Shadow 2 OR in Production

[WxGuy]

After an exhausting search, I did not find an answer to "if a S2 OR was Production legal" thread.  I see the S2 OR is not on the Prod list and have emailed USPSA for a simple clarification.  Maybe someone who knows can shed some light?  It's not a big issue, was just curious.

Thanks!

[jejb]

Yes, it's legal in production for USPSA. Weight disqualified it at first, but USPSA has increased max weight now and the S2 OR easily makes it.

[GeneBray]

The 2 Orange is USPSA Production legal and it is on the Production gun list 

 

 

Edited March 27, 2021 by GeneBray

[WxGuy]

Got my answer over the weekend.  The S2 OR is not production legal.

There you have it straight from Troy/USPSA.

[18111811]

I really wonder what the logic is behind that vs allowing other guns that are optic ready on the production list.  The more i listen to the Stoeger podcast and read some of the threads here, I have come to the conclusion that the governing body of uspsa is a bit detached from the membership

[broadside72]

I thought you bought an S2 and just replaced with the slide with an OFM OR ready one..... 

[SJBriggs]

3 hours ago, WxGuy said:

Got my answer over the weekend.  The S2 OR is not production legal.

There you have it straight from Troy/USPSA.

Is it not legal simply because it hasn't been put on the list, or because it can accommodate an optic?

[WxGuy]

Email says it is a variant of the S2.

 

[broadside72]

The same argument applies to the Bull Shadow 2. The frame is a Shadow 2. No one is arguing that. Since the rules allow one to replace basically everything but the frame, buying or building a Bull Shadow 2 makes no difference. Same thing should apply here. The OP's Shadow 2 frame is the same whether or not its OR from the factory or if he swapped the slide with an OFM one or sent it to get milled, all because the rules say the slide can be cut and be be replaced.

Edited March 29, 2021 by broadside72

[broadside72]

7 minutes ago, WxGuy said:

Email says it is a variant of the S2.

 

The only variation from the S2 is something you can buy and install yourself and be prod legal and have the exact same gun as you have now.

[B_RAD]

So, I want to understand here.  NROI is saying this is NOT legal?

 

But the rules were changed to allow any hammer, trigger, non OEM external part?

 

That's funny. And sad at the same time. 

[broadside72]

2 minutes ago, B_RAD said:

So, I want to understand here.  NROI is saying this is NOT legal?

 

But the rules were changed to allow any hammer, trigger, non OEM external part?

 

That's funny. And sad at the same time. 

Before the BS2 was on the list, it was the same argument they used for that. They basically said (in a post to NROI blog now removed) "You can't buy a Bull Shadow 2, but you can buy an Shadow 2 and send it to CZC and have one made"

[B_RAD]

16 minutes ago, broadside72 said:

Before the BS2 was on the list, it was the same argument they used for that. They basically said (in a post to NROI blog now removed) "You can't buy a Bull Shadow 2, but you can buy an Shadow 2 and send it to CZC and have one made"

Edited.  I understand what you're saying now. 

 

My comment was that a variant of the S2 (made by the original manufacturer) isn't legal?

 

But they'll allow you to cut the reg S2 and add any aftermarket parts you desire?

 

 

If this is in fact the case, that's crazy!

 

 

Also, I pretty sure that the proper paperwork will be submitted shortly. 

Edited March 29, 2021 by B_RAD

[broadside72]

You followed just fine.

 

Look at the production list and you see the Shadow 2 but not the Shadow 2 OR. Now look at the rules for production and you will see that you can replace the slide and even cut the slide. So you can buy the Shadow 2 OR slide by itself and install it on a regular Shadow 2 and be production legal, but if you buy a Shadow 2 OR from the factory, you are not production legal. 

 

And you are correct, it is crazy. But unless the production list starts tracking serial numbers by model they really don't know if you your gun was built at the factory OR or if you added an OR slide afterward. Any reasonable RM would understand this. 

