Need advice on an Open gun.

[apoc4lypse]

Hi guys, I'm M in Open and mainly got there shooting a single stack 1911 with a frame mounted optic and short comp.  I ended up selling the gun because it had issues particularly with the aluminum frame it was built on.  I bought a Canik Rival to try and shoot Open and wasn't really impressed.  So I guess I'm open (haha) to suggestions for what you would consider an ideal Open gun for SCSA.

 

As a caveat, I don't shoot USPSA, so I'd rather this gun be light weight for fast transitions.  I got to shoot a Staccato XC recently and was very impressed.  It was a friend's gun so I didn't draw from holster, but was able to shoot it from low ready on S&H for a 1.62s string, which is similar to what I get on my VQ Black Mamba.  I think the polymer grip reducing the weight along with the single port comp for regular 9mm loads makes it effective for SCSA, though perhaps it would not be competitive for USPSA Open as it isn't meant for major PF.

 

Is there a better option out there?  Budget is around the $4500 range as the XC is that price.

Edited June 7, 2022 by apoc4lypse

[revolver45]

Check out the Wilson Combat EDC X9 Series.  Comes in 4" and 5" models with 18 round mags and is less that $3500.00. I just bought the 4" cut for an RMR. Pretty sweet tool for the job. 

[bigdawgbeav]

The Canik can be made a little better with the Freedomsmith trigger.  Also, I built a dedicated Open gun for my Canik TP9SFx utilizing an under frame pic rail.  Carver Custom makes one for direct mounting of dots, but never got it to fit right.  On mine I am running a Holosun 510c (I know, looks goofy).  Most of the undermount rails were kinda high over the slide, but I found one that was a lot lower.  If it's too long for your liking, then just chop some of it off.  I did have to sand down my Double Alpha insert to make it fit better.  

(https://amazon.com/gp/product/B07VWV5WM2/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1)

[bigdawgbeav]

[zzt]

I built a dedicated 1911 Open gun specifically for SCSA.  It balances exactly the same as my 2011 Open guns.  I put wider grips on so it feels almost the same.  10-round 9mm 1911 mags are cheap, and they work.  If you are never going to shoot USPSA, a 1911 based Open gun is a lot less expensive than a double stack, and no less effective.

 

You may want to consider using poppels instead of a comp.  They will be more effective at flattening the gun than a comp will (with SCSA specific loads).  Also, you can use faster powders to keep pressure up.  You can buy a first rate 1911 and have ports put in for less than half your budget.  One or two 3/16" poppels should do the trick.  My local smith/machinist charged me $25 to put three 5/32" poppels in my latest Open build.  The slot in the slide was already there.  It would have been another $25 if he had to mill it.

 

BTW, consider something other than an STI Staccato.  They are not well built.

 

If you are considering shooting USPSA, go for a 2011 Open gun.  Buy two full length guide rods and reverse plugs.  That's what I do with my backup USPSA Open gun.  One setup is with a 10 lb. recoil spring for major.  The other is with a 6V for minor.  It works very well.  Same grip, same draw, same POI.  I do that because my home club does not allow major PF on steel.  All their USPSA style courses have some steel in them.

 

You could use that setup for both USPSA and SCSA.  In fact, I think I'll bring it to the next SCSA match as a backup to my 1911 Open.

[AzYooper]

I had switched from a full size 2011 open gun to a smaller, lighter Limcat Steelcat 2-3 years ago and I think it helps me shoot the stages faster. It has a 4.5" bushing (non-bull) barrel and light comp allowing it to transition quickly. The Steelcal is not listed on the Limcat website, but it is available if you ask them. 

Limcat placed 1st (KC Eusebio), 2nd (Muneki Samejima), and 8th (me) in Open at the WSSC so they can run fast.

 

[warpspeed]

IMHO, a comp on a sub-minor open gun is not needed ; all for looks. 

 

A bushing barreled 2011/1911 will work just fine. This is still a bit of a work in progress but it runs 100 pf loads just fine. Balances wonderfully.

 

For the life of me I can't remember why it has ambi's.  

 

 

 

 

 

[BentAero]

On 9/1/2022 at 6:05 PM, AzYooper said:

I had switched from a full size 2011 open gun to a smaller, lighter Limcat Steelcat 2-3 years ago and I think it helps me shoot the stages faster. It has a 4.5" bushing (non-bull) barrel and light comp allowing it to transition quickly. The Steelcal is not listed on the Limcat website, but it is available if you ask them. 

Limcat placed 1st (KC Eusebio), 2nd (Muneki Samejima), and 8th (me) in Open at the WSSC so they can run fast.

 

 

Oh man, I like that. I wish I hadn't seen that...

[STELLARTONE]

On 9/2/2022 at 8:05 AM, AzYooper said:

I had switched from a full size 2011 open gun to a smaller, lighter Limcat Steelcat 2-3 years ago and I think it helps me shoot the stages faster. It has a 4.5" bushing (non-bull) barrel and light comp allowing it to transition quickly. The Steelcal is not listed on the Limcat website, but it is available if you ask them. 

Limcat placed 1st (KC Eusebio), 2nd (Muneki Samejima), and 8th (me) in Open at the WSSC so they can run fast.

 

Thanks for sharing and congratulations on the finish!

 

What is your load recipe that you're using for this? 

