What's going on with IDPA

[GOF]

I'm not knocking IDPA as a competitive shooting sport. When Bill Wilson ran things I was a certified SO and accumulated a pile of trophies and plaques from International Postal Matches, 2011 World Championship, National and numerous Regional & State championships from a half-dozen states. I'm no longer a paying member, but I do like shooting a match every few months with my carry gun&gear to keep in practice.

I do hear that there was a noticeable loss of members when Joyce Fowler took over, but now I'm seeing established, long-time affiliated clubs saying "Bye bye, no thanks". One match director told me this was because they didn't... and couldn't... meet IDPA's new requirements.

Any info?

[MarilynMonbro]

I've been shooting it for about 5 years and I haven't noticed anything like that 

[konkapot]

Rules. Changing the balance from "Defensive" pistol to fault lines. Someone getting DQ'ed at Nats and getting un-DQ'ed by Joyce. 

 

Same ol' same ol' but maybe people are less tolerant of it than they used to be. 

[RangerTrace]

I'm told it's more USPSA "like" than it was before.  I started shooting USPSA in 2008.  Didn't start IDPA until 2019 or so.

[rowdyb]

I remember you from back then. Things have changed.

[matteekay]

Locally, we've only gained members since the 2017 and 2022 rule changes. I suspect there's a bit of an old guard leaving who don't like the new rules (and, just *maybe*, don't like that they can't hang with the new blood, what with their guns shoved into the front of their pants and their fancy laser beam sights and all).

[GOF]

That still doesn't explain why some clubs are not re-affiliating with IDPA, even though they may still be hosting IDPA-like matches. 

[matteekay]

1 hour ago, GOF said:

That still doesn't explain why some clubs are not re-affiliating with IDPA, even though they may still be hosting IDPA-like matches. 

 

Did you ask the match director that you talked to which requirements they couldn't meet? Nothing materially changed in terms of club affiliations and/or stage components.

[Barcode1337]

Our club used to be affiliated, but then it lapsed when the only person at our club that was a certified SO left shooting. So now to get reaffiliated we need to get someone certified, which is a decent hassle/expense for essentially no value. Since there isn't anyone in our area that travels around to level 2+ matches, there's really no point/value. Whereas USPSA is easier and offers more value to be affiliated.

[Joe4d]

IDPA has never really offered value for membership or club affiliation. Been that way since the 90,s, Clubs knew if they tried to enforce that one match thing they wouldnt have any shooters.
Seems I have probably shot more "Defensive" pistol matches using IDPA rules than affiliated

 

[r4ndy]

The last two batches of rule changes have made it much more difficult to efficiently and cost effectively put on a good club match IMO. Also the change where you can’t require a non shooting action has eliminated a lot of fun stage options. We have to get really creative and/or limit movement with fault lines or tons of barrels in order to block people from going around walls on what is meant to be out of bounds and gaming the stages. I have seen stage designers create some cool stages and someone figures out how to go around things and defeat the whole intent of the “defensive” stage because you have to block every possible avenue now.

 

Even if we decided to invest in more walls it would be a lot of extra work to haul everything down range and set it up for the 4-5 people who help with setup. For a small club (20-25 shooters) it is a PITA. 

[matteekay]

3 hours ago, r4ndy said:

The last two batches of rule changes have made it much more difficult to efficiently and cost effectively put on a good club match IMO. Also the change where you can’t require a non shooting action has eliminated a lot of fun stage options. We have to get really creative and/or limit movement with fault lines or tons of barrels in order to block people from going around walls on what is meant to be out of bounds and gaming the stages. I have seen stage designers create some cool stages and someone figures out how to go around things and defeat the whole intent of the “defensive” stage because you have to block every possible avenue now.

 

Even if we decided to invest in more walls it would be a lot of extra work to haul everything down range and set it up for the 4-5 people who help with setup. For a small club (20-25 shooters) it is a PITA. 

 

Rules 3.6.5 and 3.6.7 are the ones you want to limit movement.

 

There's no getting around the non-shooting action thing, though; that one's a bummer. I ran an awesome "Miami Vice" stage that involved collecting drugs and money while shooting your way through "the docks" (you were penalized for leaving "goods" behind). It's really, really difficult to build something like that when you can't require non-shooting actions.

[usmc1974]

On 8/7/2022 at 7:28 PM, r4ndy said:

The last two batches of rule changes have made it much more difficult to efficiently and cost effectively put on a good club match IMO. Also the change where you can’t require a non shooting action has eliminated a lot of fun stage options. We have to get really creative and/or limit movement with fault lines or tons of barrels in order to block people from going around walls on what is meant to be out of bounds and gaming the stages. I have seen stage designers create some cool stages and someone figures out how to go around things and defeat the whole intent of the “defensive” stage because you have to block every possible avenue now.

 

Even if we decided to invest in more walls it would be a lot of extra work to haul everything down range and set it up for the 4-5 people who help with setup. For a small club (20-25 shooters) it is a PITA. 

I think this post really hits the nail on the head. I used to design stages with somewhere through the stage there would be a pickup gun, like a revolver or shotgun, that you would have to engage targets with.  this is no longer allowed and that was a lot of fun.

