Dillon sizing die concerns

[Indy574]

I have a Dillon 550 press with new Dillon .357 dies. When I size my brass I get a half moon/ring near the case head. This happens maybe 50% of the time. I am firing this brass out several handguns.

I called Dillon and they sent me a new die, but that one was doing the same thing if not worse. Dillon said it’s either the die or the brass and nothing else. I then sent both sizing dies back along with some brass and they said the carbide insert was canted ever so slightly. When I began sizing brass again it still put the cut/ring in the brass, maybe not quite as bad. 
I also received a new indexing ring as mine was tight on some of my brass which did tilt the brass and emphasizing the issue.

Frustrated with the situation I loaded new brass and shot them through each gun. I then sized each brass and found one cylinder on each of two guns that could be the problem. I also ran the Dillon sizing die on my RCBS rock chucker with no change. It’s only when I swapped out the Dillon sizing die to my RCBS sizing on the Dillon press did the problem go away. 
Do Dillon sizing dies undersize further than RCBS?   Should I send S&W in the two gun for a check up?
  

[GrumpyOne]

I can't speak for the 357 Dillon dies, but, their other dies do size smaller than others. I use Lee dies for 357 on a 550 and have never had an issue.

[Sarge]

2 minutes ago, GrumpyOne said:

I can't speak for the 357 Dillon dies, but, their other dies do size smaller than others. I use Lee dies for 357 on a 550 and have never had an issue.

I don’t know about that. I got a lot of setback with my 9mm Dillon dies. The EGW/LEE Udie cured it so I know the Udie sizes smaller.

[Sarge]

1 hour ago, Indy574 said:

I have a Dillon 550 press with new Dillon .357 dies. When I size my brass I get a half moon/ring near the case head. This happens maybe 50% of the time. I am firing this brass out several handguns.

I called Dillon and they sent me a new die, but that one was doing the same thing if not worse. Dillon said it’s either the die or the brass and nothing else. I then sent both sizing dies back along with some brass and they said the carbide insert was canted ever so slightly. When I began sizing brass again it still put the cut/ring in the brass, maybe not quite as bad. 
I also received a new indexing ring as mine was tight on some of my brass which did tilt the brass and emphasizing the issue.

Frustrated with the situation I loaded new brass and shot them through each gun. I then sized each brass and found one cylinder on each of two guns that could be the problem. I also ran the Dillon sizing die on my RCBS rock chucker with no change. It’s only when I swapped out the Dillon sizing die to my RCBS sizing on the Dillon press did the problem go away. 
Do Dillon sizing dies undersize further than RCBS?   Should I send S&W in the two gun for a check up?
  

Are you lubing the cases? Only time I get something like that is running non lubed cases. Lube cures it for me.

[Furrly]

Simple answer, switch dies 

[Indy574]

52 minutes ago, Sarge said:

Are you lubing the cases? Only time I get something like that is running non lubed cases. Lube cures it for me.

I haven’t lubed any of my pistol brass since switching to a Dillon press. I’ve loaded thousands between 9mm, 45acp and 44mag.  The 357 has been the only one with the issue. I’m curious to see what will happen when I start loading 38sp? That’ll be interesting to see. 

[Indy574]

49 minutes ago, Furrly said:

Simple answer, switch dies 

Yeah, it’s kinda where I am at. Little frustrated with the situation.

[GrumpyOne]

1 hour ago, Sarge said:

I don’t know about that. I got a lot of setback with my 9mm Dillon dies. The EGW/LEE Udie cured it so I know the Udie sizes smaller.

On my 9mm Dillon dies, no matter how hard I push it on the bench, I can't get it setback...

[Tom Freeman]

Add some lube.

 

Yes.  I know they are carbide dies and lube isnt required.

 

But try it and I bet it helps.

 

It is one of those cant hurt, might help kind of deals.

[Sarge]

10 minutes ago, Tom Freeman said:

Add some lube.

 

Yes.  I know they are carbide dies and lube isnt required.

 

But try it and I bet it helps.

 

It is one of those cant hurt, might help kind of deals.

And, almost every person who has ever said they don’t need lube converts to using lube after it’s suggested. And the rest probably do convert but are too stubborn to admit it. 
 I can’t imagine loading without case lube.

[ddc]

14 minutes ago, Sarge said:

And, almost every person who has ever said they don’t need lube converts to using lube after it’s suggested. And the rest probably do convert but are too stubborn to admit it. 
 I can’t imagine loading without case lube.

 

Ditto

[AHI]

Don't waist any more brass. Put the RCBS sizer in your press. Then inform Dillon about this .Don't forget to tell them another brand of sizer fixed your issue.

It just may be that Dillon has Quite a few defective dies. 

    

If the RCBS die was doing the same thing then I would say you have a alignment problem.( Shell plate or tool head) cases not being pushed all the way into shell plate.

 

Edited September 11, 2020 by AHI

[Furrly]

16 hours ago, Indy574 said:

Yeah, it’s kinda where I am at. Little frustrated with the situation.

