Area 5 Match Results -- Scoring Error

[Carmoney]

(I decided to start a new topic to clarify the record on the match results, partially because I don't want to inhibit the world-class trash talk that is developing over on the other thread.....)

Cliff Walsh is the winner of the 2005 Area 5 Championship.

After getting home this morning I went back through my yellow sheets and discovered that the score enterers had missed assessing one of the two penalties I had incurred on Stage 10. After changing plans midstream through the stage(always a bad idea!) I managed to pop the clam-shell no-shoot on its way up with the last bullet I had in my gun. So that's 20 points in penalties I should have been given (10 for the no-shoot, 10 for the miss on the non-disappearing target behind it), and the results only had me down for 10.

I called Cliff while he was sitting at the Louisville airport and told him about this, he wanted me to wait and let him check his sheets against the USPSA site results to make sure there was no offsetting error. I just heard from Cliff a little bit ago, everything else is correct.

So here's how mine should look for Stage 10: 143 pts, -20 in penalties, 21.95 seconds = 5.6036 h.f. So my percentage of Sam's first-place on the stage should have been 85.52%, for 128.2836 stage points. This means my total match points should have been 1116.3514, which is 99.35% of Cliff's 1123.6264. (Still not bad for a new guy against a bona fide master of the wheelgun, right??!)

I've already talked with Lee Leonard and Chuck Bradley about the mistake, and they politely explained that it may not be possible to make this correction on the official results, due to the one-hour rule. However, I am going to contact Sedro directly with all of this information, and ask that they make the correction.

Regardless of what they do, I am sending out Cliff's plaque, medals, and check to him in tomorrow's mail so he will have them by the end of the week. And to those participants in the point series--if this mistake (or the additional entry error which I understand Sam Keen found on his sheets also) affects our standings in the point series, I'm sure we can all agree that we'll use the correct numbers and make sure that the right competitor gets recognized at the end of the year.

Now--before anybody gets all overwhelmed with sentiment and sensitivity and thinks I need some big compliment for my honesty and magnanimity--please don't. This is simply the way we do things in the revolver division, and the way things are handled between friends. So instead, join me in congratulating Cliff Walsh, El Conquistador, on his great match win at Area 5!

(Now back to the fun thread!)

Mike

Edited September 26, 2005 by Carmoney

[Airedale]

Commendable as always Mike.

Dave

[redmist10]

Too cool

[Gary Stevens]

Nice show Mike. That is the way it should be in all of the divisions.

Gary

[Three Glock Mike]

Nice gesture!

I had the same thing happen to me at the Mid-West IDPA regional last year. They use Excel instead of a scoring program, and although I had checked my stage scores and they were correct, the ranking was wrong (by like .1 sec). This was the difference betweeen 1st and 2nd place.

Steph Hobson was nice enough to give me the first place trophy even though the MD refused to change the rankings later.

[cliffwalsh]

I can't take all the goodwill bs of the revolver division............

.....................where the hell is my GLOCK!!!!!!!!!

[Jerry V]

Talk about leading by example......way to go Mike

Stuff like this makes you proud to be a wheelgunner

Congratulations Cliff

I can't take all the goodwill bs of the revolver division............

.....................where the hell is my GLOCK!!!!!!!!!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

.....been hanging around Dan lately ? ..... must a glock virus going around infecting wheelgunners

[R112mercer]

Sportsmanship like that shown by Mike is one (a big one) of many reasons I play this game in general and with a wheelgun in particular.

[Tom Balko]

Nicely done Mike,,,,, but magnanimity?

That's almost as hard to say as alunimuminum

Congrats too on the MN section match.

[pskys2]

Gee Mike does this mean you'll soon be shooting a .357 magdanimity? Forgot you're an ex Bowler, so it'd be a .44.

Good show Mike, being that kind of stand up guy I'm sure will stand in the memory of those who really matter, your kids, especially Sam. Course it might make it hard for him to be cut throat in the Corporate World. But, I was always taught that selling out may help your wallet a little, but scar your soul forever.

Let FNG Carmoney forever now be known as GG Carmoney.

Dave

[spook]

Mike and Cliff, you are both Champions! Cliif, good shooting man. And Mike, well, I guess I won't even have to tell ya, but I will anyways. That, my friend, is sportsmanship conduct!!!

We have two winners

[pskys2]

YMW CONGRATULATIONS!

It gets confusing just when you think you know someone (forcefeeding brewskis to you, so low), they do something GOOD!

Now if we can just get more local activity and start pressing each other, maybe Jerry M. will have to start looking over his shoulder. He is a Senior Shooter Now!, Damn I will be next year, too.

[Nemo]

Muchos Congrats Cliff!!

Car$: Our sport is better today because of you. ¡Gracias!

[Keith]

Way to go Cliff!

And Mike. What can we say?

In the past I have never worried about verifying my results, too much. But, along with this incident, the last month has made me decide to pay more attention because of penalties that showed up on results that should not have been there. After shooting the MN sectional Saturday and checking the results on the wall I noticed 75 penalty points on one stage that I did not earn. Luckily I noticed this before Sunday and had them removed. (Mike still won that stage)

[chuckbradley]

Just got official word from the powers that be, Area 5 director and Dave Thomas. The scores will stand as is, officially. The one hour rule has passed and we cannot set a precedent of changing results after the alloted time set by the rules.

