Well looks like Mark 7 / Lyman have some new Competition. Excited to see what this brings about (Dillon buys Ammobot)

[mikey_golds]

1 minute ago, AHI said:

You were talking a pallet so https://www.rotometals.com/pallet-hardball-bullet-alloy-ingots-1000-pounds-freight-included-2-tin-6-antimony-and-92-lead/

then I just went to a coated bullet vender did not add any discount codes etc https://www.snscasting.com/cart.php yes they have a discount on large orders

i can redo my calcs on pallet ordering, it was easier to do it based on bullet quantity and work that way but yeah ordering that pallet above your CPR that i did would go down

[AHI]

Thear is a learning curve in making bullets your first 10-20 thousand will be less than acceptable.

It will take a while but you can make some very good bullets . Just my opinion you mentioned automating 

a LEE product   dont waste your time and money.  Thoes that are trying to are not doing that high of volume.

and having lots of problems.

 

[mikey_golds]

At least with casting there is little waste, first 10-20K go right back into the pot to be melted back down. 

[DJRyan13]

Casting savings comes when you start casting for bullets that are hard to find or expensive... 

Examples:

1. 45-70/458 socom - note those heavy 500 gr bullets eat a lot of lead... only 14 per pound! 
2. slugs.... I am a huge fan of the Lyman sabot 12ga mold. Shooting it in a modified Vepr with rifled barrel and Salvo suppressor... 

3. Hollow point molds... I am not aware of any company making HP bullets

4. Bullets for antiques or black powder... you really need to customize bullet to your gun.

 

BTW... you can take the pot off the master caster and place on a stand that Magma will sell you for about $150 I think. Allows you to hand cast with pot. Only takes two bolts to remove pot. Going to want it if you plan to buy any odd molds. Stand basically turns it into a “Master Pot” - see their site.

their pots are really top notch.

Edited June 10, 2020 by DJRyan13

[dansedgli]

I use a magma caster and get free lead.

 

It takes too long to bother selling them. When the wife goes away once a year I spend a week or so casting, cooking and sizing bullets after work and on the weekend. 

 

The commercial setups have way more production ability but cost a ton more money. I havent bought bullets for 9 minor, 40 cal or 357 sig for 3 years now. I still buy copper coated bullets for my open gun because the lead is too messy. 

My gear has easily paid for itself. I cringe every time I pay for bullets now. 

 

I automated the master caster but it breaks all the time so I havent been using it. I think my valves are busted or something. The air cylinders are really violent and I can't seem to tune it out and still have it open and close the sprue plate properly. It also closes the sprue plate too hard sometimes and the holes don't line up right.  

 

 

 

[dannyd]

14 minutes ago, dansedgli said:

I use a magma caster and get free lead.

 

It takes too long to bother selling them. When the wife goes away once a year I spend a week or so casting, cooking and sizing bullets after work and on the weekend. 

 

The commercial setups have way more production ability but cost a ton more money. I havent bought bullets for 9 minor, 40 cal or 357 sig for 3 years now. I still buy copper coated bullets for my open gun because the lead is too messy. 

My gear has easily paid for itself. I cringe every time I pay for bullets now. 

 

I automated the master caster but it breaks all the time so I havent been using it. I think my valves are busted or something. The air cylinders are really violent and I can't seem to tune it out and still have it open and close the sprue plate properly. It also closes the sprue plate too hard sometimes and the holes don't line up right.  

 

 

 

I went 28 years without buying bullets.  When I started reloading box of 50 38 special cost me .35 cents.   When primers started going for 25.00 a 5000 we thought the world was coming to an end.   I do love that young mans math if it only worked like that it would be great.

[mikey_golds]

I went 28 years without buying bullets.  When I started reloading box of 50 38 special cost me .35 cents.   When primers started going for 25.00 a 5000 we thought the world was coming to an end.   I do love that young mans math if it only worked like that it would be great.

Lol I mean formula wise it should work like my math


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[DJRyan13]

10 minutes ago, dansedgli said:

I use a magma caster and get free lead.

