ESP question

[Stafford]

Normally starting hammer cocked with the safety on. However, what about unloaded starts on a table or barrel? I'm guessing you just put the mag in, rack the slide and engage the targets. I'm guessing that no safety is going to be involved in those scenarios. Correct?

[Paul-the new guy]

correct, slide forward hammer down

[Jim Watson]

Yup.  Every once in a while somebody will try to sneak in a cocked or half cocked gun to ease the effort on an unloaded start, but an alert SO will make him drop the hammer.

[Malarky112]

On 1/8/2020 at 3:07 PM, Jim Watson said:

Yup.  Every once in a while somebody will try to sneak in a cocked or half cocked gun to ease the effort on an unloaded start, but an alert SO will make him drop the hammer.

I like to try and start with the slide locked back and see if they catch it.

[SSGGlock]

5 hours ago, Malarky112 said:

I like to try and start with the slide locked back and see if they catch it.

I’m sure some people have tried.

[Arlin]

Where does it state, in the rule book, that the start position is slide forward and hammer down?

 

[MikeRussell]

Unlike USPSA, IDPA does not specify a start position other than the default holstered with any applicable safeties engaged. Everything else must be lined out in the stage brief if it's a non-standard start. So...if it says "unloaded on the table," then an unloaded gun anywhere on the table suffices (slide forward, slide locked, center of the table, off to one side, etc); however, if the stage brief says "unloaded, slide forward, trigger guard on the mark" then it better be unloaded, slide forward, trigger guard on the mark.

 

Will you get accused of being a gamer if you lock the slide back and put it in a preferred easy reach rather than in the center with the slide forward? Probably, but it IS a game.

[Ontos]

On 1/8/2020 at 2:07 PM, Jim Watson said:

Yup.  Every once in a while somebody will try to sneak in a cocked or half cocked gun to ease the effort on an unloaded start, but an alert SO will make him drop the hammer.

I don’t even see why people think this helps. You still have to rack the slide.

[SGT_Schultz]

On 1/11/2020 at 11:20 AM, MikeRussell said:

Unlike USPSA, IDPA does not specify a start position other than the default holstered with any applicable safeties engaged. Everything else must be lined out in the stage brief if it's a non-standard start. So...if it says "unloaded on the table," then an unloaded gun anywhere on the table suffices (slide forward, slide locked, center of the table, off to one side, etc); however, if the stage brief says "unloaded, slide forward, trigger guard on the mark" then it better be unloaded, slide forward, trigger guard on the mark.

 

Will you get accused of being a gamer if you lock the slide back and put it in a preferred easy reach rather than in the center with the slide forward? Probably, but it IS a game.

 

This is the correct answer.

 

Those who said the slide must be closed and the hammer down can't back that up with a rule.

[Racinready300ex]

35 minutes ago, Ontos said:

I don’t even see why people think this helps. You still have to rack the slide.

 

If the hammer is cocked it will take less effort to pull the slide back. It's minor, but it's something and that's why people will do it.

[Jim Watson]

I can see we are going to have to start writing IDPA CoFs like USPSA with about three "onlys" per sentence. l 

 

[SGT_Schultz]

17 hours ago, Jim Watson said:

I can see we are going to have to start writing IDPA CoFs like USPSA with about three "onlys" per sentence. l 

 

 

Why don't you guys just admit it's only a game and clean up your rulebook so it's clear and unambiguous?  In this particular case (Stafford's question) defining in the rulebook that firearm start conditions apply always and regardless of where the firearm is actually located at the start, unless modified by the WSB, would fix the issue

 

I'm not telling you to just be USPSA lite, but your rulebook is a hot mess and USPSA's rulebook's structure and logical consistency is something y'all should look at.

 

In the meantime, it's fun to really study your rulebook and match admin guide to find those inconsistencies and gaps to game stages, and then watching SOs faces go blank when I challenge them to back up their PE with a rule.

Edited November 26, 2020 by SGT_Schultz

[Ontos]

46 minutes ago, SGT_Schultz said:

 

Why don't you guys just admit it's only a game and clean up your rulebook so it's clear and unambiguous?  In this particular case (Stafford's question) defining in the rulebook that firearm start conditions apply always and regardless of where the firearm is actually located at the start, unless modified by the WSB, would fix the issue

 

I'm not telling you to just be USPSA lite, but your rulebook is a hot mess and USPSA's rulebook's structure and logical consistency is something y'all should look at.

 

In the meantime, it's fun to really study your rulebook and match admin guide to find those inconsistencies and gaps to game stages, and then watching SOs faces go blank when I challenge them to back up their PE with a rule.

The last sentence is where it’s at. I’ve had SO’s tell me I was getting a PE because “Well, you were really supposed to do it like ______”

 

Don’t care how you wanted me to do it... If you wanted everyone to do it like that you should have put it in the WSB.  Not going to take a PE for it.  

[Diver123]

Honestly putting it in the WSB doesnt even mean you have to do it that way. As long as you dont break any rules you can do it any way you want. Some people feel that because they put words into the WSB it has to be that way. The rule book is a mess and it appears it doesnt matter to HQ. The refusal to address horrible inconsistencies has shown a complete lack of care by them.  

[DirkD]

On 1/8/2020 at 3:07 PM, Jim Watson said:

Yup.  Every once in a while somebody will try to sneak in a cocked or half cocked gun to ease the effort on an unloaded start, but an alert SO will make him drop the hammer.

If it doesn't say slide forward hammer down in the stage brief, you can start slide locked back or hammer cocked.