[CraigS]

On 8/7/2022 at 8:28 PM, r4ndy said:

The last two batches of rule changes have made it much more difficult to efficiently and cost effectively put on a good club match IMO. Also the change where you can’t require a non shooting action has eliminated a lot of fun stage options. We have to get really creative and/or limit movement with fault lines or tons of barrels in order to block people from going around walls on what is meant to be out of bounds and gaming the stages. I have seen stage designers create some cool stages and someone figures out how to go around things and defeat the whole intent of the “defensive” stage because you have to block every possible avenue now.

 

Even if we decided to invest in more walls it would be a lot of extra work to haul everything down range and set it up for the 4-5 people who help with setup. For a small club (20-25 shooters) it is a PITA. 

I am only in my 4th year of idpa but I don't understand this. I see a lot of directions in the individual stage descriptions saying something like engage T3-T5 from shooting position 2. I know that we try to use walls/barrels to accomplish similar and I much prefer stages that from position 2 you can ONLY see T3-T5 but I haven't seen much, if any, of what you describe. One problem we talk about is the orange snow fencing we use you can obviously see through. But for us, that seems to just allow a target around a wall to be seen before you can shoot it. Heck we saw it during the walk though so no big deal.

[RePete]

I have run matches at a number of clubs, and now run Action Handgun at my club.  IDPA the way it was shot in 2007.  My rulebook is 4 pages.

 

I was one of the first 6 SOI's in Canada - we were all from the same club.  

 

I'm no longer a member of IDPA because they haven't written a rulebook well enough because they keep using very poor amateurs to write it.

 

They say one thing and then change their minds later.  The debates of the rules on this forum, IDPA forum are too many.

[usmc1974]

I have talked to a lot of good shooters, they tell me they left when every point down, went to 1 second. I started IDPA in 96 (AO1668) I knew the rules then, but to be honest I really don't know the rules today..

[RePete]

The 1 point down didn't bother me.  When IDPA started it was 1 point down.  We didn't lose many shooters because of it.

[GOF]

On 8/7/2022 at 7:19 PM, Joe4d said:

IDPA has never really offered value for membership or club affiliation. Been that way since the 90,s, Clubs knew if they tried to enforce that one match thing they wouldnt have any shooters.
Seems I have probably shot more "Defensive" pistol matches using IDPA rules than affiliated

 

There are gun clubs whose bylaws state that any club member would be allowed to shoot any match held at that club. Joyce doesn't like that because she's not getting membership fees from people who shoot IDPA matches, but have no interest in joining the organization, or shooting beyond Tier 1 level club matches. It seems that Joyce has recently decided that clubs are no longer allowed to let non-members shoot IDPA matches? I know of one NE Florida club that has been IDPA affiliated since at least 2007 that is no longer affiliated and is now holding "Defensive matches using IDPA guidelines". Another club 50 miles to the west of that one has been cancelling IDPA matches. No reason given.

 

It's no secret that IDPA lost a lot of members when Joyce Fowler took over after "winning IDPA" when she divorced Bill. Her (paraphrase) 'Don' let the door hit ya', statement, when long time members started complaining about some of her idiot new rules (anyone remember the 'Joyce Shuffle' while reloading?). Some shooters decided to let the door hit them. After the membership drop she tried to win them back by making it USPSA Lite.... now there's something else going on that's causing clubs to drop their affiliation. 

 

One has to wonder what it is... and if IDPA actually has any adult leadership.

 

 

Edited August 16, 2022 by GOF

[RePete]

20 minutes ago, GOF said:

There are gun clubs whose bylaws state that any club member would be allowed to shoot any match held at that club. Joyce doesn't like that because she's not getting membership fees from people who shoot IDPA matches, but have no interest in joining the organization, or shooting beyond Tier 1 level club matches. It seems that Joyce has recently decided that clubs are no longer allowed to let non-members shoot IDPA matches? 

 

She won't have any luck enforcing that rule because more clubs will leave if she tried..

 

20 minutes ago, GOF said:

 

It's no secret that IDPA lost a lot of members when Joyce Fowler took over after "winning IDPA" when she divorced Bill. Her (paraphrase) 'Don' let the door hit ya', statement, when long time members started complaining about some of her idiot new rules (anyone remember the 'Joyce Shuffle' while reloading?). Some shooters decided to let the door hit them. After the membership drop she tried to win them back by making it USPSA Lite.... now there's something else going on that's causing clubs to drop their affiliation. 

 

One has to wonder what it is... and if IDPA actually has any adult leadership.

 

 

 

It's been IPSC Lite since 2017.  As I said it's being run by amateurs who think that they are adults.   There is nothing defensive about IDPA now.  It's a lost cause IMO.

[Joe4d]

not sure you can say Joyce recently decided,,, Was the rule back when IDPA started. You had to join to shoot more than your first match.. 
It was also ignored back when it first started. 
I may get board and read the current rule book and see whats what. Who knows maybe I will like it if there is any around. Would enjoy a USPSA style match that the scoring favored shooting over running

 

[Zincwarrior]

9 minutes ago, Joe4d said:

Would enjoy a USPSA style match that the scoring favored shooting over running

Thats IDPA. Much of the rest of it is club specific. I shoot at different clubs (poorly, not like you fine fellows).  Some run stages very close to old line IDPA, some are really just 18 round USPSA stages, it just depends on the club.  And all of them are fun to me.