 

It takes too long to bother selling them. When the wife goes away once a year I spend a week or so casting, cooking and sizing bullets after work and on the weekend. 

 

The commercial setups have way more production ability but cost a ton more money. I havent bought bullets for 9 minor, 40 cal or 357 sig for 3 years now. I still buy copper coated bullets for my open gun because the lead is too messy. 

My gear has easily paid for itself. I cringe every time I pay for bullets now. 

 

I automated the master caster but it breaks all the time so I havent been using it. I think my valves are busted or something. The air cylinders are really violent and I can't seem to tune it out and still have it open and close the sprue plate properly. It also closes the sprue plate too hard sometimes and the holes don't line up right.  

 

 

 

there is definitely an art to getting it setup right and has to be reset for each mold. 
 

adjustments:

1. Air flow valve - there is an up and down.

down: if too little flow, you won’t counter the friction in the rails. If too much, force is too much tossing the bullets too hard and spinning the sprue too far which prevents it from reseating on way back

up: too fast spins the sprue out of alignment, too slow - doesn’t counter friction in rails.

2. rails- got to be tight enough that the mold stays closed. As mold heats up, mold expands so you can’t start out so tight that it gets too tight when it expands.

3. the sprue spinning pin at front of MC can’t spin the sprue plate too much. -typically doesn’t need adjustment when switching molds
4. the sprue stop pin (right under pot) has to be set so it doesn’t move sprue too far. - I have found some setups require adjustment with different molds 

5. The delays and pauses and lead pour time are all critical and should be recorded in notebook for each mold. I have mine setup to do a double tap to eject. His numbers for delays and stuff are in millisecond I think which seems silly to me. I guess it gives you finer tuning. Set the numbers (like double tap) too low and it won’t do anything. Valves need more time to actuate. I have been unable to get good consistent results with my big bullets like 500gr 45-70 bullets... you need a longer cool down and pot lead level drops so fast your pour time needs to be adjusted over time as it slows down pour rate. I get excellent results with 240gr and below bullets once it’s tuned. I ran a ton of 45 colt (another expensive bullet), 40, and 44-40 bullets earlier this year. I run fewer of the 45-70 so I am ok with pulling handle for that.

[Intheshaw1]

4 hours ago, mikey_golds said:

 

Edit #1 -->

I did the depreciation math, here we go 

Magma Mark 8 Casts 5,000 per hour. Run that 24 hours a day = 120,000 Bullets a day

Every day for a year = 43,800,000 

machine cost = 12,500 / 30 = 417 dollars of depreciation per year

each bullet depreciates the machine   0.00000951 

 

adding that in to our bottom two from above

Lyman #2 CPR =   0.06197951294

Hardball CPR =    0.05286951294 

 

I would depreciate the machine over 10 years or less and I doubt your running it 24/7. Will you even run it an hour every day?

 

I would run it based on what you actually think the rate you'll be running it at, otherwise you're diluting your numbers.

 

Other method is to depreciate it based on total estimates hours of life to come up with a per bullet rate.

 

If I had access to free lead I would cast my own, but I don't so I buy instead.

[mikey_golds]

5 minutes ago, Intheshaw1 said:

 

I would depreciate the machine over 10 years or less and I doubt your running it 24/7. Will you even run it an hour every day?

 

I would run it based on what you actually think the rate you'll be running it at, otherwise you're diluting your numbers.

 

Other method is to depreciate it based on total estimates hours of life to come up with a per bullet rate.

 

If I had access to free lead I would cast my own, but I don't so I buy instead.

 was just was easy to do 24/7 cause then you get the per bullet method. hourly will be a better method

[Intheshaw1]

2 minutes ago, mikey_golds said:

 was just was easy to do 24/7 cause then you get the per bullet method. hourly will be a better method

There's nothing wrong with that way, but it won't last 30 years. Maybe run it 24/7 for 5 years?

[mikey_golds]

Just now, Intheshaw1 said:

There's nothing wrong with that way, but it won't last 30 years. Maybe run it 24/7 for 5 years?

oh i wont run it 24/7 ever just to figure out how much material plus machine cost is per bullet. if 12.5K and it can only last 5 years at 24/7 thats low quality machine work. 

