2021 Locap Nats, what did you think?

[rowdyb]

If you shot it or watched the live stream, what did you think?

[Racinready300ex]

I didn't go, but it sounds like popper calibration does not need to be addressed at all. 

[EEH]

Your thoughts, looks like U did OK.

[BritinUSA]

1 hour ago, Racinready300ex said:

I didn't go, but it sounds like popper calibration does not need to be addressed at all. 

Were there issues again?

[Sarge]

I've seen a few videos. Looks like they were short of fault lines.

[Racinready300ex]

1 hour ago, BritinUSA said:

Were there issues again?

 

Apparently there was a popper that was known to be a issue and might of cost someone a title. 

[Sarge]

1 minute ago, Racinready300ex said:

 

Apparently there was a popper that was known to be a issue and might of cost someone a title. 

 I’ll bet there will be changes one of these days. That’s a shame at Nationals.

[BritinUSA]

Large or small popper, did it activate a moving target? Any details…. 

[Bucky]

I'm trying to understand the posted results. I see a lot of zero scores, but they have A,B,C... counts, but no time.

[motosapiens]

I know stage one ran flawlessly. i didn’t hear of any problems elsewhere talking to either shooters or RO’s, but the wind was blowing pretty good yesterday.

[Racinready300ex]

20 minutes ago, BritinUSA said:

Large or small popper, did it activate a moving target? Any details…. 

 

From the video I saw it was a big popper that did not activate anything, so it only cost him 15 points. The match was decided by .5 points. So any little hiccup over the 3 days could of changed the outcome. 

[Racinready300ex]

24 minutes ago, BritinUSA said:

Large or small popper, did it activate a moving target? Any details…. 

 

https://www.instagram.com/p/COsAPHQlME7/?igshid=f0gc0noafscn&fbclid=IwAR1JAhfBU72LQhdeIXOFNGeEAlNF2V5_XIf5uyDXWThfwCUHMkq-K6MarA0

 

 

[BritinUSA]

Thanks, I figured it was a large popper. Back when they were introduced, there were very few people shooting Minor. It’s just too much weight to overcome reliably with Minor ammo.

 

Personally, I would like to see USPSA/IPSC do away with all large poppers, just use the small ones, they are cheaper easier to carry/setup. Then get rid of popper calibration, if the majority of the bullet hit is above the calibration line then it’s a REF.

 

Alternatively ditch all the poppers and just use those plates that are attached to stands; I’ve seen a few of them that can activate targets. They are already treated as REF if they fail to fall when hit.

[BritinUSA]

Maybe this happening to JJ will turn into a good thing for the sport. Maybe now the BOD will fix this issue that has plagued this sport for the past 20 years.

[rowdyb]

I have quite a bit to write when I get home.

 

I did well for me, yes.

Edited May 10, 2021 by rowdyb

[RJH]

3 minutes ago, BritinUSA said:

Thanks, I figured it was a large popper. Back when they were introduced, there were very few people shooting Minor. It’s just too much weight to overcome reliably with Minor ammo.

 

Personally, I would like to see USPSA/IPSC do away with all large poppers, just use the small ones, they are cheaper easier to carry/setup. Then get rid of popper calibration, if the majority of the bullet hit is above the calibration line then it’s a REF.

 

Alternatively ditch all the poppers and just use those plates that are attached to stands; I’ve seen a few of them that can activate targets. They are already treated as REF if they fail to fall when hit.

 

I think just the opposite.  So one for and one against in the official vote

[mikeg1005]

1 hour ago, Racinready300ex said:

 

Apparently there was a popper that was known to be a issue and might of cost someone a title. 

 

The other 2 mikes, 2 no shoots, 5 charlie, 1 delta cost that person the title just as much as getting hosed by a popper. 

 

[BritinUSA]

The misses, no-shoots, C’s and Delta were the fault of the competitor, the popper was not.

 

The poppers (and the issues they cause) produce unpredictable results over which the competitor has no control. It is therefore an issue that can and should be resolved.
 

It is not possible to eliminate all elements of chance from this sport, but when it can be done, it should be done.

[Racinready300ex]

4 minutes ago, mikeg1005 said:

 

The other 2 mikes, 2 no shoots, 5 charlie, 1 delta cost that person the title just as much as getting hosed by a popper. 

 

 

This is the mindset that keeps the issue with popper calibration around. The last thing we want to do is improve a match. It's really his fault for not loading hotter anyway isn't it?

[NMBOpen]

1 hour ago, Bucky said:

I'm trying to understand the posted results. I see a lot of zero scores, but they have A,B,C... counts, but no time.

Failed equipment check/chrono sub-minor bump to Open (not recognized for this match so shooting for no score.

[Bagellord]

What's a realistic solution for calibration, then? Testing ammo that was not used to hit the popper does not tell you anything - it could have been one light round out of hundreds the competitor had with them. The most viable solution I've seen is to call it a REF if the hit is in the calibration zone, but that's also imperfect because it's much harder to tell exactly where a hit is on steel, such as with edge hits and obliquely angled hits.

[mikeg1005]

21 minutes ago, BritinUSA said:

The misses, no-shoots, C’s and Delta were the fault of the competitor, the popper was not.

 

The poppers (and the issues they cause) produce unpredictable results over which the competitor has no control. It is therefore an issue that can and should be resolved.
 

It is not possible to eliminate all elements of chance from this sport, but when it can be done, it should be done.

 

The popper didn't go on social media this morning crying about nationals, the competitor did.  

 

Not to mention his approach was not to bring awareness to the popper issue, but rather complaining about why he lost, which read as though he was nullifying Nil's win. 

 

19 minutes ago, Racinready300ex said:

 

This is the mindset that keeps the issue with popper calibration around. The last thing we want to do is improve a match. It's really his fault for not loading hotter anyway isn't it?

 

No, HQ being lazy is the reason popper calibration issues aren't addressed.. and I'm also VERY loud/pro fixing the existing rules.

 

JJ had 74 other reasons (70 charlies, 2 mikes, 2 no shoots) that lost him the match, he chose to write a "poor me" about the popper instead.     

 

 

[ChuckS]

27 minutes ago, NMBOpen said:

Failed equipment check/chrono sub-minor bump to Open (not recognized for this match so shooting for no score.

There was an open division. (A friend won!) 

https://uspsa.org/match-results-details?index=41092

[BritinUSA]

6 minutes ago, Bagellord said:

What's a realistic solution for calibration, then?

Use plates instead, cheaper, lighter, and no calibration zone as the whole plate constitutes a hit.

[Bagellord]

Just now, BritinUSA said:

Use plates instead, cheaper, lighter, and no calibration zone as the whole plate constitutes a hit.

 

Falling plates can't really be used as activators (plus there's other issues - they can spin, the bases can lean if the ground isn't hard enough, and they create a lot more spall in my experience). Unless you mean poppers that aren't hinged and just sit on a base, which the cheap ones can have their own problems.