I have to say Mike is a true sportsman.

The way the 1 hour rule is you need to hang around to verify scores when they are posted. I think in this case they did but missed it also. With 3000+ score sheets to enter there is bound to be mistakes. Today we have the internet and posted scores each night by 8:00pm. Maybe we need to revisit the one hour rule to apply to todays technology. Have the finals posted to the internet and then give one hour so even those that leave can check them. A method to contact stats would have to be made available with this option. There are several options but the one hour rule assumes all that care will stay to verify while in reality the majority either shoots previous days or leaves when they are done. Sorry it happened.

[Carmoney]

OK, Cliff--it looks like I kicked your ass after all.

(just kidding.)

Think I'm a true sportsman, Chuck?--HA!--Should have seen me at the post office this morning. Every time I went to put dang ol' Cliff's USPSA President's Medal in the priority mail box, this feeling would come over me and I'd crouch in the corner and snarl, "Precioussssss......it wants the preciousssssss......." Finally after about an hour of that I sealed up the box and dropped it in the slot. (Sniff.....)

Edited September 28, 2005 by Carmoney

[shred]

FWIW, the WS did an 'internet 1-hour' period. They posted the stage results and if you weren't at the range, you had an hour to e-mail them a correction.

[Rob Boudrie]

The Area 7 procedure has been to start the 1 hour period at 11PM on the Wednesday after the match is over, ending at midnight. We do, of course, make scores available immedately after the match is over at the clubhouse and on USPSA.ORG continuously prior to the start of the official one hour period.

The only works if you aren't going to have an "at the club" awards ceremony.

Edited September 28, 2005 by Rob Boudrie

[Vericio_Brazil]

I am writing here for the first time. Cliff invited me to join this Forum after the WS XIV. I think my english needs to improve a little bit. After these explanations...

Mike,

Congratulations for your honesty! Today it is very difficult to find people like you. We try to keep this idea amog the Brazilian wheelgunners: the friendship is more important than the match. Everubody who has different ideas (like who dont care about to help others wheelgunners if necessary, for example) is not welcome in our squad. They almost always stop to shoot Revolver (Thank God!)

Cliff,

Good job friend! You shoot very well and you deserve this win. Next month we will have the National Championship in Brazil and I hope to get the first place (like you man). Congratulations once more!

[cliffwalsh]

Allison,

Good to hear from you. Your English is fine; keep posting. Thanks for the kind words.

Mike is a good guy and a lot of fun to shoot with. We were pretty even all day, he was faster on most stages but caught a few penalties here and there to let me catch up. We had a fun day and as far as I'm concerned nobody lost (except Sam).

For those that don't know Allison, he was #8 at the world shoot and one heck of a good shooter. All 4 shooters from Brazil were very good and really nice guys. We had a great time all week.

Keep us posted on what happens with the revolver shooters down is South America.

Good luck at the Nationals!!

ps. Tell Raul not to forget my CD....

Cliff

[Vericio_Brazil]

Cliff,

The Brazilian Team also liked a lot to shoot with you and Lisa. We also had a great week and we learned a lot. Unfortunatelly we didnt have a lot of time (and oportunities) to talk with Jerry (of course we are great fans of him) and Patrick. All the wheelgunners from USA are invited to visit us. Have you received my last messages (with some photos and a map)?

I have started another topic about the Nationals. If you can, take a look.

I will ask Raul your CD and I will send it to you as soon as possible, ok?

[SmittyFL]

We had a fun day and as far as I'm concerned nobody lost

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What kind of sesame street crap is that? I thought you revo guys were tough.

Congrats to all of ya.

[Thomas Moore]

Getting off topic but....

Rob, Area 7 has by far the best procedure for the 1 hour rule. I was going to chime in about Area 7 but you beat me to it.

This is the only way to go. How can someone check their scores if they have to drive 7 hours back home. There is no way anyone should have to hang around 3 to 5 hours after the match to wait for scores to be posted.

Mike, you're a true sportsman.

[chuckbradley]

Getting off topic but....

Rob, Area 7 has by far the best procedure for the 1 hour rule. I was going to chime in about Area 7 but you beat me to it.

This is the only way to go. How can someone check their scores if they have to drive 7 hours back home. There is no way anyone should have to hang around 3 to 5 hours after the match to wait for scores to be posted.

Mike, you're a true sportsman.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

As Rob said, this is a good way to insure no mistakes but if you are doing an on sight awards it is not feasible. Only way to do this is to not have on site awards. Its a trade off either way.

I am not sure starting the one hour rule several days after the match is what the intent of the rule was. But I dont have a probelm with it. I am not sure you can, by the rules, post the scores and then say the one hour rules start until some point at a later date. I think it means once posted there is one hour to protest.

Again maybe the rules on this need to be revisited.

[Bill Nesbitt]

Last year at Area 5 I was mistakenly scored as major when I was shooting minor. A couple of days after the match was over I noticed the error and e-mailed the match director who changed my scores. I dropped down one place. It wasn't very close to the top though. I just checked the scores on the USPSA web site and they are correct.