[Racinready300ex]

12 minutes ago, B_RAD said:

I'm not following what you getting at. Could you go into more detail?

 

My comment was that a variant of the S2 (made by the original manufacturer) isn't legal?

 

But they'll allow you to cut the reg S2 and add any aftermarket parts you desire?

 

 

If this is in fact the case, that's crazy!

 

 

Also, I pretty sure that the proper paperwork will be submitted shortly. 

 

I think he's say a S2 OR is illegal but, you can buy a plain S2 and buy all the S2 OR parts and install them and have a legal S2 that is identical to a S2 OR......And I'm sure chrono guy will run the serial number and determine if your gun is legal or not. 

 

Honestly the stupidity of the rules is starting to get to me. I almost want to go back to IDPA. 

 

 

[GeneBray]

Not certain I understand Troy's comment about not legal.  I am assuming, maybe incorrectly, the S2 Orange is a Shadow 2 Orange.  If that is not correct then I'm wrong.  Also, just looked at CZs site, they only list the Shadow 2 Orange.  Attached is a screen capture from the USPSA website, Production Gun list, and it shows the Shadow 2 Orange as production legal.  

[broadside72]

Shadow 2 OR is "Optics Ready" version, not the Orange.

[WxGuy]

Here's the whole thing.

 

Question:  I was wondering why the CZ S2 OR is not on the Production List?  I would like to buy one to remain in Production and dabble in Carry Optics without buying all the other parts and pieces, or another gun.

Thank you,

 

Answer:  

Because it's simply a variant of the CZ Shadow 2, milled for optics.

 

Troy

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I had the chance to buy a S2 OR LE program gun but will not now.  No biggie.

[Silverscooby27]

I think Troy is saying it IS legal, and is not listed specifically in the production list because it is considered a Shadow 2, and is not distinguished separately as a “Shadow 2 OR” because it is a variant of a Shadow 2. I don’t see in that email that he answered the specific question of “Is a Shadow 2 OR legal for production division”. You only asked why it wasn’t on the production list, which is not the same question.

[Russty]

Troy is saying that it's not on the list because it doesn't need a separate allowance. A legal variant is on the list (the Shadow 2) and, since variants are legal,  it doesn't need to be listed. You asked the wrong question and he gave the correct answer to that question. The OR is legal, as it is a variant of a legal gun. It is unfortunate that he didn't clear up your confusion by simply stating that you could legally use the OR in Production.

Edited March 29, 2021 by Russty
Clarity

[IHAVEGAS]

I gave up trying to communicate with Troy when reaching underneath a virtual wall to grab a dropped mag came up. 

 

He said you can because it is a virtual wall from ground up, as I read the words it is a virtual wall all of the time for all circumstances rather than something that blocks bullets but allows hands to pass through.

 

Could be entirely my fault, regardless, we are not on the same wavelength.

[WxGuy]

Copy all!  Thanks everyone.

[rowdyb]

I shot my Optic Ready Shadow 2 at Prod nats last year with its iron sights. No issues at all.

Edited March 29, 2021 by rowdyb

[broadside72]

3 hours ago, WxGuy said:

Here's the whole thing.

 

Question:  I was wondering why the CZ S2 OR is not on the Production List?  I would like to buy one to remain in Production and dabble in Carry Optics without buying all the other parts and pieces, or another gun.

Thank you,

 

Answer:  

Because it's simply a variant of the CZ Shadow 2, milled for optics.

 

Troy

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I had the chance to buy a S2 OR LE program gun but will not now.  No biggie.

That context changes how I viewed your original post. Sounds like he is saying it is legal. 

My previous comments about the list and acceptable changes making equivalent items on the list stands though.

[shred]

Good Lord, there was a giant cover-article in Front Sight about 4 issues ago on the Shadow 2 OR where they call it "ideal for Production and Carry Optics".  If anyone bitches at you about it, shove a copy of that mag at them.