triggers, but we do not know for certain.  What we also do not have is witnesses other than what the officer claims happens.  At least I have not read any of these accounts where they have witnesses to the account other than themselves.  I  would imagine the disciplinary protocols of NDs are not very good for any law enforcement officer's career.  We do not know if these people are playing with their guns, if they are using proper holsters when they have their gun floating around in a purse etc., then blaming a gun that has a reputation of "going off by itself."

 

When you inject humans into the equation I have a hard time believing these things go boom without the trigger being pulled in some fashion.  Did they mean for it to happen?  No, yet here we are.  Still hard to believe.

Agreed. But still make me hesitant. I’m not in the market for 320. Like if I was I’d be doing a lot of research on this topicI’m not in the market for 320. Like if I was I’d be doing a lot of research on this topic. After all it is a gun pointed at your hip, or even your manhood that’s how you carry

[Johnny_Chimpo]

8 minutes ago, Zachjet said:

Agreed. But still make me hesitant. I’m not in the market for 320. Like if I was I’d be doing a lot of research on this topicI’m not in the market for 320. Like if I was I’d be doing a lot of research on this topic. After all it is a gun pointed at your hip, or even your manhood that’s how you carry

 

Where there's smoke there's almost always fire.  SIGs are a hard pass for me.  Even their DA/SA stuff as there are better DA/SA options around.

[Boomstick303]

Just now, Zachjet said:

Agreed. But still make me hesitant. I’m not in the market for 320. Like if I was I’d be doing a lot of research on this topicI’m not in the market for 320. Like if I was I’d be doing a lot of research on this topic. After all it is a gun pointed at your hip, or even your manhood that’s how you carry

 

I can understand that.  I have given this issue some thought as well.  I carry a P365 and a P320, and I would have to say even without the issues we have heard, I would be hesitant of pointing any gun without a safety at my junk.  I carry at the 3-4 O'clock position to prevent pointing any gun at my junk.  

 

With that said, you would think in "all" of these instances of P320 "going off without the user pulling the trigger", you have not heard about one person shooting their junk off.  Is that because they are very careful holstering the gun and use strict finger discipline because a gun is pointed at their junk?  Are fewer people appendix carrying the P320 platform?  In either case we do not here about P320s going off when carried in this position.  

 

There is a video running around out there where a Glock user almost shot his junk off when his shirt got tucked into the trigger when he holstered in appendix carry.   He turned his body and the gun went off.  All on video.  If my memory serves me correct he missed his junk but hit his leg.  A prime example of a "completely safe" gun going off in someone's pants with he person actuating the trigger with their finger.  

[Johnny_Chimpo]

 

 

 

 

Grey Wolf Armory

1 year ago (edited)

This is an update on what we have seen here in Florida. The Pasco County Sheriff office has just had another incident of a P320 firing un-commanded while in its holster. This time there are no excuses. The incident was witnessed by half a dozen deputies and the officer it happened to had his right knee blown off. We hope that the deputy has a speedy recovery with no major long-term effects and that this finally gets some real traction on this issue with the P320 design.

Edited October 21, 2022 by Johnny_Chimpo

[fireman1776]

15 hours ago, cheby said:

He said there were witnesses. Nobody saw or heard them backing up anything yet. 
This incident happened in 2019. He had to clarify that on Reddit yesterday. 

He also said on Reddit one witness filled out a written statement backing up that it was in the holster but it contains enough personal info that it would doxx him and he doesn’t want to do that. 
 

If these accounts of guns going off in holsters are true There’s always going to be holes in the story so that people can find issue with them. 
 

personally, I’ve heard enough of them that I’m starting to believe where there’s smoke there is fire. Enough so that I’m switching platforms from the p320 x5 legion. 
 

from watching the sig mechanics video it seems that the breakage of the firing pin safety tab spring in combination with the sear slipping off could cause the gun to AD. The 2019 redesign seems to have fixed the sear issue. But These types of things require multiple failures. Is it probable? No. Is it possible? It seems to me yes. Even if it is a tiny chance, there’s lots of other platforms where the chance is 0%.