[Intheshaw1]

55 minutes ago, mikey_golds said:

oh i wont run it 24/7 ever just to figure out how much material plus machine cost is per bullet. if 12.5K and it can only last 5 years at 24/7 thats low quality machine work. 

Most machines aren't run 24/7 they may be run 8 hours a day. So the 24/7 calc would be more like 15 years of life on a machine. And it's not to say it won't last longer, it's just that things will start breaking and repair costs will start adding up. All of which add to the cost of the machine and the per bullet cost. 

 

If I was running the numbers for myself to see if it's worth it, I would use the shortest reasonable timeframe to take the most conservative approach to the costs of equipment, similar to what manufacturing companies do.

 

But if you want to do it because you enjoy it, then it doesn't matter either way.

[MikeyScuba]

 

 

This is turning out to be a trip down the rabbit hole I’m not going down anytime soon.  Now I see why nobody really casts around here.

 

I do have to say we sure are getting one hell of a deal on coated bullets.  I for one had to load 25 boxes to a truck once , my shooters elbow let me know it’s displeasure loud and clear.  Doing what 50-100 boxes a day?  That’s a tough way to make a living.  An Aussie revo shooter I’ve met owns a bullet company in Perth and his knee is going and his back needs surgery.

[mikey_golds]

6 minutes ago, MikeyScuba said:

 

 

This is turning out to be a trip down the rabbit hole I’m not going down anytime soon.  Now I see why nobody really casts around here.

 

I do have to say we sure are getting one hell of a deal on coated bullets.  I for one had to load 25 boxes to a truck once , my shooters elbow let me know it’s displeasure loud and clear.  Doing what 50-100 boxes a day?  That’s a tough way to make a living.  An Aussie revo shooter I’ve met owns a bullet company in Perth and his knee is going and his back needs surgery.

I don't have 12.5K to drop on a Mark 8, but we all saw it with Covid, and now the Protests, and the who knows whats going to happen come November, clearly states think they can stop online ammo ordering, which means Local shops (who love infringing because it means more money in their pockets) jack up prices. Having the ability to create the projectile maybe MORE then worthwhile in the not so distant future. 

[DJRyan13]

I called 4 metal recycling places in Austin to see if they deal in lead.... none dealt in lead. One told me, “is it even valuable? well no one uses it for anything anymore so not sure why it would be expensive”. 
 

so, I thought about it a bit and thought the lead prices have really gotten insane over last decade. Not blaming Rotometal but they are way overpriced IMO. 
 

There are some folks on castboolits who will do better in price. Do NOT buy on EBay, etc. Had to flux my pot with sulphor for the first time after using some old lead I got on EBay years ago. Sulphur is good for a number of impurities including zinc. Get yourself a mask with eye protection if using any flux like that. Preferably with 3M acid, vapor filter number 60923. The flux vapors can be nasty especially those from sulphur. 
 

The master caster comes with a handbook for casting geared towards commercial casting. It’s a good read (but a little dated). 
 

a nice set of leather (I like deerskin) gloves...

 

a nice handbook for loading cast bullets like Lyman. 
 

face shield for the tinsel fairy (who can come anytime). 
 

some don’t cast with gloves or a face shield. I like my face... even if the wife is sick of it. 

[Styro]

On 6/7/2020 at 3:14 PM, mikey_golds said:

If you live in a state that has background checks for ammo and no online sales this becomes worth it instantly


 

More power to you. But you don't need such an expensive reloading machine to load ammo in California for your own use.  Check out what Hornady has to offer for much much less money.

[MikeyScuba]

2 hours ago, mikey_golds said:

I don't have 12.5K to drop on a Mark 8, but we all saw it with Covid, and now the Protests, and the who knows whats going to happen come November, clearly states think they can stop online ammo ordering, which means Local shops (who love infringing because it means more money in their pockets) jack up prices. Having the ability to create the projectile maybe MORE then worthwhile in the not so distant future. 