I have never had any luck with Dillion Sizing dies

[Nolan]

If that is only happening on one side of the case and only part of the time, the case isn't always going all the way into the shell plate.  Either the shell plate is too tight, is dirty, the spring retainer is mis-adjusted or you're just not pushing the case fully into the shell plate.  The RCBS die may have more taper to the bottom of the die that allows the case to center in the shell plate, where the Dillon die has a pretty sharp bottom edge.

 

 

Nolan

[Indy574]

19 hours ago, Nolan said:

If that is only happening on one side of the case and only part of the time, the case isn't always going all the way into the shell plate.  Either the shell plate is too tight, is dirty, the spring retainer is mis-adjusted or you're just not pushing the case fully into the shell plate.  The RCBS die may have more taper to the bottom of the die that allows the case to center in the shell plate, where the Dillon die has a pretty sharp bottom edge.

 

 

Nolan

Everything is set up properly, the case is fully being sized. I feel this is a combination of having an expanded chamber and the Dillon sizing die being internally smaller than other manufacturers. Maybe the brass is slightly distorted at the head/lip causing it to cant when entering the die. 

[Tom Freeman]

I had this same problem with 223 brass and a Dillon Carbide Trim die.

 

I added more lube and it went away.

[stick]

I think it's something to do with the Dillon die not truly fully sizing the case.  I use Lee dies to resize and I don't have that problem.

[Nolan]

 

19 hours ago, stick said:

I think it's something to do with the Dillon die not truly fully sizing the case.  I use Lee dies to resize and I don't have that problem.

 

I think it has more to do with the shape of the bottom edge of the Dillon die.  If the case starts a little bit crooked like when the case rim is not fully seated in the shell plate, the Dillon die is less forgiving about straightening the case until the rim is fully seated in the shell plate.

 

It would be interesting to mark 10 rounds, then fire them is the suspect cylinders and then resize 5 of them with the Dillon die being very careful of their position in the shell plate and see what the results were.  Then switch to the RCBS die and repeat.

 

Or just switch to the RCBS die and carry on.

 

Nolan

[stick]

2 hours ago, Nolan said:

 

 

I think it has more to do with the shape of the bottom edge of the Dillon die.  If the case starts a little bit crooked like when the case rim is not fully seated in the shell plate, the Dillon die is less forgiving about straightening the case until the rim is fully seated in the shell plate.

 

It would be interesting to mark 10 rounds, then fire them is the suspect cylinders and then resize 5 of them with the Dillon die being very careful of their position in the shell plate and see what the results were.  Then switch to the RCBS die and repeat.

 

Or just switch to the RCBS die and carry on.

 

Nolan

You're probably right!  I remember hearing/reading something about the Dillon dies. I Love their machines, but I've never used Dillon dies.  I actually use Lee and RCBS.

[OptimiStick]

have you thoroughly cleaned the offending Dillon die? I had this problem with 9mm. When I tracked it down it was dirt/shavings accumulating on my Lee Factory Crimp die (which has a carbide sizing ring also). It was accumulating enough crud that it was sizing tighter than normal, leaving that 'belt' near the rim where it didn't get sized. Cleaning it corrected it for a while,then I just swapped it with a normal crimp die. It only happens on 1 of my presses.

 

+1 for Lubing pistol. No its not necessary, but makes everything so much easier/smoother.

[MG08]

On 9/11/2020 at 1:39 PM, Nolan said:

If that is only happening on one side of the case and only part of the time, the case isn't always going all the way into the shell plate.  Either the shell plate is too tight, is dirty, the spring retainer is mis-adjusted or you're just not pushing the case fully into the shell plate.  The RCBS die may have more taper to the bottom of the die that allows the case to center in the shell plate, where the Dillon die has a pretty sharp bottom edge.

 

 

Nolan

This was my first thought.  Clean the press and focus on the shell plate. And use lube. I found sizing infinitely easier when it is used and less brass issues with lube.

[ysrracer]

OP, call Dillon and ask them for a free alignment tool. Make sure your platform is in "time".

 

https://www.dillonprecision.com/rl-550-series-xl-650-platform-alignment-tool_8_6_26408.html

Edited September 19, 2020 by ysrracer

[muncie21]

I have had the same issue with 9mm cases.  It didn't happen all the time and switching to a lee sizing die (from Dillon) fixed the issue. 

 

On 9/10/2020 at 7:05 PM, Indy574 said:

When I size my brass I get a half moon/ring near the case head.  

 

 

Edited September 19, 2020 by muncie21

[Indy574]

20 hours ago, ysrracer said:

OP, call Dillon and ask them for a free alignment tool. Make sure your platform is in "time".

 

https://www.dillonprecision.com/rl-550-series-xl-650-platform-alignment-tool_8_6_26408.html

Thanks, I kinda wondered about that. However wouldn’t the priming mechanism be an indicator of this as well? I don’t seem to be having priming issues. 

[Indy574]

18 hours ago, muncie21 said:

I have had the same issue with 9mm cases.  It didn't happen all the time and switching to a lee sizing die (from Dillon) fixed the issue. 

 

 

 

Interesting, I figured having the longer cases was emphasizing something that wasn’t noticed on my shorter calibers. I left my RCBS sizing die on that tool head.