Edited December 6, 2022 by STELLARTONE

[AzYooper]

1 hour ago, STELLARTONE said:

Thanks for sharing and congratulations on the finish!

 

What is your load recipe that you're using for this? 

Thanks.

 

3.5 gr Vihtavouri N320, 115 RMR HP

[JM_]

If you want a super light gun, either use popples or an aluminum comp on a 4.5ish length barrel. Slide lightening does make a difference too, but not necessary. And then replace recoil spring with a 6 or 7lb spring and tune your ammo to the point it'll just cycle while dirty. Popples will still make a big difference even with low power factor ammo. This Staccato P I had modified by DSC Gunworks is the flattest 9mm I have ever shot, better than any 9mm open with major pf ammo. Ignore the guy who said they aren't made well, not true at all. I also had it tri-topped to remove moving weight.

Side note I had it cut for an optics plate which removed a ton of moving weight and when its in the open config I use a 3d printed slide racker to fill the space.

Here is running with a slide mounted optic: https://www.facebook.com/100004276774569/videos/788593835817419/

[mscott]

4 hours ago, JM_ said:

If you want a super light gun, either use popples or an aluminum comp on a 4.5ish length barrel. Slide lightening does make a difference too, but not necessary. And then replace recoil spring with a 6 or 7lb spring and tune your ammo to the point it'll just cycle while dirty. Popples will still make a big difference even with low power factor ammo. This Staccato P I had modified by DSC Gunworks is the flattest 9mm I have ever shot, better than any 9mm open with major pf ammo. Ignore the guy who said they aren't made well, not true at all. I also had it tri-topped to remove moving weight.

Side note I had it cut for an optics plate which removed a ton of moving weight and when its in the open config I use a 3d printed slide racker to fill the space.

Here is running with a slide mounted optic: https://www.facebook.com/100004276774569/videos/788593835817419/

I like that V8 pattern. Might do that to my edge

[bradhe]

Briley makes a steel specific gun

[old558]

MPA DS9 DL Steel Challenge Pistol - MasterPiece Arms, Inc.

Just found these on line, might be worth a look.

[Kilrb]

On 12/15/2022 at 12:58 PM, JM_ said:

If you want a super light gun, either use popples or an aluminum comp on a 4.5ish length barrel. Slide lightening does make a difference too, but not necessary. And then replace recoil spring with a 6 or 7lb spring and tune your ammo to the point it'll just cycle while dirty. Popples will still make a big difference even with low power factor ammo. This Staccato P I had modified by DSC Gunworks is the flattest 9mm I have ever shot, better than any 9mm open with major pf ammo. Ignore the guy who said they aren't made well, not true at all. I also had it tri-topped to remove moving weight.

Side note I had it cut for an optics plate which removed a ton of moving weight and when its in the open config I use a 3d printed slide racker to fill the space.

Here is running with a slide mounted optic: https://www.facebook.com/100004276774569/videos/788593835817419/

I am currently building a 2011 similar to this with a 4.6" Bull Barrel and using a Cheely Aluminum Grip. 

[Pmatte1]

Bul SAS UR Shorty. Great quick light 2011 for steel challenge 

[riden]

On 12/31/2022 at 8:34 AM, Pmatte1 said:

Bul SAS UR Shorty. Great quick light 2011 for steel challenge 

I have been looking at them for SC! Where did you get yours?

[jubi351]

GP Arms is the leading Bul authority.

[Pmatte1]

2 hours ago, riden said:

I have been looking at them for SC! Where did you get yours?

Ordered it from them directly. I think they changed up their process recently with doing it even more direct off the website. But when I did it was email get put on waitlist then when your up they send you an invoice and FFL req

[old558]

On 12/15/2022 at 11:58 AM, JM_ said:

If you want a super light gun, either use popples or an aluminum comp on a 4.5ish length barrel. Slide lightening does make a difference too, but not necessary. And then replace recoil spring with a 6 or 7lb spring and tune your ammo to the point it'll just cycle while dirty. Popples will still make a big difference even with low power factor ammo. This Staccato P I had modified by DSC Gunworks is the flattest 9mm I have ever shot, better than any 9mm open with major pf ammo. Ignore the guy who said they aren't made well, not true at all. I also had it tri-topped to remove moving weight.

Side note I had it cut for an optics plate which removed a ton of moving weight and when its in the open config I use a 3d printed slide racker to fill the space.

Here is running with a slide mounted optic: https://www.facebook.com/100004276774569/videos/788593835817419/

What do you think of the DSC comp for staccato?

[JM_]

On 2/17/2023 at 4:39 PM, old558 said:

What do you think of the DSC comp for staccato?

Ive never used one but they are a good simple drop in option. I got mine ported and it's been great so far. Only good stuff from DSC.

 

You can also ask him to do a two port 9mm comp if you want more.

[old558]

On 2/18/2023 at 6:17 PM, JM_ said:

Ive never used one but they are a good simple drop in option. I got mine ported and it's been great so far. Only good stuff from DSC.

 

You can also ask him to do a two port 9mm comp if you want more.

Thank You, also what what grain bullit do you run?

[JM_]

On 2/20/2023 at 1:57 PM, old558 said:

Thank You, also what what grain bullit do you run?

I haven't messed around with it much, but currently 147s

[old558]

On 2/21/2023 at 7:52 PM, JM_ said:

I haven't messed around with it much, but currently 147s