I get that, as I finally have all the pieces I need to finally start putting my Evo together.  I only went that route as it was either a Mark7’d 1100 or bite the proverbial bullet and go all out for a few extra K.  Currently loading ~40-50k a year by hand on a 650

 

as far as casting goes I’m going to see what quotes I get for 2000lbs of alloy for but unless it’s ~50% of what I’m paying for finished product I’m not seeing the value.  Politics aside

[Intheshaw1]

I get the politics argument, but I would think they would look to regulate powder and primers before bullets. Maybe take that 12k and buy a ton of powder and primers and then buy 2-3 years of bullets if it's a major concern.

 

This latest run on reloading supplies is my first since I started reloading last year. What I saw was everything get sold out but bullets coming back in stock first, if that's any indication of future runs.

[Thetimb]

20 hours ago, Intheshaw1 said:

I get the politics argument, but I would think they would look to regulate powder and primers before bullets. Maybe take that 12k and buy a ton of powder and primers and then buy 2-3 years of bullets if it's a major concern.

 

This latest run on reloading supplies is my first since I started reloading last year. What I saw was everything get sold out but bullets coming back in stock first, if that's any indication of future runs.

 

 

I didn't have any issues with powder/bullets during covid. I got 16 lbs of tight group and 1k of 9m JHP with 0 issues or price hikes. 

[dannyd]

One thing for anyone looking to cast bullets.  You don't have to use Hard Cast Lead use can use 12 to 14 bn and a good lube just fine.   Hard Cast and Hard lube is mainly uses because of shipping.  This will save you some money but the only real way to save money is to stop shooting.  

[chevrofreak]

On 5/16/2020 at 11:36 AM, mayassa said:

Wow, I am surprised you are still waiting on it.  

Just got my shipping notification today. 

[Absocold]

I finally ran out of the wheel weights I got for free just by asking at mechanic shops 20 years ago. Now they all say they are contracted to scrap dealers and can't even sell them to me any more when they used to just dump them in the trash (or give them to people like me). Hardly matters, most wheel weights are steel or zinc nowadays.

 

Tried all sorts of other places for lead, you've prolly heard of most of them, those are drying up too. So, what's the answer? SAILBOATS. Buy scrap sailboats for pennies, often they're free if you agree to remove it. The keel is solid lead on many of the small to medium sized ones. Cut the lead up with a chainsaw or you'll need a crane, check the bilges and dead spaces in the hull bottom for lead ballast ingots too, sell the anchor locally, any brass fittings go on ebay, the rest goes to the dump. Me and a buddy spent a week chopping up a small yacht but we split what the boat specs say was over 7 tons of lead. It's a little bit softer than hardball but with a water quench after casting it's almost perfect.

[dansedgli]

Does using a chainsaw really work to cut lead?

 

My range has steel backstop and the lead in the corner between it and the ground is rock hard and I need to work out how to get it out. 

 

A small jackhammer didnt work but a small chainsaw might get it done. 

 

 

 

 

[ExStreetWalker]

15 hours ago, Absocold said:

I finally ran out of the wheel weights I got for free just by asking at mechanic shops 20 years ago. Now they all say they are contracted to scrap dealers and can't even sell them to me any more when they used to just dump them in the trash (or give them to people like me). Hardly matters, most wheel weights are steel or zinc nowadays.

 

Tried all sorts of other places for lead, you've prolly heard of most of them, those are drying up too. So, what's the answer? SAILBOATS. Buy scrap sailboats for pennies, often they're free if you agree to remove it. The keel is solid lead on many of the small to medium sized ones. Cut the lead up with a chainsaw or you'll need a crane, check the bilges and dead spaces in the hull bottom for lead ballast ingots too, sell the anchor locally, any brass fittings go on ebay, the rest goes to the dump. Me and a buddy spent a week chopping up a small yacht but we split what the boat specs say was over 7 tons of lead. It's a little bit softer than hardball but with a water quench after casting it's almost perfect.

 

There has to be antimony in the lead for water quenching to work.  Pure lead won't harden with a water quench.